demographics question.... - Page 3 - Defender Source
Defender Source  

Go Back   Defender Source > Non-Technical Discussions > Misc. Chit-Chat


Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #41  
Old August 18th, 2014, 08:51 PM
bigrichmanitoba
Status: Offline
Dick Manitoba
No Rovers, Series or Defenders
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Nationwide Baby: VT/VA/WV/FL
Posts: 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtomchik View Post
No ones paying for anything; in fact because of the sacrifices and hardships your parents faced your lot in life has improved. If they hadn't collectively decided to stick together and force their way in the door and the Irish would still be the bottom rung of society. It's cyclical, I am sure there were Englishman in NY at the turn of the last century looking down on the Irish protests and riots and saying the exact same things about them; 'animals'.

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
I remember my first semester in college!

Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #42  
Old August 18th, 2014, 08:57 PM
kevincdoyle's Avatar
kevincdoyle
Status: Offline
Kevin C. Doyle
1995 NAS D90 Coniston Green SW
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Tulsa, OK USA
Posts: 864
Registry
Well....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtomchik View Post
No ones paying for anything; in fact because of the sacrifices and hardships your parents faced your lot in life has improved. If they hadn't collectively decided to stick together and force their way in the door and the Irish would still be the bottom rung of society. It's cyclical, I am sure there were Englishman in NY at the turn of the last century looking down on the Irish protests and riots and saying the exact same things about them; 'animals'.

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
you got me there...I think the difference however is..assimilation...and of course, "collectively". Unfortunately there is absolutely no "unifying" or "collective" response going on in the majority of these "communities"..As Joseph Wambaugh so properly put it many, many years ago;
'until people learn to quit shitting in their own nest" they will never have the respect or backing of the rest of us..and shitting in your neighbors nest only serves to inflame and re-enforce stereotypes...

I feel for the hardships that many people face, but gaddamn, I'm tired of being told "it's your fault"...hell, we have a black President-tho many would say mixed race-black Attorney General, many, many higher offices held by blacks, but still not good enough? As far as I can tell this country is more gender discriminatory than it is race discriminator....at least that's what Forbes says...the ladies should revolt!!!
__________________
Attributed to Shayne...

"I actually like to paint some of my smaller parts......"
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old August 18th, 2014, 09:08 PM
rover4x4's Avatar
rover4x4
Status: Offline
Phillip
1995 SW #487/500
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: The Old North State
Posts: 7,526
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by ezzzzzzz View Post
naive....

------ Follow up post added August 18th, 2014 08:44 PM ------



All of my pistol clips are alternate hollowpoint/ball for shooting through doors and flesh. I only load up with straight ball when target shooting.
clips belong on ties and hairbows.



this is a major clusterfuck, I blame social media for the escalation. It is terrible that an unarmed teenager was shoot multiple times and is now dead. A trained LEO should use a firearm as a last resort, especially when the perpetrator is unarmed. Why he did not use his pepper spray or a tazer who knows.
__________________
Poor gas mileage gets you to the best places on earth
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #44  
Old August 18th, 2014, 09:12 PM
bigrichmanitoba
Status: Offline
Dick Manitoba
No Rovers, Series or Defenders
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Nationwide Baby: VT/VA/WV/FL
Posts: 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by rover4x4 View Post
clips belong on ties and hairbows.



this is a major clusterfuck, I blame social media for the escalation. It is terrible that an unarmed teenager was shoot multiple times and is now dead. A trained LEO should use a firearm as a last resort, especially when the perpetrator is unarmed. Why he did not use his pepper spray or a tazer who knows.
Grow up and get out.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old August 18th, 2014, 09:29 PM
kevincdoyle's Avatar
kevincdoyle
Status: Offline
Kevin C. Doyle
1995 NAS D90 Coniston Green SW
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Tulsa, OK USA
Posts: 864
Registry
????

Quote:
Originally Posted by rover4x4 View Post
clips belong on ties and hairbows.



this is a major clusterfuck, I blame social media for the escalation. It is terrible that an unarmed teenager was shoot multiple times and is now dead. A trained LEO should use a firearm as a last resort, especially when the perpetrator is unarmed. Why he did not use his pepper spray or a tazer who knows.
Social Media??? Social Media???

How about the pieces of shit that looted everything from the liquor stores to the hair extension stores??? Just like goddamn New Orleans!! Anybody recall any widespread looting in Joplin, or Moore, Fargo etc. or any other demographically different city??? How was that "protest"? That's such an excuse...

Facts are facts and wishing away behaviors by groups, ANY groups, won't make them stop..

