Diesel cars (or lack there of) rant - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old January 12th, 2011, 02:41 PM
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Diesel cars (or lack there of) rant

So I need a beater and I would like something small, diesel and all wheel drive with a manual transmission and somewhat reasonably priced.

This just does not exist in the US. You can about a dozen vehicles that are diesel in the US (except 3/4ton/1ton PUs and vans).

MB ML/GL/E/R = all auto, all expensive, the only one I would consider, the GL, starts at 60k+
BMW X5/335d = all auto (why!), 335d is RWD only and expensive as it starts at 42k and the X5 is auto and starts at 52k
Audi Q7/A3 = close, but no quattro or manual trans on the A3 tdi
VW: jetta/golf/touareg = closer, but only manuals are FWD jetta/golf and the touareg tdi (auto only) starts at 48k!

A diesel mini countryman, CRV, JK, even an accord (albeit FWD only) would be ideal. There is clearly a market (try finding a VW tdi in stock compared to a gas model), but none of the manufacturers bother.
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  #2  
Old January 12th, 2011, 02:48 PM
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Not only a rant about a lack of diesels...but a lack of AWD vehicles...

You could alway get an old Jetta TDI and put some wicked snow tires on....

My Mini Cooper did better that my wife's sport in all but the deepest of snow when I had Dunlop Wintersports on it...
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Old January 12th, 2011, 02:53 PM
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I'm sure Doug(Roving Beetle) will chime in here soon. He's building just what you're looking for Ron. A vintage Audi quattro with a VW 1.9L tdi. Hit him up, everything is always for sale.
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Old January 12th, 2011, 02:53 PM
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Yeah! What he said!

The fact that diesels always keep their value, and seem to always be on a wait list to get, clearly indicates demand exceeds supply.

I blame the government in not supporting diesel. The fact that foreign manufacturers have to go through all the work to certify a diesel with the EPA, and the cost of doing that, seems to be the hurdle. They should at least assess current market conditions as an exception by adopting EU standards in place of independent EPA certification for diesel imports for at least a couple years, to get real diesel demand verified. I'm sure foreign manufacturers would flood the market with diesels to gain a footprint in the US. Land Rover might even do it, if they didn't have to bear that US only expense as well.

I blame California for everything.
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Old January 12th, 2011, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EWR View Post
I'm sure Doug(Roving Beetle) will chime in here soon. He's building just what you're looking for Ron. A vintage Audi quattro with a VW 1.9L tdi. Hit him up, everything is always for sale.
I have enough cars with character (even the 06 lotus is british if you know what I mean). I want something that is an APPLIANCE. I was #1 on the waiting list at my local honda dealer for the accord diesel that was nixed.
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Old January 12th, 2011, 02:59 PM
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Jeep liberty? I think they are auto only but you can get a used diesel for not too much money...
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Old January 12th, 2011, 02:59 PM
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C'mon Ron, just drop a 300tdi into a RRC. Or, if you're too busy have Pendy do one for you. There is also the impending kits from Robert Davis in Va for the OM617. You can leave it auto or go to a R-380.
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Old January 12th, 2011, 03:04 PM
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Too much character.

Mini Countryman Diesel all4 would be about perfect.

------ Follow up post added January 12th, 2011 03:11 PM ------

Quote:
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Jeep liberty? I think they are auto only but you can get a used diesel for not too much money...
Too old and were POS.
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Old January 12th, 2011, 03:41 PM
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Ron, put four 8Ds and a forklift motor in the Lotus.
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Old January 12th, 2011, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
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There is clearly a market (try finding a VW tdi in stock compared to a gas model), but none of the manufacturers bother.
The real issue is the EPA and "particulate matter".
That is the killer of Euro diesels here in the USA.
The EPA has decided that particulate matter is more important than NO and other pollutants.
In Europe they run clean diesels, these meet green-house gas requirements, but they do not meet EPA particulate matter requirements. Particulate matter is what makes up "smog" and the EPA, and likely the CARB, all made the choice that it was the most important thing to focus on.
So manufactures can't just plop their Euro compliant diesels in cars. They have to add a lot of cap to scrub out the "matter" to get it to comply. This adds cost, etc etc etc.
In trucks with higher GVW they can use Euro diesels (like in a Dodge/MB Sprinter van), but for cars it is a different story.
The manufacture would have to design and install systems just for the USA, and as we have seen with other models and such, there just isn't a business model to make that happen, or at least there isn't yet.
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Old January 12th, 2011, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
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Too old and were POS.
too old? '07 is too old and you have a Defender? I thought this was to be a beater?


won't argue with the pos comment though... I wouldn't want one either...

