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  #1  
Old October 31st, 2009, 12:11 PM
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Defender 110 value, real or delusional

I am probably going to get slammed in this topic somewhere for talking what some may take to be Defender blasphemy but I have to ask, is the price being asked for a NAS 110 realistic or purely delusional on behalf of the seller?

I know the NAS trucks are rare, only being available for one year, but lets be real, they are nothing more than a four door 90 with a hard top. They are gas pigs and leak and corrode just the same as a 90. I am constantly seeing them come available for sale on ebay but the bids never make it to the reserve, maybe only to the mid 30s or perhaps a very low 40. This tells me that the reserve is way up there as would be the asking price if it were a private sale. Add a diesel conversion and the price goes even higher.

Then we look at the '83 trucks coming in from the UK. Here in Canada we can get a much newer truck, 15 years old, but the market is for the '83 and '84 trucks because of the USA 25 year rule. These are being sold as rebuilt from the ground up with newer running gear and modern bodies, for get this, well into the 40K range. It's an '83 for crying out loud. There is one in Calgary asking 65K CDN with a 2.8 international.

Now don't take me the wrong way just yet. You'll see I no longer own a land rover and as of yet I do not entirely miss it. I am happy in my A4 Avant for now with the winter temperatures set to come in any week. I sold both my Rovers to finance a 110 purchase when all of the sudden the plan changed with work. I was offered a position overseas and thus needed a vehicle in the interim that was reasonable and easily sellable. Defender 110 did not fit the description, so it is on hold but not out of the question. I absolutely love them. As with my 90 I would expect to become one with the truck and feel and hear every valve tap and gear mesh.

One day again I will be back into the Land Rover Defender realm but I need to know if this NAS 110 pricing is real or delusional? Is it just a matter of finding one that is in reasonable shape and getting to work on it to restore it, hoping to find one at a selloff price? I sold my D-90 to CDN90 and it did need some work. He is going to spend the money to do it properly as I enjoyed the truck as it was and did not see the value in dropping that kind of money into the body. Maybe that is my answer. Defenders are like art, they are only worth what you are willing to pay for it. If you're happy with a D-90 worth 15K or a 110 worth 25K then you're happy. That's all. If you're the type that wants it perfect then you're looking at 60K and up? Is that the answer?
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  #2  
Old October 31st, 2009, 12:46 PM
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You're overthinking it. The value is whatever the market deturmines it to be. If a buyer exists that will pay 50k, then it's worth that. Just like a bottle of wine can be worth 10k.

It sounds like your asking more accurately "is it worth it?". Well, that's a totally personal decision. Let's go back to the wine. It's a glass bottle with crushed grapes in it. To me it's worth about $10. But, obviously to someone it's worth the 10g's.

Let's look at a Defender from a purely logical point of view. It's made poorly. It's designed poorly. It's wired poorly. It's underpowered. It generally drives like poo. No matter what area you pick, you can buy something better. I would say a good condition 95 Defender is "worth" no more than a 95 Wrangler. 3k.

But, a Defender is a Defender. They are badass.

Hope that helps.
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  #3  
Old October 31st, 2009, 01:12 PM
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what we will see over the next few years is demand for these NAS 110's drop in value, its inevitable. And with the amount of Defenders coming into Canada on the 15 year law and into the USA on 25 year law we will at some point get real life pricing on these. And the special part of the NAS 110 is that cage which if i heard correctly ECR may be making them again (with SD). I'm not saying we are gonna see mint NAS 110's for $30k but i am saying they will not be $50k-70k forever. And ask anyone here a rebuilt ROW truck is better than a NAS 110.
The 90 soft top will hold its value longer than the rest of the NAS trucks.

We venture on about this in an earlier thread i made.

http://www.defendersource.com/forum/...eferrerid=5082

go through the thread and we start talking about NAS pricing.
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  #4  
Old October 31st, 2009, 01:53 PM
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John

I think your argument is flawed. Yes the NAS 110 is crap and yes you can build a better truck from a 83 but the fact is you will never be able to take away from there only being 535 original NAS trucks. You can build replicas but it will never be the real thing. People want these things because they are 4 door defenders but also because having that number plate on the back makes it part of an exclusive collection. As time goes on more and more will disappear or be beaters. That leaves nice correct examples always worth good money.

On ebay they may never hit their reserve but these trucks do sell. It just takes the right buyer. I bought my 90 from a guy who listed it on ebay and it didnt hit the reserve. The market for these things is bigger than our board. I meet people all the time that are original owners that don't frequent the board.

On a similar note, I was told a story recently of a guy trying to sell his 110 for 60 for the longest time. No one was looking so he lowered the price to 50. One day he went to church in the truck when someone came up to him and said I love the truck, I want one for my fly fishing trips where can I get one. He said I will sell mine for 65. The guy wrote a check right then and there.

