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  #1  
Old June 11th, 2010, 01:54 PM
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Alexandra
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Defender Safety

I'm posting this here since it's not really a technical discussion.

There was a recent discussion regarding the safety of a Defender and children in our house. The discussion was centered around children and Defenders specifically. Both the 90 and 110 were discussed. I would say that a 110 would be the ideal since it has the 2nd row seats vs an inward facing jump seat or the bench seat, although I was also a proponent of a kiddo in the bench seat.

Using a 110 with an NAS SD exterior cage on it how would it 110 compare to a Discovery in an accident? Would the kids be just as safe in a 110 as they would be in a Disco. This is assuming you have them in appropriately secured child seats in the second row of seats. We are also assuming trucks that are more street friendly in their set up vs trail rigs. The 90 in question does have an ARB so wouldn't that plow through any other soccer mom car?

I would be curious to thoughts on the feasibility of the engine coming through the bulkhead of a 90/110 vs a Disco in an accident.

Alex
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  #2  
Old June 11th, 2010, 02:39 PM
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I'd be more worried about something ( soccer mom driving SUV on cell phone or teen texting in Prius ) coming through the flimsy panels that make up a Defender body rather than the engine and gearbox breaking lose and separating from the chassis.

A roll cage is designed to protect from roll-over rather than impact ... hence it's name!

Bottom line is their is a reason you can't buy a defender in this country and it's not to preserve the value of my NAS 90!
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  #3  
Old June 11th, 2010, 02:42 PM
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There are a lot of variables to consider. Although, parts of this has been discussed several times, everyone's view points are polarized. Some people on this board will not let their kids ride in a 90 in any seat and others like me will take all reasonable care to make them secure. My kids have ridden in all the seats in a 90 ST and a 90 SW.

In a low speed crash either would be fairly equal, in a 90, 110 or Disco. But, the defenders do not have crumple zones, since it is basically a tractor. The ARB you have would provide very little protection in a serious accident. A buddy of mine ended up rear-ending someone that cut him off in his 90, the ARB was mangled as it is pretty thin metal. (I've had two on my trucks and sold them both).

A 110 with the SD cage or a ST cage will protect you once in a bad accident. There have been a few photos of a 110 and a NAS 90 that have been rolled.

Every vehicle has their weaknesses, not to debate this again, but I do not subscribe to the "Wrap your kids in a bubble" mentality.

Take precautions and drive defensively.
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  #4  
Old June 11th, 2010, 02:59 PM
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Jim Cheney
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With respect to what kind of seat is better for kids, I think that as long as you're using child seats, and the seat belt mounts are sound, then the type of seat itself is kind of moot. Your kid sits in the child seat, the belts hold that in place, as long as the car's seat isn't moving around, then everything should be OK in my estimation. With respect to passenger safety in general, I like the post 2007-spec Defender seats, but I think as long as the kiddos are well secured and facing forward, then they are fine.

With regard to the sanctity of the passenger cell, I would guess the Disco is superior, even with the SD cage on the Defender. In the case of a side-impact, I think it would definitely be easier to penetrate the Defender. Cages seem to have proven their worth in roll-overs, so I think survivability has more to do with the particulars of the accident than whether you suffer in a Disco or a Defender.

I'm sure the crumple zone on a Disco is superior to a Defender, but I've never seen any evidence I recall of motors coming through bulkheads under any circumstances. The motor on the defender is well-protected by the front crossmember, and the chassis rails are relatively close together. Most frontal collisions are offset, so it stands to reason that one or the other chassis rail would take the brunt of the impact. Put that ARB on the front and I think you are even better off.

My feeling on the matter in general is that any collision that is bad enough to worry about the differences in protection between a Disco and a Defender though, is one that you'll be luck to survive period.

Another factor is that the Disco is fast enough to drive like a jackass, I have a buddy who has one and I fear for my life every time I ride with him. If speed kills, then the Defender must be one of the safest vehicles on the planet.
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  #5  
Old June 11th, 2010, 03:18 PM
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If I had a kid, I would put on sliders on a 110. There was a D90 here that got hit pretty hard side impact with sliders and all it did was flop the truck on its side.

Then again, I don't have kids, my dog -- the only person who depends on me -- has a trust fund, and I drive like an idiot in possibly the least safe vehicle on the road (lotus).
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  #6  
Old June 11th, 2010, 03:19 PM
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One of our members ( Ryan ) plowed in the back of a big truck with his 90, and he walk out of the deal.

