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  #21  
Old August 28th, 2012, 09:22 AM
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In all of the Cowboy movies, the snake bites were fatal to the Cowboys. Are you telling me that a small dog can survive a snake bite. Could Hollywood have lied to me all these years?

So it isn't so!

(Speedy receovery for your dog - glad to hear he is OK.)
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  #22  
Old August 28th, 2012, 09:48 AM
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don't see how you could vacinate for hemotoxic venom. On my last dove hunting trip to Texas one of the retrievers-a young lab was hit by a large rattler during the late afternoon hunt. He didn't make it through the night. I have heard a statistic that there are no recorded human fatalities from a copperhead bite. Not sure if thats factual but would lead one to believe that coperheads have less powerfull venom than rattlesnakes and cottonmouths. All three have the same hemotoxic type venom that basically erodes flesh.
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  #23  
Old August 28th, 2012, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 130Tdi View Post
don't see how you could vacinate for hemotoxic venom. On my last dove hunting trip to Texas one of the retrievers-a young lab was hit by a large rattler during the late afternoon hunt. He didn't make it through the night. I have heard a statistic that there are no recorded human fatalities from a copperhead bite. Not sure if thats factual but would lead one to believe that coperheads have less powerfull venom than rattlesnakes and cottonmouths. All three have the same hemotoxic type venom that basically erodes flesh.
When mine got bit the vet told me that he was lucky it was a copperhead. She said she treats dozens of dogs each year that get bitten by copperheads and the only one she lost was a little wiener dog. On the flip side, she had only seen a couple of rattlesnake bites and none made it.
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  #24  
Old August 28th, 2012, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by cwilder View Post
Copperheads are also more aggressive.
BS. Neither species is aggressive. Like all snakes, they'd rather be left alone than be "aggressive" towards a potential predator that is orders of magnitude larger than them (e.g., human, dog, cat, whatever). Snakes get a bad rap.

------ Follow up post added August 28th, 2012 07:27 AM ------

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Originally Posted by 101stAirborne View Post
I know the difference between a water moccasin and a water snake.
Good. Most people don't.

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Originally Posted by 101stAirborne View Post
Dogs leg is swollen twice the normal size from the hip down. He's coming home today.
Glad he's OK.
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  #25  
Old August 28th, 2012, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 130Tdi View Post
don't see how you could vacinate for hemotoxic venom. On my last dove hunting trip to Texas one of the retrievers-a young lab was hit by a large rattler during the late afternoon hunt. He didn't make it through the night. I have heard a statistic that there are no recorded human fatalities from a copperhead bite. Not sure if thats factual but would lead one to believe that coperheads have less powerfull venom than rattlesnakes and cottonmouths. All three have the same hemotoxic type venom that basically erodes flesh.
Western Diamondbacks are very common in many parts of Texas, and their venom is much more toxic than a copperhead (or a cottonmouth).

Although the venom of copperheads, cottonmouths, and rattlesnakes all have some hemotoxic properties, it's not quite that simple. Venom (which is really just modified saliva) is really a "cocktail" of different proteins, enzymes, and other chemicals. The composition varies by species, and sometimes even within populations of the same species. Venom serves two purposes - to immobilize prey, and to aid in digestion. The digestion part is what causes the necrosis (tissue death) that often accompanies pitviper bites.

------ Follow up post added August 28th, 2012 07:40 AM ------

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Originally Posted by jefhuf View Post
Did you see the snake? Only reason I ask is whether you know if it was an adult or baby. Luckily for my pooch, he was bit by an adult and therefore took on less venom.
It's a myth that young snakes deliver more venom than adults because they don't/can't/won't meter the amount of venom they inject.
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  #26  
Old August 28th, 2012, 12:22 PM
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You seem to have an unusually well rounded knowledge of snakes. Are you a Herpetologist?
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  #27  
Old August 28th, 2012, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by tommyd View Post

------ Follow up post added August 28th, 2012 07:40 AM ------



It's a myth that young snakes deliver more venom than adults because they don't/can't/won't meter the amount of venom they inject.
Really? The vet even made the comment...at the end of the day, I am not sure that it truly matters or not
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  #28  
Old August 28th, 2012, 01:55 PM
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Western Diamondbacks are very common in many parts of Texas,
Yep. Shot one that challenged me on my last trip. Brought my son the large 6 button rattle.
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  #29  
Old August 28th, 2012, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
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You seem to have an unusually well rounded knowledge of snakes. Are you a Herpetologist?
Yes.

