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  #61  
Old May 26th, 2015, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
It never makes sense to me. If you are rich, go over to Europe and by a brand new truck. Bring it over on a one year permit, then send back your beater
Fixed for you
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  #62  
Old May 26th, 2015, 10:33 PM
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Robert Lynch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chip View Post
I bet if LRNA knew it was rebuilt as a Puma they would revoke it...
Nonsense... there are 10,000 Hot rods and other "Up-fitted" bugs out there for every one o these...

if you have a truck and modify it within the states rules your fine. why would LRNA care?

our situation is the same as a hot-rodder...

If i want to put a new frame in - great
Convert to 5 door -- awesome
Go Diesel - Do it! and do what ever verification the state wants.
Add an automatic - Go for it no one cares..

Buy parts from europe - yep...
Order a whole puma truck through the dealership parts counter... No one is going to stop you

Run Veg oil - whatever you want fry guy..

The US Gov care about IMPORTing trucks which don't meet standard.. Cool got it..
Don't import one - build it..

If they cared about Puma motors don't you think they would have gone all "Terminator" on the 1000's of 300tdi's already imported and installed in the Disco, RR, and Defenders out there...

Nope.. they don't care about that... they care about importing a non-compliant truck.
LRNA could lock down the parts counters to country specific items but thats about it.
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  #63  
Old May 26th, 2015, 10:43 PM
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That could all be true if you're registering it as hot rod or reman or kit. Usually we don't worry about such. Federal law is very limited in reaching into states. And of course federal law and local enforcement are cometely different. Federally speaking... Most of what you said would indeed be illegal. But after import, that is largely irrelavent in reality. Heck we have an entire aftermarket built on illegal exhaust systems. Illegal fuel systems etc. But no one has authority to inspect and few municipalities would enforce if they could. According to dot you can't do much to your car.
Why you think most of the stuff in all catalouges says "track/Offroad use only"
Lrna has a lot to lose from building a bad rep with dot or the public. Defender has not but bad rep to give really.
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  #64  
Old May 26th, 2015, 10:46 PM
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It is all fine if you can prove it was a truly "built" vehicle and not simply a VIN swap from a NAS truck to a Puma truck.....
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  #65  
Old May 26th, 2015, 11:12 PM
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yep that was my point.. same thing as a Hot rod corvette (nova, pontiac, Jeep, or whatever).

VIN swap and you get what you deserve.. Document everything and get it verified when required.. on a NAS truck.

branded title trucks would be perfect for this..

How many thousands of JDM engines are slammed into Civics every year?

YMMV... but the one thing i am not talking about is importing a truck and trying to pass it off as something else..
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  #66  
Old May 26th, 2015, 11:27 PM
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I think "track/offroad use only" stems from lack of product testing to meet safety requirements or straight lack of meeting DOT/NHTSA requirements. Not that it doesn't, just that it hasn't actually been certified to.

The rest of the changes vary state to state with what's allowable. You can do practically anything you want in Mississippi. Just have to keep the lights, horn, wipers, windshield, and tint working and legal.
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  #67  
Old May 26th, 2015, 11:52 PM
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Yeah, of course LRNA couldn't really revoke the VIN plate, but they could report the vehicle to the feds if they cared, and yeah you're right that they probably don't care. It's also true it's extremely unlikely anyone will get in trouble for installing the Puma engine in that NAS truck, but it is still illegal, and to me it wouldn't be worth the risk potentially getting fined. The people who can afford that truck probably don't care if they get assessed a $2,500 fine anyways, but you'd think the business who built it would care, since they could be fined $25,000 for each violation according to the EPA's engine switching fact sheet.

This paragraph explicitly declares installing a Puma engine into a US Defender is a violation of federal law:
"Another situation recently brought to EPA's attention involves the offering for sale of used foreign-built
engines. These engines are often not covered by a certified configuration for any vehicle sold in this
country. In such a case, there is no way to install such an engine legally. EPA has recently brought
enforcement actions against certain parties who have violated the tampering prohibition by performing
illegal engine switches."

To be legal, this is what the EPA says:
"For light-duty vehicles, installation of a light-duty engine into a different light-duty vehicle by any
person would be considered tampering unless the resulting vehicle is identical (with regard to all
emission related parts, engine design parameters, and engine calibrations) to a certified configuration of
the same or newer model year as the vehicle chassis, or if there is a reasonable basis for knowing that
emissions are not adversely affected." So it is legal to put an engine that wasn't "certified" in a different vehicle if the emissions it produces are equal or lower than the emissions produced by the engine it is replacing. They clarify that here: "This policy states that EPA will not consider any modification to a "certified
configuration" to be a violation of federal law if there is a reasonable basis for knowing that emissions
are not adversely affected."

