Defender Returns to North America Merged Threadfest - Page 2 - Defender Source
Defender Source  

Go Back   Defender Source > Non-Technical Discussions > Misc. Chit-Chat


Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #21  
Old December 1st, 2003, 06:24 PM
mpodgorski's Avatar
mpodgorski
Status: Offline
martin
'94 D90 ST Arles
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: S Florida
Posts: 1,014
i think the Latin defender is gong to run into the same problems as the south American "overlander", which was to be a 17k defender look alike.
I haven't heard anything from the sales rep for the southeast, I wonder if they will be sold through the dealerships, I guess I should know.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #22  
Old December 1st, 2003, 06:52 PM
Joe P's Avatar
Joe P
Status: Offline
Joe Pfeiffer
Black 97 D-90ST #0605
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Irvine, CA
Posts: 748
Makes me a little nervous about the fact I am going to spend 22K on a D-90 this month. Maybe I should hold off. On second thought - I can't wait any longer.
__________________
If the truck makes it - the trail wasn't tough enough.
If the truck doesn't make it - the truck wasn't tough enough.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old December 1st, 2003, 07:17 PM
TwisteD90's Avatar
TwisteD90
Status: Offline
Yousef Hamzeh
06 RR SC, 06 LR3, 94 D90
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Colorado & Kuwait
Posts: 1,862
It's time to start saving my money in case they do make it to the States
__________________
World traveler
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #24  
Old December 1st, 2003, 08:00 PM
paulb's Avatar
paulb
Status: Offline
Paul / Boultbee
1994 D-90, Green #1576
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Los Altos Hills California USA
Posts: 786
This is interesting. Step back and do a business analysis (something I can not interpret from LR as they confuse me here). 1) Looking at the US market since 1997. The SUV is huge, in broad strokes the H2, the 2003 JEEP, and tweeked Tahoes have made great strides into the American Home.
2) Within the Ford portfolio of vehicles that H2 / Jeep spot is open so the Defender could fill it. Broad strokes here ...
Range Rover = H2; Disco = Grand Wagoneer; Defender = Jeep
3) Now on the other side is the cost of getting what Ford thinks the market wants. Ford is financially hurt but not down. That means they are looking at areas to expand, areas to cut. Niche segmentation from existing platforms is a tactic (think Mini).
4) For the defender, that segment is true off road capability with some modern luxuries. Plus big size, mean boxed look and style (on the H2 DVD players are it). I can not speak to the Jeep as I have not sat in one in over 5 yrs.
5) According to the LR magazines, Ford is pulling manufacturing out of the UK bit by bit. They dropped the Defender to UK government contracts (will they take on AMC & the H1 in the US?) 6) LR Defenders are not in the largest and most profitable market place - USA while other LR lines are kickin' arse..
7) Use of a 3rd party like Brazil to float an introduction of a modern Defender defers line product investment. Add in cannabilised parts from existing Fords, and if air bags are the core issue, a redesigned cabin is not that hard. Voila!
8) Cost (MSRP) would be difficult. Brazilian construction is a negative, but I would price it higher that Jeep as a premium brand, less that Disco as it does not have the refined touches. Extras really push up the price. International exchange rates are not favorable to exporting cars from Brazil.

Bottom line, pls, pls, pls, Ford do something and design a defender for the US market
__________________
I'm contemplating thinking about thinking about it!
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old December 1st, 2003, 08:36 PM
Chris Cox's Avatar
Chris Cox
Status: Offline
Chris Cox
94 D90 SW, 300tdi
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Greenville, NC
Posts: 355
One thing I am not sure of is wether or not we will get the 2.5 powerstroke if the truck does come back. It will more than likely be the TD5, as it meets more stringent emissions standards. From what I hear, that is one of the reasons the Crosslander is not getting the 2.8L powerstroke. Why spend all that $$$ getting an engine certified with EPA for sale in the US, when in a few years the engine will be obsolete because it won't pass the new emissions standards that will be put in place. Just another thought.

Chris
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old December 1st, 2003, 09:04 PM
rover4x4's Avatar
rover4x4
Status: Offline
Phillip
1995 SW #487/500
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: The Old North State
Posts: 7,523
Registry
doubt it.
__________________
Poor gas mileage gets you to the best places on earth
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old December 2nd, 2003, 07:33 AM
dmarchand's Avatar
dmarchand
Status: Offline
David Marchand
'97 D90 SW Arles
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: New England
Posts: 2,862
Registry
If they import it as a CKD kit and partner with a few retailers to build them (roveraccessories at SEMA for instance), I would imagine they can get around the engine issue.

