DC100 Scrapped? Back to the Drawing board? - Page 2 - Defender Source
Defender Source  

Go Back   Defender Source > Non-Technical Discussions > Misc. Chit-Chat


Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #21  
Old January 13th, 2013, 07:12 AM
Rocky's Avatar
Rocky
Status: Offline
Chris
72 + D1 drivetrain
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Colonies Aka Boston
Posts: 8,781
The defender is unreplaceable. How many vehicle.s have survived since Ronsld Reagan was President, five different gas engines, eight Diesel engines, six. (?) stick shift boxes auto boxes, functioned across the world at high altitude and underground.

It is what it is. Keep in Production like the old coke. The next utility Land Rover can never match this one. But it needs to reach the markets where Wranglers Patrols and Land Cruisers dominate.
__________________
A friend of mine runs a land rover / range rover specialty repair shop. Based on his experience, they are capable of stopping anywhere, anytime, at any cost.

I don't know about the brakes, only their unreliability.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #22  
Old January 13th, 2013, 09:01 AM
Viggen's Avatar
Viggen
Status: Offline
Jarrod
none
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Arlington, Va
Posts: 774
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
The defender is unreplaceable. How many vehicle.s have survived since Ronsld Reagan was President, five different gas engines, eight Diesel engines, six. (?) stick shift boxes auto boxes, functioned across the world at high altitude and underground.
Land Cruiser. Toyota did it. They still do it. The 40 series begat the 70 series which is better than the 40 series and more popular. Its really not that hard. You just have to be fearless.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old January 13th, 2013, 09:40 AM
sonoronos's Avatar
sonoronos
Status: Offline
Ed
None
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 5,537
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viggen View Post
Land Cruiser. Toyota did it. They still do it. The 40 series begat the 70 series which is better than the 40 series and more popular. Its really not that hard. You just have to be fearless.
I love the Landcruiser, but I think Rocky is talking about the fact that the Defender literally has not changed. The Landcruiser has been through 6 redesigns in the same time that the Defender has gone through...well..zero
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #24  
Old January 13th, 2013, 10:35 AM
Viggen's Avatar
Viggen
Status: Offline
Jarrod
none
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Arlington, Va
Posts: 774
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonoronos View Post
I love the Landcruiser, but I think Rocky is talking about the fact that the Defender literally has not changed. The Landcruiser has been through 6 redesigns in the same time that the Defender has gone through...well..zero
This is true but isnt this the problem?
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old January 13th, 2013, 10:53 AM
TeriAnn's Avatar
TeriAnn
Status: Offline
Teriann Wakeman
1960 Dormobile
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Flagstaff, AZ USA
Posts: 247
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonoronos View Post
I love the Landcruiser, but I think Rocky is talking about the fact that the Defender literally has not changed. The Landcruiser has been through 6 redesigns in the same time that the Defender has gone through...well..zero
Which is good. Makes Defenders excellent parts sources as Series parts dry up and Defender parts are a good upgrade path.

My 1960 Series II (not A) currently has Defender front outer wing panels, door tops, door seals, door hinges, door latches, windscreen wiper motor and Defender heated seats.

I can not think of another vehicle that you can do this with.

In my mind what makes the root model line successful for so long is:

1. The ultimate automotive tinker toy set. It is easily reconfigured and modified to fit the role almost any owner would want it to play.

2. It is easily field repairable with common hand tools

3. With bolt on body parts and aftermarket frames these trucks are infinitely rebuildable as long as parts are available. They are never worn out or broken to the point of going to the wrecker unless the owner chooses not to swap in new parts. You can not do that with unibody construction.

