Do you run your 300tdi on biodiesel? How do you like it? - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old September 4th, 2008, 01:45 PM
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Carl Jonsson
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Do you run your 300tdi on biodiesel? How do you like it?

Do you have a 300tdi engine that you're running on biodiesel? I just got my NAS 300tdi D90 about three weeks ago and I've started running it on B99 (99% biodiesel). Initially I did it because I was worried I would have trouble passing the emissions testing that we have here in Oregon. I also replaced the catalytic converter which was shot. On Tuesday morning I went in to take the test and I passed with flying colors. The CO2 standard here in OR is 1.5% CO2. My first idle was 0.01%(!) and my 2nd idle (at a higher rpm) was 0.1%! Pretty darn clean emissions I'd say.

I'm just curious if anyone has been using biodiesel for a longer period of time and how you like it. Did you change the fuel filter after the first couple of tanks? I've heard that B99 is so lubricating and solvent that it can take some of the deposits off in the system and therefore clog up the filter initially.

Here in Portland there are plenty of stations with Biodiesel all over town. I also know that the local burger chain called Burgerville as well as Kettle Chips both sell their spent oil to the refinery here in OR that makes biodiesel. In addition, my father-in-law up in WA started making it so when I go visit I get free refills!

Since I'm new to my 300tdi D90 I'd be curious to hear from those of you who've had yours longer, especially if you've been using Biodiesel.

I have attached a picture of my new Defender.

Thanks!

Carl
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  #2  
Old September 4th, 2008, 01:48 PM
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mark kellgren
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I occasionally use B20. slightly less performance, but it is also more expensive than diesel, making it the most expensive full in Charlotte, NC, so I have since abandoned it. I do add a tank periodically to keep the fuel lines clean, so that I dont' have alot of buildup if I ever want to go back to it. Yes, you do need to replace your filter shortly after you start using it for the first time, but not sure how soon. when your filter gets clogged, you start losing performance, and that's your tip. can vary with the vehicle and frequency of driving. Others may have more experience to share.
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Old September 4th, 2008, 02:00 PM
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Carl Jonsson
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Difference in performance?

How much?
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  #4  
Old September 4th, 2008, 02:28 PM
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John B.
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I've run B20 in my 200TDI. No noticeable difference.
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  #5  
Old September 4th, 2008, 03:24 PM
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I have run B20 in both my disco 300tdi and my jeep 2.8 crd. Both run fine but fuel economy seems to suffer by a mile or so per gallon. I have not run B99 but it is my understanding that it does act as a cleaner and you should change your fuel filter after a few tanks and then again after maybe 5k miles etc.

off topic- great looking D90. did you do the conversion yourself?
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Old September 4th, 2008, 04:30 PM
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Jamie Austin
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Give Craig Reece a holler, this is what he does for his bread & butter... bio fuel.

craigreece@PlantDrive.com


http://www.plantdrive.com

i'm sure he runs his 100" hybrid Tdi rover on the stuff
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  #7  
Old September 4th, 2008, 06:00 PM
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Jim Cheney
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I've run all blends (mostly b99 or b100) in my tdi for a total of around 10-15k miles. I ran it on a new motor after installing all new fuel system, so there were no deposits to dissolve. I bought some fuel from some places that did leave fatty deposits in the filter ruining them within a hundred miles, but thats more of a fuel quality issue.

The only problem I've had aside from the bio eating the paint on the aux tank is that it dissolved the fuel return lines on the top of the engine - they must have been a natural rubber product. I replaced them with viton and have had no issues since.

I don't notice any appreciable difference in performance, but economy suffers a bit when towing. I don't think the tdi is really tuned for max performance so to speak, and doesnt seem to respond as badly to differing fuel qualities, as say, my friends Duramax which allegedly drops 15-20% in economy on bio.

YMMV
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  #8  
Old May 4th, 2010, 03:59 PM
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is anybody else having issues with fuel system parts being dissolved? I'm thinking of running a combo of SVO/Petrodiesel (while its warm out) and want to avoid some common problems.
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  #9  
Old May 4th, 2010, 04:25 PM
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Carl Jonsson
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Danny. I have been running all blends; B99, B20 and right now I am running B50. A Land Rover mechanic that I know locally warned me that he has rebuilt quite a few fuel pumps due to corrosion. Not sure what blend they were using and what parts corroded. He recommended alternating between regular diesel and bio as you don't want it to sit in your fuel system for too long. If the fuel system was all viton® hoses (etc) it wouldn't be a problem but they aren't. I noticed my filler hose was starting to get soft and sweating after running consecutive tanks of B99. I would like to run B99 all summer long but nobody seems to know the long term effect on B99 in a Defender fuel system so I'm backing off. You'd be safe doing B20. B20 is supposedly better for your engine than regular diesel + additive. If there is anyone here who knows more about the long term effects on B99 on the Defender fuel system I'd sure like to learn about it. Does anyone knows what the parts are in the fuel pump that could corrode from B99?
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Old May 4th, 2010, 04:59 PM
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John B.
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Fuel lines are nylon which is fine. The fill hose is probably not the right stuff. The only other think to worry about is the lift ump and the injection pump seal.
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Old May 4th, 2010, 06:13 PM
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Carl Jonsson
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The Filler hose can be replaced. It's not cheap but its doable. How about the lift pump and injection seals? Can they be replaced with nylon or synthetic rubber components?

