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  #1  
Old October 6th, 2009, 05:46 PM
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Does it agitate anyone else...

When someone posts in the 'vehicles for sale' section with a rebuild/import/whatever and someone (usually new) always feels the need to suggest some sort of legal impropriety?

This recent one comes to mind:
"so, it's really a VIN swap... right?"
but there are many other examples.

I know, free speech, buyer beware, etc. but why do some folks feel the need?... if it is to warn potential buyers, that is the most understandable yet that does not seem to really be the motive.

maybe it just errks me
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  #2  
Old October 6th, 2009, 06:00 PM
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Yeah, its bad form, but I try not to move rapidly to delete it unless it starts to get out of control. With the truck in question, most people were just asking questions. I'm not likely to do anything about it unless the seller complains or someone is completely sabotaging the ad.
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  #3  
Old October 6th, 2009, 06:29 PM
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Yah. Mostly it seems like whingeing from wannabes who don't want others to have fun vehicles, or shady dime-dropping by those on this list and elsewhere who mistakenly think they can corner the legal non-NAS spec defender market.

It has been going on for decades on this list and others. More with Defenders than any other models. Now that its legal to bring in 90's and 110's it will hopefully subside somewhat. You never heard people getting uppity about <25yr. old SIII's coming in during the 1990's unless they were Stage Ones or Hi Caps that were clearly too new. I think it is because of the lack of availability and associated inflated high prices. In a few years it is going to start to be less of an issue as these trucks become older and older. Be interesting to see what if any new emissions standard is in place in 2021 when '96 vehicles turn 25 and non-OBDII compliant 1996 trucks become legal to import. Then what??

Quote:
Originally Posted by D90user
When someone posts in the 'vehicles for sale' section with a rebuild/import/whatever and someone (usually new) always feels the need to suggest some sort of legal impropriety?

maybe it just errks me
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  #4  
Old October 6th, 2009, 06:32 PM
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It rubs me the wrong way. We are all gown up ( specially if we are dropping 30K plus on a vehicle, it is our responsibility to do the homework as buyers.

If someone did not do it, and tries to unload his mistake so be it, we are not the police.

At the risk to be LABELED " ENVIOUS without a 110 " many people try to maintain the UNIQUE Value by discouraging the potential buyer of an import, or call the authorities on those who import them or convert them , etc.

I know , maybe I am having a bad headache, but why not just LET IT BE?

Thanks for allowing my rant
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  #5  
Old October 6th, 2009, 06:36 PM
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Not to be picky here but if you read the descriptin of the truck "All VINs , plates, and stickers in place" then what does that mean? I dont think the poster was trying to say it was not legal he was just stating the obvious(which I am more botherd buy than anyithing). If you have almost every part new or all new parts it is a vin swap. How could it not be?
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  #6  
Old October 6th, 2009, 06:51 PM
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IMHO, if you want to sell an "less than 100% legal" 110 on an enthusiast website, you should be upfront about what it is and how you did it or else someone should call you out on it or at least be willing to explain offline to potential buyers. The reason people come here to D-90.com is to get information. Even in for sale ads that should be the case. I know ads here are not approved by D-90.com or whatnot, but there should be some sort of filtering effort. If some idiot buys and gets burned on ebay or autotrader then fine, but if it is here and I can point out the obvious (to me) and save someone some future issues, then I will. Of course, if someone wants to buy a less than legal and knows it what it is, I am fine with that too. I just don't want to see people blindsided.

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  #7  
Old October 6th, 2009, 07:01 PM
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what pisses me off is when people put RARE in their ads, we know that already .
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  #8  
Old October 6th, 2009, 09:16 PM
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Michael- Read the 'what is legal thread' (which is where all discussions of that short should take place)... his is pretty damn close.

Ron- I agree with Gustavo if someone is going to drop big $$ on a D they should know what they are getting themselves into.
If d90 source had any type of liability that is a separate issue all together and that would trump all else. But it really has zero liability in this so it is kind of a moot point. The seller should of course be willing to discuss anything with a potential buyer, but for a non-potential buyer to lambast them is what JimC said, bad form.

Follow-up Post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnsD90
what pisses me off is when people put RARE in their ads, we know that already .
I hate that too... just happened the other day here.
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  #9  
Old October 6th, 2009, 11:00 PM
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Steve, I have read the "What is legal thread". Every post more than once. I was responding to your post,in the misc chit chat section. Why did you not post your comments in the "What is legal thread" since it was directed at a Vin swap comment? My guess is that you did not because in your mind it is just chit chat. Just like my post.
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  #10  
Old October 7th, 2009, 12:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpsteil
just chit chat.
yep.
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  #11  
Old October 7th, 2009, 02:21 AM
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I don't know, I mean things like this are fine with me.

http://www.defendersource.com/forum/...ad.php?t=20682

Others where it is 2005 Defender 110 and does not indicate how it is titled, what was done, etc. need to have more info or at least a call me and I will explain disclaimer.
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  #12  
Old October 7th, 2009, 02:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnsD90
what pisses me off is when people put RARE in their ads, we know that already .
We get that here in the UK.....hmmmm, yeah, defenders are rare here... NOT!
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  #13  
Old October 7th, 2009, 04:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evilfij
I don't know, I mean things like this are fine with me.

http://www.defendersource.com/forum/...ad.php?t=20682

Others where it is 2005 Defender 110 and does not indicate how it is titled, what was done, etc. need to have more info or at least a call me and I will explain disclaimer.
oooh, me likes that...and pretty well disclaimed. I have no problem buying grey market. seems to me that vin swapping with respect to 110's/defenders or any other car is pretty subjective. If the law doesn't designate one particular part that can never be replaced without a vin change, then it's fuzzy regardless.