Tata can never truly replace the Defender unless the new version can be all three. The best they can do is supplement the Defender with something not as good at what the Defender does best.
__________________
TeriAnn
1960 Land Rover Dormobile, The go anywhere class B RV
1961 Triumph TR3A. Life is too short not to drive a classic British roadster.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old January 13th, 2013, 11:13 AM
Jpayne's Avatar
Jpayne
Status: Offline
Jeff Payne
'83 110 3 Door
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 1,393
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeriAnn View Post
3. With bolt on body parts and aftermarket frames these trucks are infinitely rebuildable as long as parts are available. They are never worn out or broken to the point of going to the wrecker unless the owner chooses not to swap in new parts. You can not do that with unibody construction.
I think you hit the nail on the head right there. While many consumers see that as a bonus, the manufacturer see less units sold. With so many cars being sold as consumable items these days it is illogical for a manufacturer to keep producing models that will last generations. After market suppliers will continue to support our aging trucks but I highly doubt that Tata would want to ramp up production on wings and bonnets just because and old series truck needs some upgrades.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old January 14th, 2013, 08:15 AM
Viggen's Avatar
Viggen
Status: Offline
Jarrod
none
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Arlington, Va
Posts: 774
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jpayne View Post
I think you hit the nail on the head right there. While many consumers see that as a bonus, the manufacturer see less units sold. With so many cars being sold as consumable items these days it is illogical for a manufacturer to keep producing models that will last generations. After market suppliers will continue to support our aging trucks but I highly doubt that Tata would want to ramp up production on wings and bonnets just because and old series truck needs some upgrades.
From what I was told, and this came from a conversation with someone at AB so its hearsay, Tata has already begun to reduce the amount of OEM parts available for D1s. I was looking for a new fuel tank for mine and AB at the time had one in stock and their supplier told them that there werent too many more coming down the pipe.

A manufacturer needs to move units, not parts (which often times are made by a supplier to them, not by them specifically). Spares are not what keep people in their jobs.

Toyota was very successful putting the 40 series of trucks, available in many different guises, to bed and working with the 70 series, again available in many different guises. LR is just going to have to suck it up, depart and put it out there. If the continue to put out a limited production run of the old truck alongside the new one and then gradually phase it out, that might keep some happy. Why can they not use the system on the LR4? Its got a frame and is more than capable (with steel springs) of handling what a person might want to do with something like the D100.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old January 14th, 2013, 09:17 AM
Willh's Avatar
Willh
Status: Offline
Will Hedrick
Use to own NAS #96, #1778, & #1008
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Wake Forest, NC, USA
Posts: 1,230
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by TravelerBT View Post
http://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/life...wn-on-Defender

Anyone else heard this? I kinda liked this design
This interview, by Autocar.co.uk, with Gerry McGovern would seem to conflict with this report:

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/ne...ser-production
__________________
.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Please feel free to visit my website at:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Quote:
Willh is the F'n man! Defender of the Defenders! - Overlander
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old January 14th, 2013, 09:47 AM
TeriAnn's Avatar
TeriAnn
Status: Offline
Teriann Wakeman
1960 Dormobile
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Flagstaff, AZ USA
Posts: 247
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viggen View Post
From what I was told, and this came from a conversation with someone at AB so its hearsay, Tata has already begun to reduce the amount of OEM parts available for D1s.
Of course they have. It started during the Ford years. Any D1 specific factory parts are leftovers that still happen to be on the shelf.

The US government regulations (Nanny state regulations to some people) require that a manufacturer selling vehicles in the US to support the vehicle with replacement parts for a minimum of 10 years. Wanting to sell more new cars, most manufacturers selling into the US either manufacture or have contracts with their suppliers for enough spares to last 10 years. The 10 year estimate is never exact so some parts are available for a bit longer. 10 year factory parts support has become the de facto standard for most of the world.

The Land Rover root line was an exception to this and I suspect it was mainly because of military parts support contracts. When Rover was sold to BMW the company started discontinuing older parts not used in military or other government contracts. (Nanny states butting in again forcing better parts support for the LRs they purchase for the military).

Ford has a strict 10 year parts support policy following the minimum required by regulations so LR parts support decreased for older vehicles as government contracts expired. The MoD has disposed of the last of the SIII vehicles so Factory Series parts are rapidly drying up.

Tata is probably just following the same policy.

There are a lot of old LRs in the UK and a large parts support cottage industry sprung up to support them with parts LR had discontinued. But unfortunately the recession hit and most of these small UK companies ceased business. In the US if a company runs out of business the US government gives them a second chance to get it together in the form of a Chapter 11 reorganization. The UK doesn't have a Chapter 11. There, if you run out of money and can not pay debts you cease operations. At least you no longer go to debtors prison then become indentured servants any more. Anyway that's why the quality aftermarket parts support has dried up during the past few years.