With that said I will take 60k right now for mine.
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  #5  
Old October 31st, 2009, 03:08 PM
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A *real* original muscle car (SS496, copo, hemi, L88 etc.) or real RSR porsche is often worth several times the value of a clone, even though the clone is usually better in all respects. I think NAS 110 prices will always be that way. I am waiting for the inversion where nice originals are worth more than complete restos, but that does not seem to be happening.
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  #6  
Old October 31st, 2009, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andyrad

I know the NAS trucks are rare,
There you go. You went and used that 4 letter R word.
Now the goblins will come out and attack you.
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  #7  
Old October 31st, 2009, 04:41 PM
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with that said I will take 60k cash for my 110 right now!!!
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  #8  
Old October 31st, 2009, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjf
John

I think your argument is flawed. Yes the NAS 110 is crap and yes you can build a better truck from a 83 but the fact is you will never be able to take away from there only being 535 original NAS trucks. You can build replicas but it will never be the real thing. People want these things because they are 4 door defenders but also because having that number plate on the back makes it part of an exclusive collection. As time goes on more and more will disappear or be beaters. That leaves nice correct examples always worth good money.

On ebay they may never hit their reserve but these trucks do sell. It just takes the right buyer. I bought my 90 from a guy who listed it on ebay and it didnt hit the reserve. The market for these things is bigger than our board. I meet people all the time that are original owners that don't frequent the board.

On a similar note, I was told a story recently of a guy trying to sell his 110 for 60 for the longest time. No one was looking so he lowered the price to 50. One day he went to church in the truck when someone came up to him and said I love the truck, I want one for my fly fishing trips where can I get one. He said I will sell mine for 65. The guy wrote a check right then and there.

With that said I will take 60k right now for mine.
Barry i know what you say, but there will be a point where that number plate, title and cage arent gonna be worth the money they now go for. you may have misinterpreted my statement about ROW trucks, i meant that NAS are crap but i didnt mean that ROW trucks will go for more than NAS. i think there will be a $10k difference between similar condition NAS 110's and ROW 110's a few years down the road. And yes i know it only takes 1 uneducated asshole to pay $70k for a truck worth $40k or $50k.
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  #9  
Old October 31st, 2009, 08:22 PM
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Funny enough the trucks are down in value I think only because of the economy. A few years ago prices were much higher.
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  #10  
Old October 31st, 2009, 08:39 PM
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I actually think gas prices hurt the value of the trucks more. Suddenly everyone started looking for more fuel efficient vehicles and 110s are in the Hummer category as far as the perception of gas gluttony. Then the economy tanked and really drove the prices down further.

I agree with Ron a real Yenko Camaro will bring a hell of alot more than a new clone that is in all respects a better car.
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  #11  
Old October 31st, 2009, 11:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenix37
I actually think gas prices hurt the value of the trucks more. Suddenly everyone started looking for more fuel efficient vehicles and 110s are in the Hummer category as far as the perception of gas gluttony. Then the economy tanked and really drove the prices down further.

I agree with Ron a real Yenko Camaro will bring a hell of alot more than a new clone that is in all respects a better car.
Barry is correct about the economy, but your choice about gas prices isn't. These are purchased as toys as are hummers which means they aren't driven like your everday car which means that filling up the defender isn't a huge expense. The bad economy hurts the people who can't afford to have a spare/toy vehicle which will bring prices down because no one can justify a min. 12 year old vehicle for $20k.

There is a big difference between the Yenko and its clone and the NAS 110 and a ROW 110. A Yenko is a Special edition model so of course you want an original. I think a more accurate argument would be an SVX to a regular ROW, i really think that the NAS 110 won't hold value as high you guys think.
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  #12  
Old November 1st, 2009, 07:44 AM
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Another point- they are now 17 years old. Drive a new 110, then a NAS110- what a difference!! And the UK mags still pick the JK over the new 110s. So, yes the value is there d/t numbers/availability. But as trucks improve, the willingness of 'normal' folks to live with the old issues diminishes. We on the board cannot be objective, as we are afflicted. But at the end of the day, it is all supply and demand- at least until we as a country become totally Socialist. As the 25 year rule includes more trucks each year, the price will fall- more supply. The NAS trucks seem to be falling due to a faster rate of declining demand and more trucks (110s) for sale than I ever seen at one time- increased supply. Add in the poor economy, even less demand because if you have to live with one truck, are you willing to live with a 110- see Ron's post re: on the roadside repair....
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Old November 1st, 2009, 04:23 PM
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NIce feedback. So there it is. Nothing more really than supply and demand of the NAS vehicles mixed with the economy and the conditions of the vehicles coming available to dictate their price. The asking price versus the actually selling price, if they ever sell, will remain more of a mystery as we usually see only the four letter word sold.

