Diesel cars (or lack there of) rant - Page 2 - Defender Source
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  #21  
Old January 12th, 2011, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rijosho View Post
Wasn't there a diesel (E 300D??) with 4-matic from Mercedes?

------ Follow up post added January 12th, 2011 04:04 PM ------

woops, just reread your original post. Older wouldn't be too expensive though, and at least comfortable...not suere if they're POS's mechanically once older, though.
Not auto and mostly were Station Wagon with 4-Matic, the sedan diesel were sans 4-Matic, although there are several S320 Diesel Grey Market cars in the east coast.

Ron... don't spit on me ..but Jeep has a wonderful diesel , manual and 4x4 starts around 40ish I think
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  #22  
Old January 12th, 2011, 08:48 PM
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Jetta TDI

Not AWD, but one of the best cars I've owned - 2002 Jetta TDI. Best tank was 56MPG, most were 44/48. Great ground clearance (for a car), did very well in snow with good tires.

My dream family wagon is a Eurovan Weekender TDI with 4-motion.


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  #23  
Old January 12th, 2011, 09:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evilfij View Post
So I need a beater and I would like something small, diesel and all wheel drive with a manual transmission and somewhat reasonably priced................. There is clearly a market (try finding a VW tdi in stock compared to a gas model), but none of the manufacturers bother.
I know you've (prob) already come to this conclusion but what about a late '90s-00's FWD VW TDI? with a set of snowtires and a floor jack it may eliminate the need (but not want) for AWD. I've never known anybody who had one who didn't love it.
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I blame the government in not supporting diesel.
me too
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I blame California for everything.
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Jeep liberty? I think they are auto only but you can get a used diesel for not too much money...
I like it, but mostly bc it was a US legal diesel, not really a great one. Also last time i looked the best I found that didn't look like it was used as a stunt vehicle was still $12K with like 85K on it
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too old? '07 is too old and you have a Defender?
I think they were only made 2005 and very few 2006, correct me if i'm wrong
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  #24  
Old January 12th, 2011, 10:49 PM
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I think they were only made 2005 and very few 2006, correct me if i'm wrong
I don't know the true answer to that but ebay has a number of them for '05-'06:

http://motors.shop.ebay.com/Cars-Tru...=p4506.c0.m282
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  #25  
Old January 12th, 2011, 11:14 PM
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I've gotta be honest, we've been really happy with my wife's CRD Grand Cherokee. They only made the CRD Grand for 2 years here in the States, '07 & '08. The 3.0L Merc diesel is phenomenal! I really wish I had one in my Rubi. It gets about 22-24 mpg on the highway, but it has as more torque and as much acceleration as the 5.7 Hemi V8 does in the same model year. Both of our Jeeps are '07's (the pic is now 3 years old).
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  #26  
Old January 12th, 2011, 11:20 PM
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04 D2 with a CNG powered 4.6 ?
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  #27  
Old January 13th, 2011, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECR View Post
The real issue is the EPA and "particulate matter".
That is the killer of Euro diesels here in the USA.
The EPA has decided that particulate matter is more important than NO and other pollutants.
In Europe they run clean diesels, these meet green-house gas requirements, but they do not meet EPA particulate matter requirements.
Sorry, but NOX is the problem. PM is easily controlled.
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  #28  
Old January 13th, 2011, 09:33 AM
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Sorry, but NOX is the problem. PM is easily controlled.
OK. If you say so.

When we started doing 300 Tdi conversions we did a lot of testing in order to try and get the engine to comply with EPA so that we could install them legally without issue.
We installed one in a test truck and did all kinds of tests with it. We had it tested by and sniffed by an EPA approved company. Sent the data to the EPA and worked with them. In the end we were close on NOX and WAY off on particulate matter. In working with the EPA we found that there was no way we could control the particulate matter so we gave up.
This was many years ago though. Perhaps newer technology allows for easier control of the "smog".
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  #29  
Old January 13th, 2011, 09:34 AM
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You could get a 2004 VW Touareg in a V10 TDI. It is auto and electronic everything but the one I drove last summer was very capable off road on the sandy beaches. They are pretty darn comfortable as well.
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  #30  
Old January 13th, 2011, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by ECR View Post
OK. If you say so.

When we started doing 300 Tdi conversions we did a lot of testing in order to try and get the engine to comply with EPA so that we could install them legally without issue.
We installed one in a test truck and did all kinds of tests with it. We had it tested by and sniffed by an EPA approved company. Sent the data to the EPA and worked with them. In the end we were close on NOX and WAY off on particulate matter. In working with the EPA we found that there was no way we could control the particulate matter so we gave up.
This was many years ago though. Perhaps newer technology allows for easier control of the "smog".
Would it be worth a test to examine putting the TD5 with matching tranny into a D as a new potential conversion experiment? Maybe that could be close enough to appease the EPA?
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  #31  
Old January 13th, 2011, 10:15 AM
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Would it be worth a test to examine putting the TD5 with matching tranny into a D as a new potential conversion experiment? Maybe that could be close enough to appease the EPA?
When we did the tests (years ago) it was because we thought the 300 Tdi installs were the wave of the future and thought we would be doing a lot more of them than we actually did. We only did small scale tests. To get something to actually pass an EPA test is huge money and lots of PITA factor with real EPA testing ($$$).
What we did were very simple tests to see how it might go.
It didn't go well so we gave up.