A family in OH roll their 110 ( wife was driving, dumped the front wheel off the highway onto shoulder, and when correcting , caput ) I think 4 people inside, tons of cargo, rolled several times and all walked with no injuries.

A friend got hit in the passenger side on his disco, an walked

Another one in a DII plowed at 30mph to an elctric pole and spent several weeks in the hospital.

As said before, I think it is all relative to the Guy upstairs, when he rings the doorbell, it is hard to tell him you are busy , and can come out
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  #7  
Old June 11th, 2010, 03:37 PM
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Is there a source to get the post 2007 defender seats for a NAS D90? I really like the forward facing seats of the new models.
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  #8  
Old June 11th, 2010, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reese_D90 View Post
Is there a source to get the post 2007 defender seats for a NAS D90? I really like the forward facing seats of the new models.
You have to change or radically alter the tub to fit them...
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  #9  
Old June 11th, 2010, 04:48 PM
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Pendy gave me this pic a while back of an NAS 110 he worked on that had rolled. In addition to the ARB I have, and properly anchored child seats in the 2nd row, I'm satisfied.

The sliders was planned, but the point made above reinforces the need to complete the package.

Great thread. Good to step back, remove the passion and bias, and objectively look at what a D is and isn't, and account for it in modifications and driving style.
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  #10  
Old June 11th, 2010, 04:52 PM
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See those push button door handles you guys like are nothing but trouble when your truck is sliding along it's side. LOL
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Old June 11th, 2010, 04:59 PM
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For the record, I always liked and preferred the look and function of the old style handles. Point well made.
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  #12  
Old June 11th, 2010, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evilfij View Post
Then again, I don't have kids, my dog -- the only person who depends on me -- has a trust fund, and I drive like an idiot in possibly the least safe vehicle on the road (lotus).
Our dogs have a trust fund too, should've seen the lawyers face when we asked for it to be drawn up.

I like the sliders idea. I was assuming a cage was for rollover protection in our discussion. I was looking at the 90 and it the bench seat sits inside of the frame rails in the tub so I was assume that would afford some protection in a 90.

I would think in a 90, 110 or any other vehicle a properly secured child seat would be the best form of protection, and securing dogs and cargo.
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  #13  
Old June 11th, 2010, 08:22 PM
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I'll 2nd (or 3rd?) the slider suggestion. For me and my family, they'd be for side impact protection first, and slider second.
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  #14  
Old June 11th, 2010, 09:48 PM
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Great thread Alex- and very cool you bumped into the in-laws way out there! Here's the deal from the engineer side- the killer is the stored energy in a crash. A Defender absorbs very little, but is built like a brick and very strong. We use Recaro kid seats in everything- especially the D, as per Jim's illustration above. The Disco absorbs a bunch of energy, softening the blow so to speak. Would you rather fall from a tree onto the ground or unto a mattress? Same impact force, different absorbtion of the force. We have rebuilt many Discos and Defenders from fires, roll overs, head on crashes, etc. One Disco comes to mind- rolled numerous times, and endoed a couple- just crunched from all directions- BUT minimal injuries to passengers, and all five doors latched and opened- quite amazing actually. Anyway, I vote the Disco as a highway 'safe' car/truck, and the Defender for a trail situation- just have good safety belts and head restraints- the neck injury is second to deceleration injury of the aorta in fatal crashes- aka, absorption... hence the airbag coccoon these days.
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  #15  
Old June 12th, 2010, 10:12 AM
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Seriously Dale- I'm beginning to be worried now. I love our Recaro seat. I'm actually a bit jealous of it at times. My daughter seems to think it's pretty great too, she about kicked the TSA agent last time we traveled for touching it.

I'm really enjoying all the different points of the discussion here. I was thinking the 110 as a family car for going to the reservoir with the dogs, etc and not highway driving. Think I'd rather drive the Disco up the hill just from a power perspective. I was also thinking the Defenders would be safer than a Jeep in regards to a more solid build.

I know this is another can of worms but I was always under the impression that Defenders were not imported because of a lack of airbags, were there other safety concerns too?
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Old June 12th, 2010, 12:38 PM
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They would not pass side-impact either.
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