Dealer sued for Rover VIN swap fraud - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old October 19th, 2011, 01:23 PM
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Dealer sued for Rover VIN swap fraud

http://www.ksby.com/news/lawsuit-acc...prettyPhoto/0/


Not good....
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  #2  
Old October 19th, 2011, 01:29 PM
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Funny. This guy was on here a while back trying to sell the truck and I believe he claimed it was a legit ground up build.

------ Follow up post added October 19th, 2011 10:29 AM ------

Just found the thread: http://www.defendersource.com/forum/...ad.php?t=32513. Someone must have had seconds thoughts about its legitimacy after posting it on here.
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  #3  
Old October 19th, 2011, 01:31 PM
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Didn't he end up selling this truck too?
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  #4  
Old October 19th, 2011, 01:35 PM
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Wait hang on. Are you telling me the guy that filed the lawsuit tried to flip the truck as legit and now he is suing claiming it isnt? Wow the defendant would probably be real keen to see those posts.
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  #5  
Old October 19th, 2011, 01:40 PM
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Check out that thread. It looks like he was seriously defending his build. Sounds like an interesting court case...

------ Follow up post added October 19th, 2011 10:46 AM ------

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Didn't he end up selling this truck too?
You're right! Just read a little more and the guy said he sold it...so now, who's the fraud here?
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  #6  
Old October 19th, 2011, 01:46 PM
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I just skimmed it. Did he ever post the VIN on here? Im pretty sure a judge would throw this out if it could be confirmed that this is the same truck.


Did this truck get seized on top of it all?

Im sure he lied about it being sold because he knew he opened a can of worms on here he wasnt going to be able to close thats probably when he decided it was best to sue.
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  #7  
Old October 19th, 2011, 02:33 PM
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His posts here won't help him but either way the real loser in the case is the truck. One would assume he forfeited it or it was seized if he brought up this lawsuit. I guess he could have returned the truck and when he didn't get his cash decided to sue. Either way sounds like the truck won't be owned by the general public anymore.
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  #8  
Old October 19th, 2011, 02:34 PM
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The ironic thing is... even if he did build it (from new-ish parts i'd assume, as it was a 2007 puma) and sold it for $78000, he'd have seriously lost money....

I priced up (on microcat) a while back (i was bored...) to build a basic, hard top Td5 90. bog standard. nothing in it, no stereo. it had a nato hitch and a snorkel. this was the basic spec i did it to, and that came out at 75000 UKP!!! (ok, this was all brand new parts from a "dealer" so to speak), so i don't see how he could have built a 110 station wagon, using a newer (and thus more expensive) 2.4 puma lump, and all the interior trim that a 110 needs, and still turn a profit.

Definately a dodgy one... even if he just bought a RoW spec puma and shipped it over and re-vin'd it???
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  #9  
Old October 19th, 2011, 03:03 PM
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Here's the thread where it was on ebay: http://www.defendersource.com/forum/...ad.php?t=32126
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  #10  
Old October 19th, 2011, 03:28 PM
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Barry,

I would challenge that statement, if the truck indeed gets seized I am not 100% that will be commissioned to CBP. more likely it will end up in a Goverment Auction, with :

A : A newly CA Vin number issued to it
B : For Parts Only ( which some creative person will re-register one more time )




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His posts here won't help him but either way the real loser in the case is the truck. One would assume he forfeited it or it was seized if he brought up this lawsuit. I guess he could have returned the truck and when he didn't get his cash decided to sue. Either way sounds like the truck won't be owned by the general public anymore.
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  #11  
Old October 19th, 2011, 03:39 PM
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Here was closer to the original first time it was on here back when Barry used to call everyone who put a 110 up for sale.

http://www.defendersource.com/forum/...ad.php?t=30391

And on Jalopnik if anyone has forgotten what it looked like with the bent bumper.

http://jalopnik.com/5782821/for-1390...lm-save-on-gas

Are they all the same truck though? It had been for sale on eBay for $140k, but the lawsuit says it was purchased for $78k, and that Daniel Starr dude had it for sale on here for $85. Plus, Julian had said back in July that it was being investigated by the NHTSA, then a month later (when pumadefender was trying to sell it on here) that he knew the truck and that it was a great deal.

July
http://www.defendersource.com/forum/...44&postcount=3

August
http://www.defendersource.com/forum/...22&postcount=2

confused.
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  #12  
Old October 19th, 2011, 04:06 PM
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  #13  
Old October 19th, 2011, 04:20 PM
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damn horsey! I need to see this spread sheet you have...
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  #14  
Old October 19th, 2011, 04:57 PM
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I did indeed talk to the original owner that first time it was on ebay. No clue what story was true.
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  #15  
Old October 19th, 2011, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
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damn horsey! I need to see this spread sheet you have...
It's not just a spreadsheet. I'm pretty sure he has a wall map with pushpins and strings in addition to it.
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  #16  
Old October 19th, 2011, 08:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diesel_jim View Post
The ironic thing is... even if he did build it (from new-ish parts i'd assume, as it was a 2007 puma) and sold it for $78000, he'd have seriously lost money....

I priced up (on microcat) a while back (i was bored...) to build a basic, hard top Td5 90. bog standard. nothing in it, no stereo. it had a nato hitch and a snorkel. this was the basic spec i did it to, and that came out at 75000 UKP!!! (ok, this was all brand new parts from a "dealer" so to speak), so i don't see how he could have built a 110 station wagon, using a newer (and thus more expensive) 2.4 puma lump, and all the interior trim that a 110 needs, and still turn a profit.

Definately a dodgy one... even if he just bought a RoW spec puma and shipped it over and re-vin'd it???

'bought' and restored the ignition barrel were the slide hammer key broke it ...
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  #17  
Old October 19th, 2011, 09:31 PM
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One vin swap truck was discovered, a drop in the bucket really isnt it?? People might think these vin swap trucks are worth a lot and rare but to me piece of mind is priceless. Just makes me realise my ORIGINAL 110 csw with all its pedigree paperwork is the true rarity. Does this make these vin swaps leave ebay for the backwoods and dark allies?
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  #18  
Old October 20th, 2011, 03:50 PM
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I discovered some discrepancies with the VIN and could not verify its origins. I then contacted the person I purchased the vehicle to take it back which he did (thus the "it's sold" comment). I had numerous offers from 3rd parties and refused to sell as I did not want any liability. From all of the information I received it was a rebuild and I am not mechanically inclined enough to know the difference. It is a shame because the truck was beautiful.
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  #19  
Old October 20th, 2011, 04:00 PM
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Did you discover the discrepancies to the VIN as a result of the questions raised here (in your For Sale thread) that you brushed off as "haters"? All I remember is when you said it was not a questionable vehicle. And the cable box.

http://www.defendersource.com/forum/...4&postcount=21
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  #20  
Old October 20th, 2011, 04:08 PM
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No it was a far more mundane event that brought about the issues. I discovered the discrepancies when I attempted to order an oil filter using my VIN. The bottom line is that there are no gray lines on this stuff. I suppose it is black or white. 97 or before and legit, or a complete scam that should be avoided at all costs. I learned the hard way.
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