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Fuel lines are nylon which is fine. The fill hose is probably not the right stuff. The only other think to worry about is the lift ump and the injection pump seal.
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Old May 4th, 2010, 06:15 PM
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John B.
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No idea.... I believe the injection pump is not a problem (with a Viton seal) as they are a very common pump. No idea what material is used inside the lift pump. If it is a problem, I'm sure you could go electric.
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Old May 7th, 2010, 09:57 AM
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cool thanks for the response Manimal, I think my fuel filter is filling up, I'm noticing a little bit of performance loss, I'll change that out this weekend.
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  #14  
Old May 9th, 2010, 04:58 PM
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Carl Jonsson
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If you've just started running Bio and never done it before then you should change fuel filters more often. A lot of deposits will be dissolved. I swear it seems the engine runs smoother when i run bio vs regular. I haven't had any issues so far other than the sweaty filler hose.

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cool thanks for the response Manimal, I think my fuel filter is filling up, I'm noticing a little bit of performance loss, I'll change that out this weekend.
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Old April 13th, 2011, 05:52 PM
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just wanted to revisit the thread now that Bio 99 is about the same price as Dino diesel, at least here in Atl.
Are you guys still using Bio and if so what issues if any have arisen?
when I used B20 in my 300tdi Disco it ate through the fuel spill/return lines after just a few tanks.
I am bit worried that it could destroy the seals within the IP and fuel pump on my 200tdi. I would like to run at least B20 though, if folks have had no ill affects.
BTW my local oil co. is charging 3.92 for diesel, B20 is $3.94 and B100 is $4.01
how does that compare to other areas?
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Old April 13th, 2011, 08:41 PM
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Carl Jonsson
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Your return lines must have been natural rubber. Nothing should degrade with the use of B20. Synthetic hoses and seals should not be effected even during long term use with B20. My filler hose started getting soft and sweaty after running continuous tanks of B99. B99 is extremely solvent so I only run it every once in a while to purge the system now. My return lines did started leaking after two years but that's the only thing I have had to replace. Perhaps they are not synthetic rubber? I have heard of fuel pumps having to be replaced from excessive biofuel use but I don't know if there's any truth to that or if it can be proven. Can anyone verify if there is natural rubber components or seals in the fuel pump and IP?

Quote:
Originally Posted by discotdi
Are you guys still using Bio and if so what issues if any have arisen?
when I used B20 in my 300tdi Disco it ate through the fuel spill/return lines after just a few tanks.
I am bit worried that it could destroy the seals within the IP and fuel pump on my 200tdi. I would like to run at least B20 though, if folks have had no ill affects.
BTW my local oil co. is charging 3.92 for diesel, B20 is $3.94 and B100 is $4.01
how does that compare to other areas?
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Old April 14th, 2011, 03:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimC View Post
I don't think the tdi is really tuned for max performance so to speak, and doesnt seem to respond as badly to differing fuel qualities
To say the least. People in the UK run 300TDi's on SVO, WVO, used motor oil, even used hydraulic oil. That's the beauty of the engine -- it will run on damn near anything that will flow and burn.

The injection pump is a Bosch VE, it has no problems with Bio or veg oil. Not sure about the lift pump, but a lot of people switch to an electric when they go to veg oil for reliability.
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  #18  
Old January 9th, 2014, 07:15 PM
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Manimal, I noticed you seem to have experience with biodiesel in a 300tdi, and may have been running it for some time now. I'm having a 300tdi fit into a Range Rover Classic here in Portland. I'm hoping you could clarify what updates are necessary, if any, to run B99. Thanks, look forward to running bio soon!
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  #19  
Old January 9th, 2014, 07:23 PM
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Carl Jonsson
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Any fuel lines that are rubber and not synthetic will have to be replaced with synthetic. I believe vehicles older than 95 are rubber? I would check your RR and find out. Other than that you're good to go. I didn't have to do anything as mine is a 95. I think there was regulation that 95 and on all vehicles had to have synthetic hoses. B99 is solvent and lubricant so if you've never run it in your vehicle you may want to give it a fresh fuel filter when you start as old deposits may loosen up and end up in the fuel filter. Other than that you're good to go.
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Old January 9th, 2014, 07:48 PM
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Ran a 300TDI on WVO cleaned with a centrifuge for years.
It's not quite bio-diesel...
After 2 years, the IP failed and would not produce enough pressure to start the engine.
The injectors also had to be replaced twice from coking up.

Last year switched to the Mercedes OM617 which is veg friendly and will run on any combustible oil.
Even ran on gasoline for about 5 miles when I ran out of fuel and put about a gallon of gas in until the next exit where I filled up with diesel.

Currently working on a 2 tank system 1 for diesel and 1 for WVO, so it can be started on diesel and when the WVO is warm enough switch over. The WVO filters and sedimenter are both heated.
Am actually putting in 2 heated WVO filters to be able to switch from a clogged WVO filter to a fresh WVO filter by the flip of a switch.

With a 300TDI, even with Bio-Diesel, I would still run 2 tanks which means 2 separate fuel systems 1 for diesel and 1 for bio-diesel if you plan to run bio-diesel consistently.
After working on TDIs that have been run on bio-diesel, they eventually form "chicken skin", but with a 2 tank system, the engine can still be started on diesel and switched to bio-diesel, then back to diesel again before shut down. Then the IP and injectors get cleaned out with diesel and don't gum up as badly from sitting all night filled with bio-fuel.
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