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  #41  
Old January 21st, 2007, 06:39 PM
Monkeyboy

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It was interesting to see fairly back-to-back '57 Bel-Air's earlier today.

Both black, but the first one across was not at all original .. it would still look great in my garage.

The second one was a very original looking fuelie ... that sold for wayyyy more than the first one.

Granted, the first one had nice day-to-day updates, but was judged worth considerably less than the original.

Just an observation ... and another reason that I think I'll keep the mods to the Disco and the Series, leaving the 90 well enough alone.
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  #42  
Old January 21st, 2007, 07:18 PM
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numbers matching cars are pretty cool, esp. when you get into the muscle cars, bc they are so well documented and the subtle differences between cars, as for numbers matching 110's? sure i'll bet one like the one auctioned off today might make it, but that won't appeal to me, i'll always be a modder, i'm not very good with buying something and letting it sit in my garage... I work with a guy who bought an 07 STI in november, it has 300 miles on it and hasn't moved it 1 month from his climate controlled garage... how do people have this self control?

also isn't it sad to see middle aged guys blowing away their retirement funds and children's inheritance on cars? i realize there might be some investment value in them but really, besides museums what is going to happen to them... that said i wish i was rich enough to buy carrol shelby's cobra, of course i would have driven everyday the sun was out if i owned it...
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  #43  
Old January 29th, 2007, 02:17 PM
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That thing was not even correct. It had the wrong wheels and tires at least.
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  #44  
Old January 29th, 2007, 02:56 PM
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I have to chime in on skytop. I reached out to them during my restoration project, looking for a "defender" right wing. He said no problem had one in stock, and ended up sending Pendy, who had my project, a series III wing. Long story short, He tried to "F" me, expecting me to pay not only original shipping, but return shipping, in story credit only, and shipping again on replacement. Worst experience of my whole restoration project. I'm with Roverboy, stay clear of Skytop, they have no ethical business standards. Pendy can vouch for me on this.
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  #45  
Old January 29th, 2007, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tkavan01
didn't say i hated you, just trying to guestimate what you will charge, is there something wrong with that?
Trevor,
I will tell you that my 110 from Copley ran me $34K when I got it 2 years back. Was it in ECR condition? Not really. I spend as much time on the ECR site as the next person and I have thought often about how nice it would be to be able to ship mine off and have a better than new one return, that is not in my budget. Thinking about the sheer cost of (new) parts and labor that ECR puts into those vehicles, I am not sure that the cost is out of line for those that have been rebuilt and resold by Copely. I dont see either of those folks retiring any time soon on the loot they are pulling in on the 110s, given the relatively low volume. Now those that are been sold without the rebuilds, it is simple supply and demand.

I have used the 110 I got from Copley as a daily driver from day 1. It has seen very few days in a garage (under my ownership - mostly while I was having that pesky body capping replaced, but hey that was the best of all worlds, driving it with no top and being able to fit in my garage). Other than a fuel pump gone bad around 100K miles and a clogged fuel filter - it looked as though it could have been the original, I have not had any real issues (knock on wood). In both cases, the maintenance seemed apprpriate for the mileage. Over all my experience was fantastic and I would not hesitate to do business with them again.

I have seen plenty of everyday folks flip 90s for a much greater % profit than I have to imagine these guys are pulling in.

Jon tends to take far better care of his rovers than I and I am confident that his will continue to appreciate as I only hope for mine to give me years of enjoyment and good use.
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  #46  
Old January 30th, 2007, 11:29 AM
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Skytop brings the suck. Poor vendor.

Reminds me of Big Sky Rover actually.

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  #47  
Old January 31st, 2007, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon_Winningham
Say what you want...
If you think $90,000 was alot for a D110 that in 1993 cost $40,575, wait a few more years. You will think that a correct D110 for $90,000 was a steal. I bet that in another 14 years these things will be going for $150,000 or more.
See the only thing is that in 11 years time you will be able to buy a 1993 D-110 direct from merry ole for about 5k, probably less.
Do you think that people will want to pay 145k more then that just for a ###/500 emblem?

Follow-up Post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by pendy
Skytop brings the suck. Poor vendor.

Reminds me of Big Sky Rover actually.

JP
They sell parts that are rusty and full of bullet holes as "like new"?
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  #48  
Old January 31st, 2007, 10:19 AM
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I think NAS as opposed to euro will be the difference between clone and real Hemi's or L88 etc.

NAS will still bring a premium, but the driver market will be absorbed by the 25 plus year old british junk.
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  #49  
Old January 31st, 2007, 02:16 PM
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Lets face it, whats really going to determine the value of our trucks is how much money we dump into it to restore it. No rover lasts forever with daily/weekend use, Slamming down a stack of receipts on the day of sale to prove you really do have a fresh 4.6 under the hood is the best leverage for a rover seller. NAS trucks will always be preferred as proven by the prices of grey market vs NAS trucks on e-bay.

