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  #1  
Old May 24th, 2015, 09:02 AM
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Crazy defender prices????

I've followed the rover market for some decades; but I've never noticed what's happening lately.
The prices of everything are going up a bit. But the defender used market?

Is anyone actually paying tens of thousands or even hundreds for Defenders? I see them advertised everywhere, and I never saw one sell. I cannot imagine that. Am I that out of touch and that lucky to run into them for under 10k USD? I see them on the market not selling for over a year at $15k. The guy I bought my exmod from is an entrepreneur that has a cousin in the UK that thinks americans will pay 20k for a 25 year old rover. They even wanted 22 for an exmod? Turns out he was wrong. They are going for what I thought they should. About 75% of that.
When I was searching- me-"I'll give you 10k for that", them- "oh I couldn't do that. 20 is as low as I'll go" me- "thanks, click" Them 2 weeks later "how about 15?"... etc on down below 10. Still getting emails from guys that haven't sold hoping i'm still in the market. Still can't unload their rovers.

Anyway. Are those 60k+ 25yo rovers just wishful thinking and money launderers or are people really thinking that these things are somehow worth anything? Is it market manipulation. I've seen some pretty slimy defender importers. Many of the guys that I know that are into selling rovers are real salesmen, other than being completely abrasive and living in fantasy land. Are they all in cahoots trying to drive prices? Jeep JK has it all over rovers in $40k--New and tricked out. Its not always logical.

Oh, also, maybe its aimed at canada... but a lot of clearly illegal (unimportable) rovers being offered on ebay. Otherwise legal rovers being advertised with illegal engines etc. The ads all claim its completely legal or "up to you" to figure out.

I am baffled by this market or attempt at a market.
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  #2  
Old May 24th, 2015, 09:10 AM
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Wait until the new Pumas are NLS in December.
You haven't seen crazy yet.
I know people buying new ones in Europe, so they can warehouse them and tripple the price for wealthy people who want new ones in the years to come.
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  #3  
Old May 24th, 2015, 09:13 AM
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Ben are those RHD trucks? Seems there are a ton of RHD trucks that aren't moving. LHD trucks that are priced well don't last for long.

This truck for example has been for sale all year.. If it was LHD id reckon it would be gone by now.


http://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/ctd/5038379550.html
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Old May 24th, 2015, 09:17 AM
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I am finding the best sellers are LHD 5 door 110s with a TDI mated to an auto transmission.
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  #5  
Old May 24th, 2015, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
Wait until the new Pumas are NLS in December.
You haven't seen crazy yet.
I know people buying new ones in Europe, so they can warehouse them and tripple the price for wealthy people who want new ones in the years to come.
Hey Robert, nothing new there- Ferarri even tried to make buyers sell back to the factory at one point trying to control such behavior. I think the uniqueness with Defenders is the heritage and length of run for basicly a single model spanning nearly 7 decades. And the unknown replacement just fuels the fire, and hence prices.

------ Follow up post added May 24th, 2015 09:21 AM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenix37 View Post
Ben are those RHD trucks? Seems there are a ton of RHD trucks that aren't moving. LHD trucks that are priced well don't last for long.

This truck for example has been for sale all year.. If it was LHD id reckon it would be gone by now.


land Rover defender 110

Used to be cheap and easy to convert RHD to LHD, but the cost of dashes and heater boxes and steering boxes has changed that. Thus, supply and demand make the difference in prices disproportionate.
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  #6  
Old May 24th, 2015, 09:25 AM
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Exactly..5k in parts 5k in labor to swap to LHD yet some RHD sellers expect to fetch the value of an LHD... market proves the demand is just not there for them.
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  #7  
Old May 24th, 2015, 09:27 AM
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Why do you think I'm keeping my Disco?
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  #8  
Old May 24th, 2015, 09:30 AM
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That's the thing. People are posting ads. The ads are staying for years. Is it a group of ignorant people thinking the market is there? I can buy a 2014 in GB for that price. Why would I ever dream of buying some importable thing for that? I've heard that their sales have gone up 25% this year due to the end of the line. I wonder how much of that is commercial sales though.

There are 2 markets. The commercial seller "selling" them for 50k plus and the private seller... usually advertising at 20k and probably selling closer to 10-25 depending on if there's a bidding war or just craigslist.

The question is... other than the random ignorant rich kid spending someone elses money that will pay anything... is anyone paying that price for a stock, good condition 110 wagon? or 120k for a 130? If so.. why wouldn't people just fly to ROW, buy one and ship it back. It would be 50% off at least. I can think of other markets that buying direct saves 50%+ but not in this price range.

Most on Ebay are around 20k by their end. A few nicely restored already in the US models get a bit more. For something like these, Ebay would probably be one of the best places to find the market as they are few enough and only enthusiasts would want them. I could see the "newest" importable version in PERFECT off the showroom floor restored condition plus upgrades to bring it into the 2000s technology and comfort wise could hit 50k or even more to the right person. But not something with a mile or 2 on it. They're about $3000 in GB in any condition other than that. Only because that's the price you'd pay for the same in GB if it was new.. and that's as good as you can get here.

The newer engines showing up should push the value up.. But that will be real value. They're just that much closer to modern vehicles. I appreciate how my truck is built like a 1950s pickup. Most people that would pay for one don't. And yes, I've owned Civvy petrol versions. They weren't much different from the Ex.

------ Follow up post added May 24th, 2015 09:34 AM ------

Yes, they are frequently selling RHD trucks.. and LHD DOES push up the price. This is my first RHD. I don't even notice it until some jag pulls up at the intersection and says something about it. Different story with my windowless wagon top on.