Bernie Madoff was a Jew...most private equity, hedge fund, distressed debt whatever is managed by white guys for Christs sake. I see not one person defending their actions because of their ethnicity or "color" and if there is a group that's been beat up, it's the Jews...
__________________
Attributed to Shayne...

"I actually like to paint some of my smaller parts......"
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old August 18th, 2014, 10:07 PM
rover4x4's Avatar
rover4x4
Status: Offline
Phillip
1995 SW #487/500
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: The Old North State
Posts: 7,526
Registry
social media as in all the people jumping on the band wagon and it only ads fuel to the fire. need to just dump a bucket of ice water onto the entire situation
__________________
Poor gas mileage gets you to the best places on earth
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old August 18th, 2014, 10:11 PM
tjfslaughter's Avatar
tjfslaughter
Status: Offline
thomas
Burbon
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NorthEast
Posts: 4,563
Quote:
Originally Posted by rover4x4 View Post
clips belong on ties and hairbows. this is a major clusterfuck, I blame social media for the escalation. It is terrible that an unarmed teenager was shoot multiple times and is now dead. A trained LEO should use a firearm as a last resort, especially when the perpetrator is unarmed. Why he did not use his pepper spray or a tazer who knows.
I serious bodily harm or death was imminent he had every right to pull the trigger. This will probably go to trial, and he will get off. Just like Treyvon and George, only two people knows what went down.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old August 18th, 2014, 10:15 PM
NPT90's Avatar
NPT90
Status: Offline
JT
D90 óriginalé
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: DC/MD
Posts: 2,772
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by ezzzzzzz View Post
naive.... ------
Naive? You'd need 4 rounds to stop an unarmed man? Might want to get that prescription checked

------ Follow up post added August 18th, 2014 08:16 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevincdoyle View Post
you got me there...I think the difference however is..assimilation...and of course, "collectively". Unfortunately there is absolutely no "unifying" or "collective" response going on in the majority of these "communities"..As Joseph Wambaugh so properly put it many, many years ago; 'until people learn to quit shitting in their own nest" they will never have the respect or backing of the rest of us..and shitting in your neighbors nest only serves to inflame and re-enforce stereotypes... I feel for the hardships that many people face, but gaddamn, I'm tired of being told "it's your fault"...hell, we have a black President-tho many would say mixed race-black Attorney General, many, many higher offices held by blacks, but still not good enough? As far as I can tell this country is more gender discriminatory than it is race discriminator....at least that's what Forbes says...the ladies should revolt!!!
I'm actually with you, it would be nice to see the collective rise above and achieve. Unfortunately it takes time and opportunity. I think we may be failing a lot of Americans on the latter

------ Follow up post added August 18th, 2014 08:19 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by rover4x4 View Post
clips belong on ties and hairbows. this is a major clusterfuck, I blame social media for the escalation. It is terrible that an unarmed teenager was shoot multiple times and is now dead. A trained LEO should use a firearm as a last resort, especially when the perpetrator is unarmed. Why he did not use his pepper spray or a tazer who knows.
Thank you, that's what I tried to say in my original post, training and restraint. I actually feel for the officer involved as I am sure this was a tense situation that pushed him to his limit. Training and discipline supplement judgement. I'm just not sure he was in a state of mind to exhibit proper restraint
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old August 18th, 2014, 10:23 PM
bigrichmanitoba
Status: Offline
Dick Manitoba
No Rovers, Series or Defenders
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Nationwide Baby: VT/VA/WV/FL
Posts: 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtomchik View Post
Naive? You'd need 4 rounds to stop an unarmed man? Might want to get that prescription checked

------ Follow up post added August 18th, 2014 08:16 PM ------



I'm actually with you, it would be nice to see the collective rise above and achieve. Unfortunately it takes time and opportunity. I think we may be failing a lot of Americans on the latter

------ Follow up post added August 18th, 2014 08:19 PM ------



Thank you, that's what I tried to say in my original post, training and restraint. I actually feel for the officer involved as I am sure this was a tense situation that pushed him to his limit. Training and discipline supplement judgement. I'm just not sure he was in a state of mind to exhibit proper restraint
Do you even handgun bro?

I am surprised the officer didn't empty the entire magazine.

oh, and LOL
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old August 18th, 2014, 10:26 PM
tjfslaughter's Avatar
tjfslaughter
Status: Offline
thomas
Burbon
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NorthEast
Posts: 4,563
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigrichmanitoba View Post
Do you even handgun bro? I am surprised the officer didn't empty the entire magazine. oh, and LOL
6 rounds was probably fired in 2-3 seconds... 6 hits. I have not read how many shots actually left his gun that day.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old August 18th, 2014, 10:47 PM
bigrichmanitoba
Status: Offline
Dick Manitoba
No Rovers, Series or Defenders
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Nationwide Baby: VT/VA/WV/FL
Posts: 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjfslaughter View Post
6 rounds was probably fired in 2-3 seconds... 6 hits. I have not read how many shots actually left his gun that day.
You may have a point there...