Neil
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  #50  
Old January 31st, 2007, 03:51 PM
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Pure stock trucks will be a huge premium, imho. Which mine is sooooo NOT.

Doug W.
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  #51  
Old January 31st, 2007, 04:42 PM
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A little "chime in" on the import comments here...
Forgetting about any illegal means and going on legal import of a 25 year old 110.
Hurdle #1, age. OK, so you wait your 25 years and you find an OK shape 110 overseas and import it. The DOT/NHTSA will let you slide on form # HS-7 as it was manufactured 25 years ago, box 1 I believe.

Hurdle #2, EPA. Back in the days when we used to import Series trucks it was easy because they were 25 years old and pre-1969, so no DOT and no EPA, but in a 1984 110 you will need to fill out an EPA form for import. You'll have to have an EPA certificate # that proves the engine in your rig, or the engine that WAS in it (Yes, even if you import it without an engine it must still have an EPA cert ((don't tell me how stupid that is, I know)). So the 3.5V8 might have an EPA cert (I don't know) due to the old grey market RRs that used to come in, but the 2.5 will not, nor will the 200 Tdi or the 2.5NA diesel.
So you jumped hurdle #1, but how do you jump hurdle #2?

On Monday I spent 5 hours with 2 US Customs officials in a bonded area in Saco, ME in regards to our most recent container and the problems there in (Tdis and a 110 body shell form Equicar). So if you think what I am saying is incorrect or easily defeated I offer that my most recent shippment just had a good number of parts not allowed and that container is now on the way back to the UK (with parts still inside).

I checked with EPA and what the customs official told me is correct. A vehicle, or even the assembladge of a vehicle (one minus the engine and gearbox), are required to pass EPA.
These are new rules and they suck.

I keep hearing that everyone is chomping at the bit for when Defenders become "importable easily" and I wonder how you all are going to get past EPA?
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  #52  
Old January 31st, 2007, 05:07 PM
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"I keep hearing that everyone is chomping at the bit for when Defenders become "importable easily" and I wonder how you all are going to get past EPA?"

From the EPA website:

"1. Vehicles 21 Years Old Or Older

"If the vehicle is at least 21 years old, there are no EPA compliance requirements upon importation. The age of the vehicle is determined by subtracting the calendar year of manufacture from the calendar year of importation. If the calendar year of manufacture is unavailable, the importer may substitute the model year or year of first registration. For instance, to qualify in 2001, the vehicle must have been manufactured in 1980 or earlier. The vehicle must be in its original unmodified configuration. Vehicles at least 21 years old with replacement engines are not eligible for this exemption unless they contain equivalent or newer EPA certified engines.

No approval or Customs bond is required by EPA. The importer must also prove to Customs, as required, that the vehicle or engine was manufactured prior to EPA regulation. Documents such as a title, or letter from the original manufacturer may be used for this purpose.The importer must file with Customs, upon entry, an EPA Form 3520-1 and declare code "E" on that form."

So buy one with an original motor or EQUIVALENT. All it says is you have to verify the age (15ukp from the british hertitage place).

http://www.epa.gov/otaq/imports/forms/3520-1.pdf


If you could get an 1983-1986 90 or 110 to pass DOT you could get pass EPA without issue. You can't . . . . but if you find an 1983 110 built in 1982 and assuming DOT uses the same math (ie year of manufacture to present year), there are now 25 year old defenders that are importable.

Ron

Wonder what the build date is on this one.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1983-LAND-ROVE...QQcmdZViewItem

VERY early truck with the 2.25 petrol

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1983-LAND-ROVE...QQcmdZViewItem

Ditto with an august 1983 registration. Park it until a year from now and bob's your uncle.
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  #53  
Old January 31st, 2007, 06:05 PM
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Looks good, my dealings were with EPA and newer body shells that need to pass EPA, so it looks like from Rons findings EPA is not a hassle on the older rigs like it is with the newer bodies, so good hunting.

In my past imports the DOT was using the "date of first registration" from the V5 forms for their 25 year math. My attempts to make them use date of manufacture (year) for the math fell on deaf ears. Date of manufacture is even stated in the HS-7 form, but they would only take the date from the V5 (UK title) form.
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  #54  
Old January 31st, 2007, 06:29 PM
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Don Johnson
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Originally Posted by ECR
Looks good, my dealings were with EPA and newer body shells that need to pass EPA, so it looks like from Rons findings EPA is not a hassle on the older rigs like it is with the newer bodies, so good hunting.
Mike,
Im sorry but Im not understanding this, im sure its not you, its the govt not making sense. The Environmental Protection Agency is giving you shit about new BODY SHELLS? What the fuck do body shells have to do with environment.