Seems to me that was the point of their display at Sema.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old December 2nd, 2003, 08:59 AM
tbmcneill

Guest
 
Posts: n/a
i'll be surprised if this happens. don't get me wrong, i hope it does .... i'd probably get in line to buy one.

but, its not just air bags, its the entire structure of the vehicle that'll have to be redone. that was the reason for the full exo-cage in '93 ... the stock 110 couldn't pass minimum DOT safety requirements without it, so LR had to have special vehicles build all 512 trucks w/ the SD cage. so, how are brazil guys going to do it (@ 5000 units a year) in a even higher standard environment?!? i haven't kept up with the regs lately, but at the very least, in addition to some kind of 'cage' & air bags, they'd have to add side impact beams in the doors ... which means redesigning the latch & possibly hinges on the a, b, & c pillars & adding new 5mph bumpers front and rear.

of course, you can do anything if you have enough time and $$$. i just wonder how much 'time and $$$' it will take ... & hope that it gets amortized over 20k-30k vehicles ...
T
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old December 2nd, 2003, 10:11 AM
rover4x4's Avatar
rover4x4
Status: Offline
Phillip
1995 SW #487/500
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: The Old North State
Posts: 7,523
Registry
I think the Rovers are built tough and a hazard for the lesser automobils on the road.

reference: when Rob's truck got hit by an Escalade. search the old BB.
__________________
Poor gas mileage gets you to the best places on earth
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old December 2nd, 2003, 10:12 AM
RX6RCROL's Avatar
RX6RCROL
Status: Offline
Matthew Hedrick
1994 D-90 #646
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Wake Forest North Carolina
Posts: 1,099
Registry
Do Hummer H1's have crumple zones, 5 mph bumpers, side impact beams, airbags.....etc
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old December 2nd, 2003, 10:13 AM
rover4x4's Avatar
rover4x4
Status: Offline
Phillip
1995 SW #487/500
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: The Old North State
Posts: 7,523
Registry
ha I doubt it. How about dump trucks and other commercial vehicles. I guess that has to do with a wieght thing?
__________________
Poor gas mileage gets you to the best places on earth
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old December 2nd, 2003, 10:37 AM
TDI Guy's Avatar
TDI Guy
Status: Offline
Randy
2015 LR4
D-90 Source Vendor
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NJ
Posts: 4,573
Registry
I had a Honda Civic hit the back of my Ser III a few years ago. It hit the rear x-member and went under the truck, lifting ther rear of the truck off the ground a bit. All I did was put it in 4wd and pull myself off of the car. I had about $20 worth of damage to one of the rear lift handles . The Civic sat in the street totaled. They flatbedded it away. Who the hell needs 5mph bumpers and a crumple zone. Leave that to the other pieces of S^&t on the road.

That is true though about the H1's. They have no front or rear bumpers. Just frame. How do they get away with it?

Randy
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old December 2nd, 2003, 10:49 AM
TDI Guy's Avatar
TDI Guy
Status: Offline
Randy
2015 LR4
D-90 Source Vendor
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NJ
Posts: 4,573
Registry
By the way, did anyone see the pics of the new H-3 pics..
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	7252003132327.jpg
Views:	292
Size:	39.1 KB
ID:	149  
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old December 2nd, 2003, 11:04 AM
tbmcneill

Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Do Hummer H1's have crumple zones, 5 mph bumpers, side impact beams, airbags.....etc
no, but they but they do have GVWRs of 10,300 lbs qualifying them as commercial. a 110 is no where near that. there's not a single vehicle now sold in the US new with GVWRs less than 10k lbs without the bumpers, side impact beams, etc, etc....