If you are looking for a Land Rover and want maximum life parts support, probably the best thing to do is pick up an ex-MoD WOLF. And unlike the ex-MoD Series trucks the WOLFs are tougher than the civilian Defenders.
__________________
TeriAnn
1960 Land Rover Dormobile, The go anywhere class B RV
1961 Triumph TR3A. Life is too short not to drive a classic British roadster.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old January 14th, 2013, 09:48 AM
rover4x4's Avatar
rover4x4
Status: Offline
Phillip
1995 SW #487/500
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: The Old North State
Posts: 7,525
Registry
Jeep really is doing great things,their trucks are still "cheap". I want a 4x4 that is more of a "truck" than a toy.
__________________
Poor gas mileage gets you to the best places on earth
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old January 14th, 2013, 10:08 AM
sonoronos's Avatar
sonoronos
Status: Offline
Ed
None
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 5,537
Registry
To address Viggen's point, we already do have a redesigned Defender, just like the Landcruiser. It's called the Range Rover. It costs about the same as a Landcruiser too

The modern Landcruiser is an absurd vehicle. At $78,000, it sells less than 3000 units a year. A Suburban at $45,000 has more interior room and sells 45,000 units a year. Almost half the price and 15x more units sold.

If Land Rover wants to sell more Defenders, it has to sell them at a lower cost, while keeping quality the same or better.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old January 14th, 2013, 10:11 AM
TeriAnn's Avatar
TeriAnn
Status: Offline
Teriann Wakeman
1960 Dormobile
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Flagstaff, AZ USA
Posts: 247
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willh View Post
This interview, by Autocar.co.uk, with Gerry McGovern would seem to conflict with this report:

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/ne...ser-production
Article quote: He said: “A like-for-like replacement for the Defender would not be appropriate and wouldn’t be legal with safety legislation. We can still capture the essence of the past but in a modern way.”

Leaves me to wonder that the British military will be using in the future, a mixture of G-wagons & Humvees? It appears that Jaguar Land Rover is abandoning the military vehicle market.

Oh well after JLR closes the book on real Defenders I'll be able to tell folks that my Land Rover harkens back to the old days when Land Rovers were Land Rovers and lasted longer than 10-15 years.
__________________
TeriAnn
1960 Land Rover Dormobile, The go anywhere class B RV
1961 Triumph TR3A. Life is too short not to drive a classic British roadster.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old January 14th, 2013, 11:04 AM
Viggen's Avatar
Viggen
Status: Offline
Jarrod
none
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Arlington, Va
Posts: 774
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonoronos View Post
To address Viggen's point, we already do have a redesigned Defender, just like the Landcruiser. It's called the Range Rover. It costs about the same as a Landcruiser too

The modern Landcruiser is an absurd vehicle. At $78,000, it sells less than 3000 units a year. A Suburban at $45,000 has more interior room and sells 45,000 units a year. Almost half the price and 15x more units sold.

If Land Rover wants to sell more Defenders, it has to sell them at a lower cost, while keeping quality the same or better.
Ill agree that the new LCs are ridiculous and bloated. They went way upmarket and removed themselves from the market. I do, however, contend that the difference between the Range Rover and the Land Cruiser is product placement. If more celebutards were seen getting in and out of the Cruisers, it might be a little different. Toyota has spent next to nothing advertising that thing.

What I mean by Cruiser is the 70 series which replaced the iconic 40 series. Rover could keep the cost down if they cut down the chassis of the LR4 and used it. Get the DC100, square it off a little bit and call it a day. If IFS/ IRS isnt acceptable, still use the LR4 chassis and engineer it to use the currently used axles. Its not ideal but it will reduce costs using readily available parts from the bin. Tata took the XF and XJ and just reverse engineered them to be AWD. Thats tough when the car and its floor pan were never meant to carry the extra weight and routing requirements of it. Figuring out a link front and rear suspension shouldnt be too tough.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old April 3rd, 2013, 12:39 AM
navydevildoc's Avatar
navydevildoc
Status: Offline
Neill Thornton
1984 D90 300 Tdi / 1965 Series IIA
Site Team
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 1,586
Registry
Looks like even Gerry McGovern, head of design at Land Rover, has realized what a mistake the DC100 was.

http://www.caradvice.com.au/223036/n...ocks-designer/

The two most important paragraphs....

