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  #121  
Old January 10th, 2014, 10:48 PM
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In some states, you can clear a salvage title. Basically you buy a salvage vehicle and rebuild it and then have it inspected. Some states this is now a "reconstructed" title and, I would guess, some states the title is not branded at all. It will always have a salvage history on carfax, but what is on the title varies state to state and you have to do due diligence because the states vary a lot.

Other than resale, a salvage defender, especially a flood, would not bother me if I could inspect it before buying.
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  #122  
Old January 11th, 2014, 01:44 AM
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I want to see this "clear" title...




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  #123  
Old January 11th, 2014, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by evilfij View Post
Other than resale, a salvage defender, especially a flood, would not bother me if I could inspect it before buying.
Agreed.
A one time, high water river flooding is much less damaging long term than the constant sea air/salt corrosion or snow treated roads of the northeast.
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  #124  
Old January 11th, 2014, 12:28 PM
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I agree that the damage done by the flood to a Land Rover Defender is not likely very substantial. And I agree it can be brought back to life in a cost effective manner.

But the real damage done to the vehicle in question is by the previous owner and his insurance company. When an insurance company makes a big payoff to a specialty vehicle like a NAS 1993 D110 you can be assured they will identify its status as a salvage vehicle not fit for the road nationwide. Because of the monies surrendered due to its demise. And Insurance companies in general have adopted a policy often mimicked and rarely perfected as put forth by our Federal Government. They are not happy until you are not happy.

I believe the salvage title paperwork the insurance company submits, often is not completely filed and not all the agencies notified in most cases. But you can bet on a vehicle of this "status" in the insurance community, it will be identified and all agencies notified of its 'not fit for the road' "status" Both internal to the insurance community and nationwide to its "unfit for the road, salvage" 'status'

What if the new owner gets in an accident with another vehicle that happens to have the same insurance or subsidiary of the company that made the big payoff to the previous owner. They would have records of the vehicle as totaled and 'not fit for the road' That Insurance company or any individual harmed would be in a legal stance to declare the vehicle in question unfit to be insured and may be in a position to sue the current owner of the vehicle for damages or loss of life. This is my opinion.

The real shame here is that the vehicle was salvaged in the first place. I do not know the previous owner or the circumstance surrounding the flood and damage to the vehicle. And I understand that he held insurance to cover his loss. But the right thing to do with such a rare vehicle like a NAS 1993 D110 would have been to demand your insurance company pay to have the vehicle repaired. Or to take an insurance payoff that included monies to repair the vehicle and kept the status of the vehicle as fit for the road to be repaired. As well as kept ownership of the vehicle. Then the vehicle could have been sold on in its current condition in good faith. As Defender owners here on this forum I think we should educate each other that is the right thing to do with these rare vehicles. Perhaps we can educate each other with specific examples of dealings with insurance companies that pertain to this type of vehicle being totaled. How can we negotiate with the insurance companies to repair the vehicles or make a payoff that we can retain ownership and carry out repairs ourselves at out discretion. They make inspections before offering full coverage so the vehicle would need to be repaired to their satisfaction before "full coverage" could be offered again. For the current owner or anyone else who purchased the vehicle.
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  #125  
Old January 11th, 2014, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by pendy View Post
I agree that the damage done by the flood to a Land Rover Defender is not likely very substantial. And I agree it can be brought back to life in a cost effective manner.

But the real damage done to the vehicle in question is by the previous owner and his insurance company. When an insurance company makes a big payoff to a specialty vehicle like a NAS 1993 D110 you can be assured they will identify its status as a salvage vehicle not fit for the road nationwide. Because of the monies surrendered due to its demise. And Insurance companies in general have adopted a policy often mimicked and rarely perfected as put forth by our Federal Government. They are not happy until you are not happy.