If I am buying a D, and then registering it in my state and they allow it or don't, then it's my risk. as long as the seller let's me know what the VIN # translates to with respect to year and model in the ad. And as the above example states, a 71' 110 rebuilt with later year parts is pretty upfront to me. Better would be to say "registered vin as 71 109 rebuilt with 98' parts".

the fact that most parts on these vehicles over time are all replaced with later years, is what makes Land Rover's claim of most vehicles ever producted are still on the road, and gives us moral high ground in matter-of-fact environmental impact arguments. There aren't many series on the road that haven't had every part replaced at some point since production.

And yes, I agree with the assessment of using Rare. If I can buy it new from RN or AB right now, it's not rare.
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  #14  
Old October 7th, 2009, 06:19 AM
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Feelers are what annoys me. How about this ?

I am considering selling my very rare, but legally imported, 1983 110. Originally rhd, but converted to lhd by undocumented illegal gnomes. Currently powered by an illegal, but correct and equally rare, land rover tdi drive train, also installed by said gnomes. Pulls like a train (always thought that line was laughable). Has been offroad both in the Europe and the US and is therefore of no use to posers. Truck has only been mine for the past two years so I cannot state it hasn't been smoked in or farted in for the prior 24 yrs. Has been denied insurance by two carriers (1 because it has a snorkle, the other because I don't keep it in a locked garage when not in use).
Presumably has previously been illegally parked-so unforseen liability conveys. Is heavily kitted out and presumeably has items you will find distastefull. Has never been in a Ralph Lauren ad. No I don't have all receipts, they turned into a wet gooey mess when I drove through water 4.5 feet deep and the truck took on 20 gallons or so. Disinterested or financially unfortunate parties need not call.
Selling to finance another illegal project, but don't need to so don't lowball me !
Can't decide what I want for it so make me an offer after all this is a feeler for something not really for sale.

Rant over. I'll go back under my rock for two months.
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  #15  
Old October 7th, 2009, 06:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maryland 110

Rant over. I'll go back under my rock for two months.
Solid plan my friend.
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  #16  
Old October 7th, 2009, 07:25 AM
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Doug gets my vote on this one- is that the same rock the proported gnomes wheeled over in Europe?? But if you want a nice Tdi 110, see the for sale section :-)
I gotta refrain here, as it will turn into a repeat of the 'what's legal' thread. But I must say, a coiler Series by definition is not Series, or Land Rover would not have continued with Series designation as documented by Land Rover- so is this truely more 'legal'? But then, there were diesel Series albeit not coilers- where does it stop?
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  #17  
Old October 7th, 2009, 10:27 AM
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Legal and correct CT110 in flea market.....
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  #18  
Old October 7th, 2009, 10:42 AM
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Last words from me ( wearing a nomex suit , so flame away if you wish ).

I have to tell you what gets to me as hypocracy , how many NAS D90 have Galvy chassis, or TDI engines, or have been turned into 110?

Now I think it is pretty poor that those purist who criticize a VIN swap, are indeed driving something similar or sell such parts under a loophole disclaimmer like for Off Road Only.

The point is, there is absolutely no diffence on a rebuild with all new parts ( yes you will have to place your OLD VIN Plate on a NEWER Bulkhead ) than swapping chassis on your 90 or extending to 110 or putting a Tdi.

Done

Knocking at Dougs rock with a cup of coffee
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  #19  
Old October 7th, 2009, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rugbier
Last words from me ( wearing a nomex suit , so flame away if you wish ).

I have to tell you what gets to me as hypocracy , how many NAS D90 have Galvy chassis, or TDI engines, or have been turned into 110?

Now I think it is pretty poor that those purist who criticize a VIN swap, are indeed driving something similar or sell such parts under a loophole disclaimmer like for Off Road Only.

The point is, there is absolutely no diffence on a rebuild with all new parts ( yes you will have to place your OLD VIN Plate on a NEWER Bulkhead ) than swapping chassis on your 90 or extending to 110 or putting a Tdi.

I disagree. I don't agree that a VIN swap and a built up project should be looked at in the same light.
My take is that if you put in the wrench time on whatever project you built (Tdi swap, 90 to a 110 or whatever) then fine. You rebuilt your truck to a better standard or something different and hopefully had fun doing it. If then you need to sell it, fine.
However, if all you did was pull the VIN plate off a Series III and screw or rivet that VIN plate to a new Defender then I think you deserve the flaming you will likely get from the board.
I think most people here can clearly see the difference between a cool project that was "built" and a truck that got a VIN swap, but having said that I never post such things in people's for sale adverts. It is up to the buyer to become educated.
Just my .02.

Love Doug's post.
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  #20  
Old October 7th, 2009, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnsD90
Solid plan my friend.
There's one in every crowd.

Follow-up Post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by rovertrader
Doug gets my vote on this one- is that the same rock the proported gnomes wheeled over in Europe??
Thanks Dale, Gustavo and Mike. Guess you have to have spent 100's of hours with wrenches and a mig in your hands, put 10's of thousands of dollars @ risk for something you have never seen, and have dealt with the types I reference to understand my humor. Glad you guys got it.
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