We don't do enough Td5 installs to make any sort of testing worth the $ or effort.
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  #32  
Old January 13th, 2011, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by ECR View Post
When we did the tests (years ago) it was because we thought the 300 Tdi installs were the wave of the future and thought we would be doing a lot more of them than we actually did. We only did small scale tests. To get something to actually pass an EPA test is huge money and lots of PITA factor with real EPA testing ($$$).
What we did were very simple tests to see how it might go.
It didn't go well so we gave up.

We don't do enough Td5 installs to make any sort of testing worth the $ or effort.
Fair enough and understood, although I think the lack of demand is more likely due to understanding and awareness of the TD5, greater complexity and lack of domestic availability of the components. I would think if a TD5 kit that was legal and was available for D conversions in the US, and the awareness was generated, then a demand surge would form. I hear about desire for conversions everywhere, and there is such a lack of options out there. I even think there would be a significant market for older DII's that have been converted to TD5's to be a contender for those wanting a diesel Rover option.

I know that I am a total convert, and so are my friends. I will never buy another petrol vehicle myself, unless it was a host for another conversion.
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  #33  
Old January 13th, 2011, 10:53 AM
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Fair enough and understood, although I think the lack of demand is more likely due to understanding and awareness of the TD5, greater complexity and lack of domestic availability of the components. I would think if a TD5 kit that was legal and was available for D conversions in the US, and the awareness was generated, then a demand surge would form. I hear about desire for conversions everywhere, and there is such a lack of options out there. I even think there would be a significant market for older DII's that have been converted to TD5's to be a contender for those wanting a diesel Rover option.

I know that I am a total convert, and so are my friends. I will never buy another petrol vehicle myself, unless it was a host for another conversion.
The cost of a Td5 conversion "kit" would put people off.
A 300 Tdi conversion take a lot less parts and most people freak at that price.
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  #34  
Old January 13th, 2011, 11:23 AM
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I will never buy another petrol vehicle myself, unless it was a host for another conversion.

After 'Diamonds are Forever', Sean Connery said he'd never do another James Bond flick again, either.

Eleven years later he did 'Never Say Never, Again'...
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  #35  
Old January 13th, 2011, 11:33 AM
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Similar position to Ron, and I'm down to an X3 (manual) or a Jetta Tdi (manual).

I can't afford to keep my Rubicon as a spare car, so I have a childish feeling like as soon as I sell it we'll get walloped with another 3' snow storm or another hurricane flooding the roads... I thought of another sedan (older //M or newer 3-series with AWD), but if I can make a sedan work, I might as well go with the Jetta and plan on snow tires. Either way is a compromise, and this becomes my primary DD for commuting as well as weekend activity car, sharing duty with mostly just my motorcycle.

The X3 is fewer compromises - does everything I need including haul whatever boat we'll race and all the dogs - except non-existent off-road abilities.

Jetta is more efficient but too small to haul all the dogs or enough tools/materials for the boat projects. It also limits the racing boat options (well, to small fun boats)

I nixed the Suby as the only ones really interesting have the turbo, then fuel economy gets worse, and on premium.
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  #36  
Old January 13th, 2011, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by ECR View Post
Holy bajeezus, they make you do that in trucks now?
I had no idea...
Even worse, same deal on ALL farm equipment diesels over 100hp. All those $100k tractors and 1/2 mil dollar combines run GPS and urea injection- and just shut down when empty on urea.
I had a V-10 Touareg a couple years back, and an awesome ride, but alas no stick for Ron.
Another to consider, a G wagon G280 from mid 80s, do the diesel conversion, and you're under $20k, 5 spd, and very comf, especially compared to a 110, not so much to a RR. Low 20 mpgs
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  #37  
Old January 13th, 2011, 05:23 PM
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I think I could live with an auto to drive the v-10 Touareg. massive torque right?
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  #38  
Old January 13th, 2011, 05:27 PM
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I think I could live with an auto to drive the v-10 Touareg. massive torque right?
Me too. One of my buddy's dad had one up in RI that we used to transport some boats...did a fine job on the boat ramp! Best of many worlds with the V-10 Tdi option in that truck.
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  #39  
Old January 13th, 2011, 05:42 PM
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Also kind of badass that it is a v10. Granted no way it is good on gas
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  #40  
Old January 13th, 2011, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by bjf
Also kind of badass that it is a v10. Granted no way it is good on gas
IIRC, the one that I drove averaged 22 but I did not have very long and put mostly high miles on it. It did have a pile of torque in reserve though.
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