The shooter was a cop after all. Probably discharged his patrol rifle as well.
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old August 18th, 2014, 11:24 PM
LuisC's Avatar
LuisC
Status: Offline
Luis Constantin
98 Disvovery 1 LE
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Austin,Texas USA
Posts: 1,900
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevincdoyle View Post
you got me there...I think the difference however is..assimilation...and of course, "collectively". Unfortunately there is absolutely no "unifying" or "collective" response going on in the majority of these "communities"..As Joseph Wambaugh so properly put it many, many years ago; 'until people learn to quit shitting in their own nest" they will never have the respect or backing of the rest of us..and shitting in your neighbors nest only serves to inflame and re-enforce stereotypes... I feel for the hardships that many people face, but gaddamn, I'm tired of being told "it's your fault"...hell, we have a black President-tho many would say mixed race-black Attorney General, many, many higher offices held by blacks, but still not good enough? As far as I can tell this country is more gender discriminatory than it is race discriminator....at least that's what Forbes says...the ladies should revolt!!!
I can see that now. Revolt in Duck Dynasty Stilettos and pink AK-47s.
__________________
Black Rhino Lives Matter
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old August 18th, 2014, 11:25 PM
CDeWan
Status: Offline
Clay DeWan
5.3L beastie
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 3,493
hmmm

I would like to read this post but so far there is no summary of where it starts, what point it is making, what people are agreeing or disagreeing with.... conclusion. Help!


Jason: in your statement -

I'm actually with you, it would be nice to see the collective rise above and achieve. Unfortunately it takes time and opportunity. I think we may be failing a lot of Americans on the latter


I think in this great nation of ours with all of its opportunities including those provided for "special classes" individuals have a responsibility and ability to rise above. so in this case an American failed himself by chosing theft over work.


Kurt in Bremen used the words "you live in a violent society". Does that mean globally or am I taking that statement the wrong way?
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old August 18th, 2014, 11:43 PM
LuisC's Avatar
LuisC
Status: Offline
Luis Constantin
98 Disvovery 1 LE
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Austin,Texas USA
Posts: 1,900
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtomchik View Post
No ones paying for anything; in fact because of the sacrifices and hardships your parents faced your lot in life has improved. If they hadn't collectively decided to stick together and force their way in the door and the Irish would still be the bottom rung of society. It's cyclical, I am sure there were Englishman in NY at the turn of the last century looking down on the Irish protests and riots and saying the exact same things about them; 'animals'. Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
My family immigrated from Cork, Ireland in the late 1800's. Moved to Boston to no work. Signs in business windows stated "Help wanted. Irish need not apply."
The only work an Irishman could find was that of a policeman. When the police unionized, my great grandfather quit and opened up his own trucking company.
They lived in Dorchester when it was nice. Their backyard backed up to the Kennedy's backyard.
Go figure. Another minority group that overcame boundaries to become president.
__________________
Black Rhino Lives Matter
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old August 18th, 2014, 11:49 PM
Ray_G's Avatar
Ray_G
Status: Offline
Ray Gerber
54 S1 86", 96 D1 (Coyote), 06 D3
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: NoVA
Posts: 2,636
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjfslaughter View Post
6 rounds was probably fired in 2-3 seconds... 6 hits. I have not read how many shots actually left his gun that day.
Would be interesting to see how many rounds left his weapon.

For those that think six is a lot of shots to bring down a human...I don't think you do this for a living. After a firefight you can ask folks how many rounds they shot and typically you get the '3, maybe 4' response-and you can then point to 4-5 magazines at their feet.

At the point and place of action people don't live up to potential-they fall back to their training. I'm guessing in this case the officer, when in his calculation it had rapidly escalated, pulled, rotated, engaged (I'm sure this was near simultaneous and may well account for the shots along the right side arm area) and continued presenting/engaging. I'd bet the last two shots he fired were the head shots that had the desired effect.

Oh, and it doesn't matter what caliber-you shoot till the target is no longer a threat.