I think I am going to go to the few acres of property we have in IL, pour oil all over the ground, then pour diesel on it. Then light it, tape this, mail the tape to the EPA.
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  #55  
Old January 31st, 2007, 07:50 PM
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Yeah, I'm baffled too, and some of that shows in my post (forgetting the 21 year rule as I have been dealing with EPA about late model body shells (like those sold by Equicar)).
Yup, shells, (not new ones either, stuff a few years old) as in bulkhead, doors, roof, etc, no engine, no gearbox, no frame. EPA says because it WAS a motor vehicle at one time I must show EPA compliance forms for the engine that WOULD have been in the shell, eventhough there is no engine installed, and none shipped with the shell.
EPAs answer to get around it was that the A and B pillars of the shell would have to be cut off, thus making it not a vehicle. Good for the EPA, bad if you are looking for body parts.
Agent Foley (not Alex Foley either) from Portland Customs also gave me a bunch of crap about replacement engines (Rover V8s we tried to import). He said that a replacement engine (we are talking long block here not a complete engine) must be manufcatured the same year as the vehicle it is intended to fit. So according to him, if you had a 1990 Range Rover and the engine blew, EPA would only allow you to import a 3.9 MANUFACTURED in 1990 to replace it. You could not get a newer 3.9 or 4.0 to replace it legally under EPA laws. I still don't believe that one, but can not confirm or deny it through the EPA yet. I told him that it is the injection and exhaust that denotes the requirements, but he said I would have to prove when the engine was MADE, not what it was designed to fit to be able to import a Rover V8.
in the past we have imported engines under box W in the EPA form for a "non mounted engine", but EPA says this no longer flies. All engines, mounted or unmounted now must show EPA compliance certs. This is a recent change.
Agent Foley also told me I should "give up on importing parts" and just buy the stuff from the Land Rover dealers.

I'm no expert and I'm still baffled by most of what happened on Monday, but I can tell you importing stuff is getting much harder than it used to be. A friend in the sports cars business said he is seeing the same thing. He called it a "war path".
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  #56  
Old January 31st, 2007, 09:09 PM
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Mike, I think you mean, "not Axel Foley".

And on a related topic, how the heck are folks like "Dearborn Deuce" selling these "fake" 30's roadsters that start from nothing more than a list from a catalog?

New frame, new suspension, new engine, new trans, new body ... Noooo crash protection, etc ....

KAA

ed ... sorry, that's "Dearborn" Deuce.
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  #57  
Old February 1st, 2007, 11:35 AM
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Drug Zar

Mike, you need to get in with some drug zar and have him import Defender parts. I do not think that durgs have any problem entering this country. Hell, maybe some illegals can strap parts on their back when they cross the Rio in TX.

And what about Exxon? EPA are you reading this? Remeber the big oil spill?

http://money.cnn.com/2007/02/01/news...ex.htm?cnn=yes
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  #58  
Old February 1st, 2007, 12:15 PM
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I have multiple points/questions:
1)How do all these JDM companies import front clips and JDM motors from Japan without hitting any snags?
2)For those considering importing a 110 that is say a 1983 next year, what would the effect be of taking a 1983 to a rover "restoration" shop in the UK and upfitting it as you so desired and then importing it as a 1983 since it was to begin with and was just freshened up in the UK? Wouldn't that get you around this current issue with body parts and the like?
3)Would it be prudent for a group of us, if not all to write a letter seeking clarification from the higher levels of the EPA which would at least clear the fog surrounding all of this? At least it might put some of our observations out there and someone who isn't just an agent might give some better/more favorable interpretations that might be used later.

I'm sure there's things I'm overlooking in these questions but not sure I quite understand yet how a giant lego car can be penalized so much for wanting to replace a fender or an engine, hell LRNA does the same thing, if I blew my 4.0 they wouldn't have to put in 97
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  #59  
Old February 1st, 2007, 12:39 PM
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I have ...
Hey Chris, I am from Columbia and used to be gtg160m
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  #60  
Old February 1st, 2007, 05:25 PM
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What I would do Mike is just use Balitmore or someplace else that has so much real stuff to deal with they do not care. Portland probably has a hard on for you now.

You should specify that it is PARTS not a body shell, not anything else, just PARTS.

When I went to baltimore a few years back to get a truck my buddy imported (a 1976 rover with a nissan diesel this was circa 2002) I saw so many illegal cars parked there it was not even funny.

Bottom line is it costs money and time to fight the EPA and even if you win they will try to screw you on something else.

Ron

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