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  #1  
Old July 7th, 2014, 04:22 PM
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Defender 110 safety

Hi, everyone

For the last 3 years I have been desperately wanting a Defender 110, but have not been blessed with the opportunity to make that dream a reality yet. I recently became a father, and another concern has started to come into play. In the midst of dreaming about someday owning a Defender, have I become numb to the work associated with maintaining one and the safety of driving around with my wife and daughter (no airbags, ABS, etc)?

Do you have concerns about safety?

Is owning a Defender painfully difficult to maintain, or is it possible to keep the time maintaining somewhat low?
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  #2  
Old July 7th, 2014, 05:07 PM
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My 110 is my daily driver and goes on all of our Boy Scout outings. I keep a few parts handy (like alternators) and keep up on maintenance as best I can.

My 11 year old is with me most of the time. I'd rather be in my 110 (with the Safety Devices cage) than a Kia, Hyundai, Prius, or other crap like that.

Jump on in. The water's fine. It's just a little oily.
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  #3  
Old July 7th, 2014, 05:12 PM
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Its the same as owning a boat. It's always corroding in front of your eyes, if you don't do at least some of your own maintenance and repairs, the service will eat you alive. You need to be a little self sufficient with regards to working on it. If you were to bring it to a good rover specialist every time it needed service, you could easily spend thousands every year just keeping her running (that's if you actually use it). If it only comes out on nice weekends, that's a different story.
The comparisons are many, but definitely similar to boat ownership IMO!




Depending upon how much of a helicopter parent you are (or aren't) they're safe as you want them to be.
I'd say that a rollcage would be mandatory with children in the truck, these things are no stronger than a sardine can when flipped upside down without any roll cage protection. Even with a roll cage, there are a thousand and one sharp edges inside. THat said, I'm pretty comfortable with mine and it's safety.


Bottom line Nate is that it's going to require your money or attention throughout the ownership (maybe both). Don't get into this if you don't kinda enjoy these things.


I also agree with what John said above. I feel pretty safe in my 110 with a full roll cage. It's my daily driver as well.
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  #4  
Old July 7th, 2014, 05:14 PM
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Nate, I drive a 97 NAS90 on a daily basis and have been driving NAS 90's since 96. I also have an 83 ROW110 that I dive on weekends and to work on good days. I don't find them painfully difficult but it really depends on what your frame of reference is. In terms of safety, we are all taking some risk as these things are not built for impact.

Good Luck
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  #5  
Old July 7th, 2014, 05:23 PM
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Have had my 110 CSW for over ten years, and my kids have grown up riding in it all over the world. It is an ideal family vehicle, particularly if you are outdoorsy. I would not want to go offroading in one with small kids on board (re rollover risk mentioned) but otherwise it is statistically a very safe vehicle to be in. UK crash stats show that Defender passengers usually come out of car crashes better off than other cars, mainly due to ride height. And you are not likely to be going fast. Of course, there are no airbags, so you have to be OK with that. But I have had many years of happy motoring with kids in my 110. Go for it.
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  #6  
Old July 7th, 2014, 05:36 PM
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Get a roll cage and drive defensively.
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  #7  
Old July 7th, 2014, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talleyrand View Post
UK crash stats show that Defender passengers usually come out of car crashes better off than other cars, mainly due to ride height.
Not trying to argue, but do you have a source on that?

In a severe accident I would rather be in a Defender with a roll cage than most vehicles, but in a more minor collision you could sustain much more severe injuries due to the lack of crumple zones. at least if you get hit by a garbage truck, you might not get crushed as easily!
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  #8  
Old July 7th, 2014, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TELOS View Post
Hi, everyone For the last 3 years I have been desperately wanting a Defender 110, but have not been blessed with the opportunity to make that dream a reality yet. I recently became a father, and another concern has started to come into play. In the midst of dreaming about someday owning a Defender, have I become numb to the work associated with maintaining one and the safety of driving around with my wife and daughter (no airbags, ABS, etc)? Do you have concerns about safety? Is owning a Defender painfully difficult to maintain, or is it possible to keep the time maintaining somewhat low?
If you can't reconcile this in your own mind asking me to help you come to terms with it won't help. I'll tell it exactly as how I see it.