i don't think 'fudging' on the GVWR will work again for LR like they did on the 90 when they gave it a GVWR of 6,001 lbs to break (at the time) that 6k lb rule....
T
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old December 2nd, 2003, 11:08 AM
TDI Guy's Avatar
TDI Guy
Status: Offline
Randy
2015 LR4
D-90 Source Vendor
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NJ
Posts: 4,573
Registry
Got it.. so its a weight thing... What does a 110 weigh? 4500lb???
__________________
Legend in My Own Mind.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old December 2nd, 2003, 11:17 AM
Chris Cox's Avatar
Chris Cox
Status: Offline
Chris Cox
94 D90 SW, 300tdi
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Greenville, NC
Posts: 355
GVW is actually what the vehicle can weigh when loaded. GVW really doesn't have anything to do with the actual weight of the truck itself. Trust me, I have had a few talks with NC DMV officers (unfortunately after being pulled over in my dumptrucks ) about the GVW thing. LR could have gotten some 130's in a couple of years ago by upping the GVW, because it would have gotten them past the regulations placed on vehicles with lower GVW's.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old December 2nd, 2003, 11:18 AM
tbmcneill

Guest
 
Posts: n/a
given LRNAs history on the 90, i'm not sure what NAS 110s are rated at having never looked (i'd be interested for someone to look in theirs and tell what the plaque says) .....

....but 'normal' versions are rated at 6100 lbs, according to the LR reference i have at the house. that's for petrol. Tdi's may come in a little different, but they'll be close.

... and chris is right .. GVWR (gross vehicle weight rating) is how much a fully loaded vehicle can weigh, not what it ACTUALLY DOES weigh. still, a 110 is no where near that ballpark.

there is some loophole about combined weights of trailer & truck being used to calculate GVWR, but i don't know enough about it to comment....
T

ps- chris, you don't happen to know Ray Walker, do you?
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old December 2nd, 2003, 02:20 PM
pcarey's Avatar
pcarey
Status: Offline
Peter Carey
'93 NAS Defender 110 #322
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Washington
Posts: 126
110 = 6503 GVWR

What does this have to do with the airspeed velocity of an unlaiden swallow??? Or maybe that's the wrong arguement.

pwc
__________________
pwc

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old December 2nd, 2003, 02:34 PM
Mike Hippert's Avatar
Mike Hippert
Status: Offline
D-90Slut/Stalker,SNLPres
94 D-90 Grinding Rover
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Manchester NH USA
Posts: 4,789
What do you mean an Affrican or European swallow?
__________________
Don't forget to
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
first then ask questions later! The loose nut behind the wheel
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old December 2nd, 2003, 04:01 PM
Chris Cox's Avatar
Chris Cox
Status: Offline
Chris Cox
94 D90 SW, 300tdi
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Greenville, NC
Posts: 355
As far as I know, the only reason for classifying the D90's GVW as 6001 lbs was that there is a light truck tarriff up to 6000, which would have heavily taxed the D90's on import. LR used this to get around the tarriff. Basically, for LR to get around some of the regs on passenger vehicles, the GVW would have to be around the same as the Hummer, which means it would basically have to have a 3/4 ton chassis, heavier axles, and a better breaking system to pass. Don't see this happening. I don't know what the GVW has to be for the vehicle to not have airbags, but I am pretty sure it is above what a Defender could be rated at (even a 130). I think everyone is getting way too excited about the CKD deal. Think about this: Why is there talks with LR Brazil about the CKD kits, when they get the kits from the LR factory in the UK? Why wouldn't the talks be with the factory? And if people think you are going to get a CKD kit for $15000, which Auto Week stated was the cost of the materials for the CKD kit, they are sadly mistaken. A couple of years ago, a CKD 110 2 door hardtop was about $18000. Then you still have ALOT of stuff to buy. I just don't see how it is going to work.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Defender Source > Non-Technical Discussions > Misc. Chit-Chat

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
94 NAS Defender 90-P.O.E.(Port of Entry) 1 of 65 made! on EBAY SeanD-90 Misc. Chit-Chat 29 May 27th, 2017 08:14 AM
Slickrock Defender 90 Sliders dave_lucas The Vendors Loft 15 November 28th, 2010 04:45 PM
VDO Speedometer Parts/Installation/Problems Merged Threads redrover Smaller Projects 86 March 7th, 2008 10:20 PM
Article from the September 2004 Issue of LRE norros Misc. Chit-Chat 8 September 16th, 2004 02:13 PM
Wanted: Clean D110 2-door carcass in North America dieselcruiserhead Wanted 1 July 23rd, 2004 07:39 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:18 AM.


Copyright