Quote:
“We’ve moved it on from [DC100], and I think we’ve got something now that is even more relevant and even more desirable, and even the traditionalists will love me for it.
and

Quote:
“We did a survey of the response to [DC100]. We got 250,000 respondents on the internet: 90 per cent of them loved it – pretty good – eight per cent were indifferent and two per cent wanted to kill me, and I was worried about that two per cent,” McGovern joked.
So maybe there is hope yet....
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old April 3rd, 2013, 01:04 AM
Manimal's Avatar
Manimal
Status: Offline
Carl Jonsson
1995 NAS D90 #219
Site Team
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 3,236
Encouraging direction but not convinced just yet. The lingo these guys use concerns me. If I hear the term "lifestyle" one more time I'm gonna bloody flip... as they say. Unfortunately most car designers are stylists and have a tendency to get a bit overzealous with the decorative elements.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old April 3rd, 2013, 01:53 AM
jvelador's Avatar
jvelador
Status: Offline
Javier Velador
'95 D90 / '66 IIA
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Redondo Beach, CA
Posts: 592
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSBriggs View Post
Maybe, but Ive never found dogs balls all that appealing.

-Jeff
I don't even want to know. I'll keep my Defender that smells like exhaust and oil leaks.

Read the last three paragraphs of the following article. As always, Edwards and McGovern are not on the same page, having given interviews with completely opposing views.

What's interesting is that now they've switched their position. McGovern thinks 'traditionalists' will love him, Edwards now says they're gonna move on regardless of our dislike of the direction.

http://www.motoring.com.au/news/2013...seg_4=Outbrain
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old April 3rd, 2013, 02:13 AM
Rocky's Avatar
Rocky
Status: Offline
Chris
72 + D1 drivetrain
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Colonies Aka Boston
Posts: 8,781
Wondering if the DC100 was used as a brand media noise maker and cover for the lack of new product.
If fight it was DOA when when released.
__________________
A friend of mine runs a land rover / range rover specialty repair shop. Based on his experience, they are capable of stopping anywhere, anytime, at any cost.

I don't know about the brakes, only their unreliability.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old April 3rd, 2013, 07:02 AM
cwilder's Avatar
cwilder
Status: Offline
Chad
2012 110 Black
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 739
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by navydevildoc View Post
Looks like even Gerry McGovern, head of design at Land Rover, has realized what a mistake the DC100 was.

http://www.caradvice.com.au/223036/n...ocks-designer/

The two most important paragraphs....



and



So maybe there is hope yet....
I really hope this pans out!!
__________________
_________________________________
2016 Range Rover TD6
2013 Raptor F150 SVT
1997 D-90 #1867 (sold) :(
2012 Black 110 :) In OZ still
2011 LR4 "Metropolis" (sold) :(
2011 Raptor F150 SVT (sold) :(
2007 Shelby GT500 (sold)
2007 LR3 (sold)
2006 RRS (sold)
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old April 3rd, 2013, 09:07 AM
jvelador's Avatar
jvelador
Status: Offline
Javier Velador
'95 D90 / '66 IIA
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Redondo Beach, CA
Posts: 592
Yes, I know
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old April 3rd, 2013, 11:26 AM
Manimal's Avatar
Manimal
Status: Offline
Carl Jonsson
1995 NAS D90 #219
Site Team
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 3,236
Agreed. The problem is they have stylists working on the design when engineers and product designers should. The first Land Rover wasn't designed. It was engineered.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JSBriggs View Post

Look at all the 'new defender' concepts that come out over the years. Thats what they have always been, a study in ridiculousness, that leave us crying for the 1958 design. Its pure genius.

-Jeff
__________________
Land Rovers. A loosely associated collection of parts, generally traveling in the same direction.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Defender Source > Non-Technical Discussions > Misc. Chit-Chat

Tags
ac, dc100, wing

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Funny read, but nothing to contribute to this board ini88 Misc. Chit-Chat 1 October 25th, 2005 12:04 AM
New to the board, have questions chris snell Defender Technical Discussions 4 September 5th, 2005 05:02 PM
CO2, ARB on board air! TwisteD90 For Sale - Parts 4 June 16th, 2004 11:43 PM
On board air compressor Davis Defender Technical Discussions 5 March 7th, 2004 08:28 PM
On Board Air javelinadave Misc. Chit-Chat 13 December 2nd, 2003 12:41 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:35 AM.


Copyright