Hopefully, if this overseas position comes to full fruition, I will have a chance to drive a newer 110 with some form of diesel powerplant that I will be able to compare to the '94 D-90 that I had with the 3.9. This should tell me if I should be looking at a NAS 110 with a V8 or a diesel, or maybe just go back in time and pickup a 15 year old with a modern body, powerplant, and interior upgrade package. Unless it all falls apart and I am staying here then I will be looking again sooner than later.

Thanks for your input.
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Old November 1st, 2009, 05:46 PM
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Maybe the answer is a bit of both. Some prices are crazy but then again a mint example of one of ~500 vehicles is rare and valuable. To the point about imports and new production models potentially diluting the value of a NAS 110 I would tell you to look at the 1983 FJ40 Landcruiser as a comparision. ~350 imported that year, last year into the states, check ebay and find many high priced imports...but they never seem to sell. Did the release of the widely popular FJ Cruiser devalue the 83 FJ40, just try finding one on a regular basis for sale...for cheap...in original condition. Price is usually relative to condition no doubt, but the inherent value will never be lost IMO.
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Old November 1st, 2009, 09:26 PM
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[QUOTE=JohnsD90]Barry is correct about the economy, but your choice about gas prices isn't. These are purchased as toys as are hummers which means they aren't driven like your everday car which means that filling up the defender isn't a huge expense. The bad economy hurts the people who can't afford to have a spare/toy vehicle which will bring prices down because no one can justify a min. 12 year old vehicle for $20k.


John I think you missed my point. My statement had nothing to do with whether or not someone can afford to pay for the gas. It had more to do with the fact that these trucks are status symbols. When gas skyrocketed it no longer was cool to drive a gas guzzler.


The NAS 110 isnt a special edition? Then why are they numbered?
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  #16  
Old November 1st, 2009, 09:56 PM
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If I can make an opinion ( not than anyone cares *LOL* )

Every Seat can have an ASS and Every ASS can have a seat, as there is an ASS for every seat.

It all boils down to, how many people can no longer afford the 110 seating in the garage not used as it is not the most elegant, comfie drive to go out on a Black Tie to a Wedding, so the sell for ridiculously low, then you have the Seller with high expectation that we still leave in 10 years ago "DREAMWORLD " and expect to obtain $ 65,000 for it.

I was expossed to al this lovely scennarios this past 2 weeks, and at the end NO ONE can truly attest to their TRUE VALUE.

They will always sell for Crazy $$ and thye will always sell very reasonable

*man I've almost sounded like a Presidential Candidate, mins of BS and nothing concrete *LOL*
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Old November 1st, 2009, 10:23 PM
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[QUOTE=phoenix37]
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnsD90
Barry is correct about the economy, but your choice about gas prices isn't. These are purchased as toys as are hummers which means they aren't driven like your everday car which means that filling up the defender isn't a huge expense. The bad economy hurts the people who can't afford to have a spare/toy vehicle which will bring prices down because no one can justify a min. 12 year old vehicle for $20k.


John I think you missed my point. My statement had nothing to do with whether or not someone can afford to pay for the gas. It had more to do with the fact that these trucks are status symbols. When gas skyrocketed it no longer was cool to drive a gas guzzler.


The NAS 110 isnt a special edition? Then why are they numbered?
ok, i see what you meant. yes and no about the 110 as a special edition. It turned into one because they were the only 110's that came in, but initally they weren't supposed to be a Special Edition. I guess my arguement may be flawed but whatever we'll see in a few years who is right. And all of the NAS defenders were numbered.

Follow-up Post:

Rugbier did you buy the 110 that was on the Rovers north forums? is it the one with the 300tdi?
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  #18  
Old November 1st, 2009, 10:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnsD90
Rugbier did you buy the 110 that was on the Rovers north forums? is it the one with the 300tdi?
No, the one on RN site is a V8 3.5 carbed.

I've bought DougC's ( Maryland110 ) and it is a 200Tdi .
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  #19  
Old November 1st, 2009, 10:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnsD90
And all of the NAS defenders were numbered.
The numbers went somewhat higher than 500...

The simplest explanation for the price variation you see now is the fact that currently NAS 110's are available in a wide variety of conditions, with a great many of them not being "nice." No matter how rare and desirable a vehicle is, it doesn't bring top dollar if its in crap shape. We're pretty well past the point when any LR dealer could take a NAS 110 back on trade and flip it on their lot. They've lost interest and most of the trucks are too worn out to do that with anyway.

Its also pretty much impossible to compare import 110's to NAS 110's without getting into an argument about the definition of the word "is" or spending a lot of time reading past threads on the topic.
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Old November 1st, 2009, 10:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rugbier
No, the one on RN site is a V8 3.5 carbed.

I've bought DougC's ( Maryland110 ) and it is a 200Tdi .
oh, i hadnt checked RN on like 2 months, i saw a different one with the same color and it had a 300tdi i think. That doesnt matter. Congrats on the 110. Now its time for the thread in the project section so we can see what you are doing to it.
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