(but it isn't too far off what you're looking for... you never specified you wanted it to be a GOOD car)
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Old January 12th, 2011, 04:02 PM
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Wasn't there a diesel (E 300D??) with 4-matic from Mercedes?

------ Follow up post added January 12th, 2011 04:04 PM ------

woops, just reread your original post. Older wouldn't be too expensive though, and at least comfortable...not suere if they're POS's mechanically once older, though.
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Old January 12th, 2011, 04:04 PM
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Wasn't there a diesel (E 300D??) with 4-matic from Mercedes?
Slushbox only.

I agree with Ron that I would want a car to be manual, but I like my trucks to be slushboxes. I plan to move south and won't care about awd/4x4 for a car in the future.
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Old January 12th, 2011, 04:35 PM
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Funny thing... I was discussing this same issues with others earlier this week.

As Mike stated, the real issue it's because the EPA regulations.

They got more strict in 2007 (maybe it was 2006... right after the last year Jeep Liberty CRD was sold here in the US). The US regulates nitrogen oxide (NOX) and emission of particulates. In Europe they regulate the green house gas (carbon dioxide (CO2)) emissions, so complying with U.S., NOX, regulations is problematic.
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Old January 12th, 2011, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECR View Post
The real issue is the EPA and "particulate matter".
...
The manufacture would have to design and install systems just for the USA, and as we have seen with other models and such, there just isn't a business model to make that happen, or at least there isn't yet.
And make you have to burn synthetic pee in your Benz...
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Old January 12th, 2011, 04:54 PM
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The urine- err, urea, is a pain, as it is acidic and about melts the paint. I have an '11 Ford 250 diesel, and about ran out of urea in Az last month. If you do run out, the truck locks down to 55 for a very brief time- enough to get out of traffic, then goes to idle. After being shut off, it will not start until filled with urea. I get to carry an extra 5 gals of piss in the tool box now...
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Old January 12th, 2011, 05:30 PM
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maybe just keep an extra large big-gulp topped off instead?

assuming your aim is any good....
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Old January 12th, 2011, 05:36 PM
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Ive got a Mazda B2600 extended cab pickup that I dropped a 4d56T into and then lost interest(110 got in the way)




Quote:
Originally Posted by evilfij View Post
So I need a beater and I would like something small, diesel and all wheel drive with a manual transmission and somewhat reasonably priced.

This just does not exist in the US. You can about a dozen vehicles that are diesel in the US (except 3/4ton/1ton PUs and vans).

MB ML/GL/E/R = all auto, all expensive, the only one I would consider, the GL, starts at 60k+
BMW X5/335d = all auto (why!), 335d is RWD only and expensive as it starts at 42k and the X5 is auto and starts at 52k
Audi Q7/A3 = close, but no quattro or manual trans on the A3 tdi
VW: jetta/golf/touareg = closer, but only manuals are FWD jetta/golf and the touareg tdi (auto only) starts at 48k!

A diesel mini countryman, CRV, JK, even an accord (albeit FWD only) would be ideal. There is clearly a market (try finding a VW tdi in stock compared to a gas model), but none of the manufacturers bother.
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  #19  
Old January 12th, 2011, 06:02 PM
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Link to all diesel cars in the US
http://www.practicalenvironmentalist...l-cars-usa.htm

Not many all wheel drive options

If you need a beater shitbox, why not a Kia or a Subie outback? Not diesel, but pretty good on gas and available in a stick and AWD.

My dad for some reason bought a Suzuki SX4? a couple years ago when gas went through the roof. Justified it by saying it paid for itself by using it instead of his V8 Sequoia going to and from work. Sold it later when gas prices went down.

I'm trying hard to convince my dad into getting a Disco TDI. He loves diesels.
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Old January 12th, 2011, 07:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rovertrader View Post
The urine- err, urea, is a pain, as it is acidic and about melts the paint. I have an '11 Ford 250 diesel, and about ran out of urea in Az last month. If you do run out, the truck locks down to 55 for a very brief time- enough to get out of traffic, then goes to idle. After being shut off, it will not start until filled with urea. I get to carry an extra 5 gals of piss in the tool box now...
Holy bajeezus, they make you do that in trucks now?
I had no idea...
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