ROW includes mostly LHD countries. But I suppose outside GB and AU rovers aren't the big rage. That's nissan/toyota territory. MB and local trucks (and jeep) in russia.

------ Follow up post added May 24th, 2015 09:36 AM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenix37 View Post
Exactly..5k in parts 5k in labor to swap to LHD yet some RHD sellers expect to fetch the value of an LHD... market proves the demand is just not there for them.
What's labor?

When I was shopping trucks and could only find RHD. The info I found on swapping to LHD was "why bother?"
I found, through experience, I agree with that sentiment. Real handy when pulling up to Redbox to return movies. Getting the mail from the mail box... etc.
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  #9  
Old May 24th, 2015, 09:41 AM
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There are three markets.

1. NAS Trucks
2. ROW LHD
3. ROW RHD

Prices decline in that order...and the trucks that sit are usually owners that expect the same price as the category(s) above them.
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  #10  
Old May 24th, 2015, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by LuisC View Post
Why do you think I'm keeping my Disco?
Coz you're a cheap coon-ass..????

And for the morons out there I am just ribbing him... I actually like coonAss redneck bayou swamp people... They're a lot of fun and eat some great Cajun food..
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  #11  
Old May 24th, 2015, 10:07 AM
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Why does someone start this same thread every week? Just go read the one from last week.
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  #12  
Old May 24th, 2015, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by DefenderMd View Post
What's labor? When I was shopping trucks and could only find RHD. The info I found on swapping to LHD was "why bother?" I found, through experience, I agree with that sentiment. Real handy when pulling up to Redbox to return movies. Getting the mail from the mail box... etc.
Agree. I had the opportunity to change mine over, but I like the character of a RHD Defender and it probably makes it less attractive to non-enthusiast thieves.
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  #13  
Old May 24th, 2015, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenix37 View Post
There are three markets.

1. NAS Trucks
2. ROW LHD
3. ROW RHD

Prices decline in that order...and the trucks that sit are usually owners that expect the same price as the category(s) above them.
I think the consensus is agreement. Mostly. There doesn't seem to be much room between the aging NAS trucks and other LHDs. Neither hits huge numbers without help. Think its just the roll cage.


Thing that set me off is seeing these sales people talking about the prices on defendersource.. and no one says boo. Some seem to feign interest. I can see it happening on ebay sites coming from russia etc.. but not on one of the more savvy forums that has heavy USA membership.

Probably just forum etiquette/overlords. I'm not keen on protecting people's business... just because. It ain't capitalist! But common practice on the forums.. and I understand why it might be that way.

Also not keen on racial slurs. Maybe that's a cultural thing though. A homonym rather.

/thread.
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  #14  
Old May 24th, 2015, 10:49 AM
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There's a huge collector car bubble going right now across all marques, and it will burst in the coming years. Just sit back and wait, things will come back to reasonable prices again. Aside from NAS trucks, and the CT trucks, there is little to no provenance, and no world wide shortage on any of these, and for a lot of the "investors" the novelty of these trucks will wear off and the great Defender dump will begin.
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  #15  
Old May 24th, 2015, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by phoenix37 View Post
Ben are those RHD trucks? Seems there are a ton of RHD trucks that aren't moving. LHD trucks that are priced well don't last for long.

This truck for example has been for sale all year.. If it was LHD id reckon it would be gone by now.


land Rover defender 110
I would suspect the reason this one hasn't sold is because the person selling it is Bill Cox.
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Old May 24th, 2015, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by madcowdungbeetle View Post
There's a huge collector car bubble going right now across all marques, and it will burst in the coming years. Just sit back and wait, things will come back to reasonable prices again.
I 100% agree. With the popularity of TV shows like Fast & Loud and all the custom cars shows people are jumping into car collecting as if they know what they are doing. The last years Barrett Jackson and Russo Steele auctions here in Phoenix where crazy. American iron that were a dime a dozen a few years ago went for crazy money.
I think we are in the middle of a "fad" and in the next few years things will swing the other way and plenty of "collectors" will realize the work involved to keep them going and they will be happy to unload them like a bag full of Beanie Babies.
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  #17  
Old May 24th, 2015, 11:33 AM
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No one seems to be taking into account in increased cost of shipping, and storage fees.

Also the Defenders them selves have doubled on price in the UK. It's not just the U.S. Importable ones but everything Defender wise. Every one complains it's the sellers fault for such high prices. But they never take into account what it cost to, find these Rovers bring them, look over them, insure them, title them, market, keep them going. Can you go out and find a Rover for cheaper then business selling them? Of course you can but you need to do the leg work and take the risks.

If I could sell Defenders for $10k I would.
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Old May 24th, 2015, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by the rover shop View Post
Coz you're a cheap coon-ass..???? And for the morons out there I am just ribbing him... I actually like coonAss redneck bayou swamp people... They're a lot of fun and eat some great Cajun food..
No. Just a broke Coon-ass. Every time I start saving for a 110, something occurs that causes quick depletion of funds.

I figure there will be one in my future. Maybe another 5 years. X fingers.

I had a savings at one time. My Disco I bought new in 98. The stealer tried to make me wait it out for a Disco 2. But I was insistent on the D1 because of fewer electronics.

Should have bought the NAS D90 from my neighbor across the street. He sold it about the same time.
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Old May 24th, 2015, 11:43 AM
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Did not mean to come off harsh and apologize if I did.
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  #20  
Old May 24th, 2015, 12:01 PM
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Somehow Johan manages continues to find and sell high quality lhd 110s in this country at a fraction of the price of any other importer I've seen. Personally i judge all other ROW trucks against his imports/prices.
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