Defenders are a side impact death trap. People will try and mitigate with suggestions of rock crawler bars. But basically the front of a vehicle hitting the doors is going to stop somewhere around the middle of your vehicle.

There is no protective padding in a defender so what you see is what you are going to meet face to face when it crashes.

I wouldn't worry about having no ABS people managed before it existed and it's just an aid for drivers who can't control their vehicles.

That being said the brakes won't lockup in the dry and in the wet you should drive more carefully and leave bigger distances.

If you need ABS to feel comfortable driving ... Go take some lessons and learn how to brake properly. Abs isn't magic and cannot compensate poor driving.

The maintenance is a function of the vehicle you buy ... But if you have someone else repair it it will be expensive and if you do it yourself you'll spend disproportionate amount of time asking questions here and following the random guesses people throw out to help you 'fix' it.

NAS defenders have roll bar setups for a very good reason. Rolling a defender is like scrunching up a paper grocery bag ...

All this being said I'm a huge defender fan. I have it as my only vehicle and take it everywhere. I understand the limitations of my abilities and the capability of my vehicle. I make sure my wife also understands these limitations and accepts them.

If you can't rationalize and accept the reality of what a defender is don't buy one.
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  #9  
Old July 7th, 2014, 06:02 PM
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Good Lord! How did this species survive 50 years ago before ABS, airbags, or even seatbelts. It's a miracle.
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  #10  
Old July 7th, 2014, 06:27 PM
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Every time I see a Prius, Camry or Honda on the road, I feel sorry for them in an accident. When I'm in them, I feel unsafe. It's all about perspective.

I was in numerous accidents over the years in my old CJ. I have a heavy bumper on the front and rear. For some reason, little imports were attracted to it like magnets. I seemed to be rear ended by them every other month. I had a pintle hook mounted to my HD rear bumper. Every time I was rear ended, it was obvious the car rear ended me had folded up like origami impacting the pintle before the bumpers even touched; kinda like putting a bend in a beer can with your thumb before crushing it with you hand. I even had a head on in my CJ, again, with a little import piece o' crap. Not even a scratch but I was picking out colored turn signal plastic for days out of my winch fairlead.

I feel 100x more safe in my NAS 110 than in a CJ7. I have crumple zones in my Defender. They just happen to be conveniently installed in the other cars I'm gonna hit or will hit me. Crumple on I say. Long live old iron...
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  #11  
Old July 7th, 2014, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Overlander View Post
Every time I see a Prius, Camry or Honda on the road, I feel sorry for them in an accident. When I'm in them, I feel unsafe. It's all about perspective. I was in numerous accidents over the years in my old CJ. I have a heavy bumper on the front and rear. For some reason, little imports were attracted to it like magnets. I seemed to be rear ended by them every other month. I had a pintle hook mounted to my HD rear bumper. Every time I was rear ended, it was obvious the car rear ended me had folded up like origami impacting the pintle before the bumpers even touched; kinda like putting a bend in a beer can with your thumb before crushing it with you hand. I even had a head on in my CJ, again, with a little import piece o' crap. Not even a scratch but I was picking out colored turn signal plastic for days out of my winch fairlead. I have crumple zones in my Defender. They just happen to be conveniently installed in the other cars I'm gonna hit or will hit me. Crumple on I say. Long live old iron...
It's about physics and the conversion of energy. Your defender is just making the other vehicle crumple more ... You might be ok with that or you might not.
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  #12  
Old July 7th, 2014, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Overlander View Post
I have crumple zones in my Defender. They just happen to be conveniently installed in the other cars I'm gonna hit or will hit me. Crumple on I say.
Love it!
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  #13  
Old July 7th, 2014, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by leastonce View Post
It's about physics and the conversion of energy. Your defender is just making the other vehicle crumple more ... You might be ok with that or you might not.
I'm fully aware of physics, momentum and that my D is making the other car crumple more, and I'm ok with it.