I believe the salvage title paperwork the insurance company submits, often is not completely filed and not all the agencies notified in most cases. But you can bet on a vehicle of this "status" in the insurance community, it will be identified and all agencies notified of its 'not fit for the road' "status" Both internal to the insurance community and nationwide to its "unfit for the road, salvage" 'status'

What if the new owner gets in an accident with another vehicle that happens to have the same insurance or subsidiary of the company that made the big payoff to the previous owner. They would have records of the vehicle as totaled and 'not fit for the road' That Insurance company or any individual harmed would be in a legal stance to declare the vehicle in question unfit to be insured and may be in a position to sue the current owner of the vehicle for damages or loss of life. This is my opinion.

The real shame here is that the vehicle was salvaged in the first place. I do not know the previous owner or the circumstance surrounding the flood and damage to the vehicle. And I understand that he held insurance to cover his loss. But the right thing to do with such a rare vehicle like a NAS 1993 D110 would have been to demand your insurance company pay to have the vehicle repaired. Or to take an insurance payoff that included monies to repair the vehicle and kept the status of the vehicle as fit for the road to be repaired. As well as kept ownership of the vehicle. Then the vehicle could have been sold on in its current condition in good faith. As Defender owners here on this forum I think we should educate each other that is the right thing to do with these rare vehicles. Perhaps we can educate each other with specific examples of dealings with insurance companies that pertain to this type of vehicle being totaled. How can we negotiate with the insurance companies to repair the vehicles or make a payoff that we can retain ownership and carry out repairs ourselves at out discretion. They make inspections before offering full coverage so the vehicle would need to be repaired to their satisfaction before "full coverage" could be offered again. For the current owner or anyone else who purchased the vehicle.
I could not have said this any better myself! Bravo, sir! And, if ever I find myself in your neck of the woods, the first round is on me!
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  #126  
Old January 11th, 2014, 01:37 PM
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From personal experience, in NC, I took the chance and repaired a 'salvage nonrebuildable' branded title/Rover from Ca. I got the required bond, had all work done and inspected, and my DMV officer submitted the packet for a title. It got rejected- yet she called the top dog in Raleigh on my behalf, and was told quite curtly- 'salvage nonrebuildable' means just that, and no titled was issued. She did hint that two vehicles could be combined to make one, as long as the predominant vehicle had clear title- even salvage, but clear. The title would then be issued combining both VINs- I chose not to pursue this route.

One other huge point- these vehicular laws are both Federal and State is my understanding, and can be conflicting. Also, the majority of the laws were written back in the 30's to control the new onslaught of vehicles on the road. Manufacturing and materials as well as quantity of vehicles was waaaay different. Trying to apply these laws to todays vehicles is difficult at best, and in the end, due diligence is paramount. The level of acceptable risk varies from person to person, which makes each vehicle value fluctuate as soon as there is a 'story'…

Now, I just got a letter today from DMV concerning an '89 Transalp I bought last month- wrong number of characters on the VIN apparently. Now the fun begins, weather a $2k motorcycle, or $100k Defender- DMV could care less- and rightfully so from their perspective!
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  #127  
Old January 11th, 2014, 01:54 PM
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To me, the most annoying part of this rare vehicle being sold as parts is that an obvious scumbag has bought it at relatively cheap price at auction to flip it in a sketchy manner where an actual enthusiast could have picked this up for the parts value and rebuilt a crusty import to a semi decent spec.
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  #128  
Old January 11th, 2014, 04:41 PM
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I completely agree with this statement. But the fact is it has happened probably 100's of times since 1993 with these vehicles. Fires, floods, accidents and self inflicted injuries from overinsured owners cashing in on the system. Then pick up artists glossing them up to put them back in circulation at a hefty markup with a questionable title history. I am sure many an owner has been dissuaded from these type situations that are members of this forum. I think the lesson is do not let the vehicle become totalled if it is repairable in the case of NAS Land Rover Defender.