Now whether the officer should have let the situation get to that is another question.
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old August 19th, 2014, 12:20 AM
LuisC's Avatar
LuisC
Status: Offline
Luis Constantin
98 Disvovery 1 LE
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Austin,Texas USA
Posts: 1,900
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtomchik View Post
Naive? You'd need 4 rounds to stop an unarmed man? Might want to get that prescription checked ------ Follow up post added August 18th, 2014 08:16 PM ------ I'm actually with you, it would be nice to see the collective rise above and achieve. Unfortunately it takes time and opportunity. I think we may be failing a lot of Americans on the latter ------ Follow up post added August 18th, 2014 08:19 PM ------ Thank you, that's what I tried to say in my original post, training and restraint. I actually feel for the officer involved as I am sure this was a tense situation that pushed him to his limit. Training and discipline supplement judgement. I'm just not sure he was in a state of mind to exhibit proper restraint
It's nice to say that training and discipline to help in judgement. But when you pull out a taser, and the suspect pulls a gun, if both draw at the same time, guess who dies. You every hear the saying, "bringing a knife to a gun fight?"
I know things have changed since I was in my small town cop shop. But we were instructed to treat every situation as if the person you're pulling over or confronting has a gun or it could be your last traffic stop ever. And if it's between me and the bad guy, believe me, today is not a good day for me to die. You're going down.

------ Follow up post added August 18th, 2014 11:29 PM ------

On another note; I know there are officers that are abusive with their power. When it comes to how the public feels about cops, its a fine line between fear and respect. And some social groups are demonstrating they neither fear nor respect, and that's scary.
__________________
Black Rhino Lives Matter
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old August 19th, 2014, 02:10 AM
LuisC's Avatar
LuisC
Status: Offline
Luis Constantin
98 Disvovery 1 LE
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Austin,Texas USA
Posts: 1,900
Registry
Girl, 3, dies after Maryland gunbattle
http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/16/justic...tle/index.html
Any riots in Maryland ?
__________________
Black Rhino Lives Matter
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old August 19th, 2014, 03:45 AM
SonnyAK's Avatar
SonnyAK
Status: Offline
Sonny
1993 NAS 110
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Anchorage, AK, USA
Posts: 500
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtomchik View Post
Naive? You'd need 4 rounds to stop an unarmed man? Might want to get that prescription checked

------ Follow up post added August 18th, 2014 08:16 PM ------



I'm actually with you, it would be nice to see the collective rise above and achieve. Unfortunately it takes time and opportunity. I think we may be failing a lot of Americans on the latter

------ Follow up post added August 18th, 2014 08:19 PM ------



Thank you, that's what I tried to say in my original post, training and restraint. I actually feel for the officer involved as I am sure this was a tense situation that pushed him to his limit. Training and discipline supplement judgement. I'm just not sure he was in a state of mind to exhibit proper restraint
If you look at many close encounters like this, you'll see that this situation is quite typical, when the situation falls to gunplay...Most officers are trained to shoot until the attack stops and it can easily take several seconds for several rounds to take effect. I think the head shots were probably the final shots of the situation (it's called a "failure drill"...you move to a shot that will immediately disable if all else has failed up to that point). Mass and momentum (and this young man definitely had some mass) will often lend itself to make a situation play out like this, if things get close very quickly. As far as pepper spray and tasers...those are generally carried on the officers weak hand side (typically by department policy), and if a situation goes bad very quickly, he's going to have to get the weapon most accessible...

I've worked in law enforcement for 18 years, and my agency is continually seeking minorities and females to fill our openings! We do incredibly well at recruiting from these ranks to fill many positions, but the reality is, that white males are drawn to law enforcement positions at an incredibly higher rate than any other demographic. It's impossible to hire the individuals that don't apply for the position no matter how much effort and time you spend recruiting them. We constantly send employees to high schools, universities, military job fairs, and local public events, yet we always end up with the same individuals being interested in seeking employement...

The situation that's playing out right now is incredibly sad...and the reality of it is that most of the people participating in the looting and crimes are the same people that would be committing other crimes if this wasn't happening now...They just have a really good excuse (in their minds) to do it openly and with great charisma!
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old August 19th, 2014, 04:13 AM
LuisC's Avatar
LuisC
Status: Offline
Luis Constantin
98 Disvovery 1 LE
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Austin,Texas USA
Posts: 1,900
Registry
Things keep going in this direction, we can expect the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 to be repealed.
To some degree, that may not be such a bad idea.
__________________
Black Rhino Lives Matter
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old August 19th, 2014, 04:39 AM
NPT90's Avatar
NPT90
Status: Offline
JT
D90 óriginalé
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: DC/MD
Posts: 2,772
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuisC View Post
Girl, 3, dies after Maryland gunbattle http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/16/justic...tle/index.html Any riots in Maryland ?
Little different, 'exchanged gunfire'
Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Defender Source > Non-Technical Discussions > Misc. Chit-Chat

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
NAS AC wiring question or call it a random wire question bjf Defender Technical Discussions 7 May 5th, 2009 09:58 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:06 PM.


Copyright