Last year, a Lexus and my 110 simultaneously back into each other coming out of parking spaces. I got a little bitty dent in my right rear turn signal cage, and the Lexus needed a new trunk lid.

F' new cars.
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  #14  
Old July 7th, 2014, 06:42 PM
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What if you hit another NAS 110? Or on a more serious note, a large commercial vehicle?
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  #15  
Old July 7th, 2014, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuisC View Post
Good Lord! How did this species survive 50 years ago before ABS, airbags, or even seatbelts. It's a miracle.
That was also before Facebook, cell phones, texting, Pandora, iPods, etc... became common. Driving today and driving 50 years ago only have the act of being in a vehicle in common, nothing else.
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  #16  
Old July 7th, 2014, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viggen View Post
That was also before Facebook, cell phones, texting, Pandora, iPods, etc... became common. Driving today and driving 50 years ago only have the act of being in a vehicle in common, nothing else.
On a supportive note for new cars, I would NOT want to roll in a car before laminate and tempered glass were rolled out. That's like sitting in a meat grinder.

------ Follow up post added July 7th, 2014 07:19 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jymmiejamz View Post
What if you hit another NAS 110? Or on a more serious note, a large commercial vehicle?
Once you start talking about 10 tonne+, do crumple zones really matter? Defensive driving and luck are your only saving graces.

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Old July 7th, 2014, 07:20 PM
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When I was in law enforcement, I remember a single car accident on a rainy day. The passenger was wearing a seatbelt. The driver not. The driver survived. The passengers neck snapped from the restraint of the seatbelt and killed him. I'm also a miracle twice over. In 86, I was broadsided on the driver side. The investigating officer said if I'd been wearing a seat belt, I would have been cut in half at the lower torso. The other, was a head on at 55mph no seatbelts. I looked through the windscreen at the crumpled hood, crawled to the passenger side, opened the door and walked away. Seatbelts and airbags only save you in certain situations. There are always those situations that will dictate otherwise.
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Old July 7th, 2014, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Overlander View Post

On a supportive note for new cars, I would NOT want to roll in a car before laminate and tempered glass were rolled out. That's like sitting in a meat grinder.

------ Follow up post added July 7th, 2014 07:19 PM ------

Once you start talking about 10 tonne+, do crumple zones really matter? Defensive driving and luck are your only saving graces.
Holy crap. That's no bueno pic.
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Old July 7th, 2014, 07:25 PM
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by TELOS View Post
Hi, everyone

For the last 3 years I have been desperately wanting a Defender 110, but have not been blessed with the opportunity to make that dream a reality yet. I recently became a father, and another concern has started to come into play. In the midst of dreaming about someday owning a Defender, have I become numb to the work associated with maintaining one and the safety of driving around with my wife and daughter (no airbags, ABS, etc)?

Do you have concerns about safety?

Is owning a Defender painfully difficult to maintain, or is it possible to keep the time maintaining somewhat low?
Sorry off topic but that avatar rocks!
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  #20  
Old July 7th, 2014, 08:15 PM
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I guess I'm older and look at it differently. That and I've never been in a defender. But I have driven Series Rovers for 40 years. My kids grew up in an 88 and a 109. Sometimes the 88 was our only car with all 4 of us in it. I bolted the kids seat to the rear wheel well where the side seats should have been.
Maybe it is where I live maybe it is how I drive, I haven't been in an accident since 1977, she blacked out and hit me. My wheels made her Karmengia concave down the side. I had a small bend in the front portion of the wing.
We went on vacations to the Black Rock Desert every other year or so. Not rock crawling but off roading for sure.
Not that I want anyone to lose thier family members in an accident but you do the best to not have one and hopefully other drivers will too(and not drive when they have blackout!).
Ya pays yer money an takes yer chances. So if you can be pragmatic about it and come to grips, go for it. Just don't grow old saying "I wish I had......"
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