What's interesting is that installing any diesel engine into a US Defender is a violation of federal law, which is clarified in the paragraph below, but is also illegal due to the fact those diesel engines produce more emissions than the originally installed gasoline V8.
"Another type of engine switching which commonly occurs, however, involves
diesel powered vehicles where the diesel engine is removed and replaced with a gasoline engine.
Applying the above policy, such a replacement is legal only if the resulting engine-chassis configuration
is equivalent to a certified configuration of the same model year or newer as the chassis. If the vehicle
chassis in question has been certified with gasoline, as well as diesel engines(as is common), such a
conversion could be done legally. " No US Defender has been certified with a diesel engine. But again, it looks like people aren't getting in trouble for it. It's still not worth the risk to me though.
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  #68  
Old May 28th, 2015, 02:54 PM
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Another good pricing example.
http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/n...006222555.html
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  #69  
Old May 28th, 2015, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeBeCinYa View Post
The passenger door was painted a different color white, but don't worry-the seller hasn't had any issues with it
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  #70  
Old May 28th, 2015, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Ray_G View Post
The passenger door was painted a different color white, but don't worry-the seller hasn't had any issues with it
That, and the tough looking dent on the front left. Since when do titles become salvaged because of repossession? I bought a repo car in NC, no SAL title.
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  #71  
Old May 28th, 2015, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeBeCinYa View Post
Another good pricing example.
**1995** Landrover Defender 90
Dgood example of some on dreaming. Not in their market... But they'd be stealing to sell it at 30. And to the 6 figure 110... Ha ha ha ha... Someone got taken or was just laundering money. If it ever happened...
Then again. If its one offs... That's what I was talking about. An idiot buys a 20k car for 115k does it adjust the market. Plenty of idiots out there... But they don't buy cars all day. It doesn't adjust the market in reality.
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  #72  
Old May 28th, 2015, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeBeCinYa View Post
Another good pricing example.
**1995** Landrover Defender 90
"tip top condition"
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  #73  
Old May 28th, 2015, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgreenspan View Post
I think "track/offroad use only" stems from lack of product testing to meet safety requirements or straight lack of meeting DOT/NHTSA requirements. Not that it doesn't, just that it hasn't actually been certified to.

The rest of the changes vary state to state with what's allowable. You can do practically anything you want in Mississippi. Just have to keep the lights, horn, wipers, windshield, and tint working and legal.
Yes with an if, no with a but. If its fuel, intake,emissions. It doesn't need testing. It just has to be exactly the same form and function of OEM. Dot/epa. Bumpers... Straight illegal no matter what... In reality anyway.

Point is... States don't enforce. Its federal law.
Just that land rover importers have proven to be criminals. That attracted attention. Invoke the customs version of stop and frisk.

------ Follow up post added May 28th, 2015 03:32 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Z.G View Post
"tip top condition"
Regardless of condition. The person buying a 50k rover 90 is not likely making the decision based on value. That's throwing money away. Especially now that I can import a model of nearly the same age with better options.
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  #74  
Old May 28th, 2015, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeBeCinYa View Post
That, and the tough looking dent on the front left. Since when do titles become salvaged because of repossession? I bought a repo car in NC, no SAL title.
I'm thinking he sees the VIN number on the title start with SAL... and thinks it was salvaged at one time without even looking at the VINs on the vehicle.
Someone run a carfax to check it out. Regardless, he is still priced $20-25k too high.
SALDV3288SA975021
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  #75  
Old May 28th, 2015, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeBeCinYa View Post
Another good pricing example.
**1995** Landrover Defender 90
I just like how the hellas are aimed.
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  #76  
Old May 28th, 2015, 04:36 PM
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I just like how the hellas are aimed.
They're aimed for coon hunting in trees. Lmao
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  #77  
Old May 28th, 2015, 04:37 PM
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I think I'm going to add some dents to my D90 to make it look tougher
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  #78  
Old May 28th, 2015, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z.G View Post
"tip top condition"
Curious...Is "tip top" better than "well sorted"...I'm confused...

MTR upgrade $900.00, what did he just buy three? All for 50K....wow...
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  #79  
Old May 28th, 2015, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Larson View Post
Curious...Is "tip top" better than "well sorted"...I'm confused...

MTR upgrade $900.00, what did he just buy three? All for 50K....wow...
For $900, I could make mine a Hella edition. And then it would be worth way more than 50k...
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  #80  
Old May 28th, 2015, 07:08 PM
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Can I get away with calling mine a Hella version in red? tip top

(picture didn't make it)
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