------ Follow up post added August 28th, 2012 10:57 AM ------

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Originally Posted by jefhuf View Post
Really? The vet even made the comment...at the end of the day, I am not sure that it truly matters or not
Yeah, it's a myth that people seem to really believe. There's just no evidence. Bigger snakes have the capability to deliver more venom, simple as that. It's estimated that about half of all bites are dry bites (i.e., no venom is injected).
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  #30  
Old August 28th, 2012, 03:57 PM
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Just got back from my vet for their anti-venom shots.

Confirmed with him 50-75mg benadryl (antihistamine) 3x a day if struck

He said most bites they don't inject venom if it's a defensive reaction (?) and added the anti-venom is just to build up in the system to reduce the effects of a bite

tommyd, the board herp, what say you?
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  #31  
Old August 28th, 2012, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by texrover View Post
Just got back from my vet for their anti-venom shots.

Confirmed with him 50-75mg benadryl (antihistamine) 3x a day if struck

He said most bites they don't inject venom if it's a defensive reaction (?) and added the anti-venom is just to build up in the system to reduce the effects of a bite

tommyd, the board herp, what say you?
About which part? If you're saying you got your dogs vaccinated, I'd say you should find a new vet. Check out the article I've attached. I didn't write it, but the second author is a well-respected emergency vet that specializes in venomous snakebite.

As for your second question, it's estimated that about half of (pitviper) bites are dry. The idea behind the vaccine is to reduce the effects of a bite, but the problem is there's no evidence that it works.
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  #32  
Old August 28th, 2012, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by tommyd View Post
About which part? If you're saying you got your dogs vaccinated, I'd say you should find a new vet. Check out the article I've attached. I didn't write it, but the second author is a well-respected emergency vet that specializes in venomous snakebite.

As for your second question, it's estimated that about half of (pitviper) bites are dry. The idea behind the vaccine is to reduce the effects of a bite, but the problem is there's no evidence that it works.
Is the antihistamine effective?

My vet is a bird hunter so I assume his advice comes from field experience but hey everyone has an opinion and I'm sure there are differences of opinion

By dogs are bird dogs and always in snake country so I'm just trying to take precautions.
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  #33  
Old August 28th, 2012, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by texrover View Post
Is the antihistamine effective?

My vet is a bird hunter so I assume his advice comes from field experience but hey everyone has an opinion and I'm sure there are differences of opinion

By dogs are bird dogs and always in snake country so I'm just trying to take precautions.
I have to say I'm not sure about the antihistamine; there's a section about it in the article I've attached above.

As far as the vaccine, sure, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But the fact is this vaccine has no scientific evidence to back it up. The problem I have with it is that it may give some people a false sense of security. I.e., if my dog is bitten, she'll be OK because she's been vaccinated. Wrong. False advertising at its worst.

I'm all for taking precautions. I hunt as well, and have a wide-ranging bird dog (German shorthaired pointer). It's always my biggest fear when she's off leash, especially in Texas. My wife's dog growing up (a springer) was bitten twice on two separate occasions by Western Diamondbacks and somehow survived. Sadly, a good friend of ours lost a dog to snakebite a couple years ago, and another family friend lost their Brittany last month in South Texas.

Best advice I can give if your dog is ever bitten is simply to get them to a vet as quickly as possible.
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  #34  
Old August 28th, 2012, 05:19 PM
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Thanks Tom.



BTW, I've got two GWP's (Drahthaar's). Good luck hunting this year.
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  #35  
Old August 28th, 2012, 07:17 PM
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My dogs are going to snake school. Love them too much and have too much invested in them for them to not be able to identify snakes.
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  #36  
Old August 28th, 2012, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by 101stAirborne View Post
I know the difference between a water moccasin and a water snake.

Dogs leg is swollen twice the normal size from the hip down. He's coming home today.
Good to hear your little guy is gonna make it. Hopefully no permanent damage.
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  #37  
Old August 28th, 2012, 07:58 PM
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Thanks Tom.
You're welcome Jason.

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BTW, I've got two GWP's (Drahthaar's).
Great dogs.

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Good luck hunting this year.
You too.

Here's my girl:
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  #38  
Old August 28th, 2012, 07:59 PM
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My dogs are going to snake school. Love them too much and have too much invested in them for them to not be able to identify snakes.
Hope it works for you. Let us know how they do.
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  #39  
Old August 28th, 2012, 08:10 PM
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argh, hate snakes.
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  #40  
Old August 28th, 2012, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by tommyd


Here's my girl:
Great looking GSP!

Here are my two goobers. They'll be doing some retrieving in snake country this weekend:



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