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Originally Posted by mgreenspan View Post
To me, the most annoying part of this rare vehicle being sold as parts is that an obvious scumbag has bought it at relatively cheap price at auction to flip it in a sketchy manner where an actual enthusiast could have picked this up for the parts value and rebuilt a crusty import to a semi decent spec.
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  #129  
Old January 11th, 2014, 07:03 PM
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I think the lesson is do not let the vehicle become totalled if it is repairable in the case of NAS Land Rover Defender.
Is there ever a point where a NAS Defender isn't worth repairing? I feel like a title and VIN plate would be worth a good amount on their own.
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  #130  
Old January 11th, 2014, 08:33 PM
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Is there ever a point where a NAS Defender isn't worth repairing? I feel like a title and VIN plate would be worth a good amount on their own.
A NAS Defender should probably never be totaled or labeled salvage. Even a crusty burn victim is worth $10k if it retains a clear title. The VIN with a clear title is worth upwards of $10k.
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  #131  
Old January 11th, 2014, 09:24 PM
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you (we) all are a bunch enthusiast wrenchers that know this...and can repair/fix/restore...not an insurance adjuster. Pretty much it is an emotionless financial decision.
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  #132  
Old January 13th, 2014, 08:07 AM
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I looked at the auction and it is in Decatur, GA. Not that far from me. Kinda want to go take a look at it.

The auction doesn't say the name of the shop that has it. Any idea where it is physically located?
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  #133  
Old January 13th, 2014, 08:12 AM
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I looked at the auction and it is in Decatur, GA. Not that far from me. Kinda want to go take a look at it. The auction doesn't say the name of the shop that has it. Any idea where it is physically located?
I think if you google his number it comes up.
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  #134  
Old January 13th, 2014, 09:12 AM
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I've spoken with, Wayne, the actual owner. I've been told that the 110 was listed for sale in error by the gentleman who owns the shop he does business with. He has several vehicles stored there with them and the 110 was not meant to be advertised among the vehicles that he currently has for sale. He is just as aware of the 110's title situation as I am. At the moment, he is out of town on account of the loss of a close family friend and, as such, he has not yet taken the time to address having the 110 taken off of eBay.

In addition, I would like to address some of the comments made by those on this forum regarding Wayne. There are many of you that likely haven't been around the Land Rover world long enough to know that I used to work with the Wayne back in my college days. I've known Wayne a long time and I would like to make it clear that he is a gentleman and an upstanding individual. Those who've met him will tell you however, that he is very succinct and too the point. And, I understand that there are those people that may interpret that negatively. But, I can honestly tell you that I've never known Wayne to intentionally misrepresent anything. When I got in touch with him about the eBay ad on the 110, he told me what I've already stated above.

So, once again, the 110 is not for sale. At any rate, I hope this helps quell some of the animosity surrounding this truck.
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  #135  
Old January 13th, 2014, 09:34 AM
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I've been told that the 110 was listed for sale in error by the gentleman who owns the shop he does business with.
Well then I take back what I said a few posts earlier about him being a scumbag(but that was really for the place selling it), the place he's storing it at I assume didn't know about the title issues? Do you know what his plans are for the vehicle?
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  #136  
Old January 13th, 2014, 09:47 AM
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Well then I take back what I said a few posts earlier about him being a scumbag(but that was really for the place selling it), the place he's storing it at I assume didn't know about the title issues? Do you know what his plans are for the vehicle?
The guy who put it up for sale knows/knew it had title issues. Wayne had said he was looking to convert it from manual to auto.
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  #137  
Old January 13th, 2014, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by mgreenspan View Post
Do you know what his plans are for the vehicle?
Well, despite the flood and resulting title issue, the 110, as it turns out, is surprisingly clean. Wayne told me it cranked up on the first try. He also told me it is the nicest 110 he's ever bought from an insurance auction. And, that's saying something, because he's bought and sold quite a few of these over the years. Albeit, most of the previous 110's were a bit more on the "crispy" side. I know of at least 4 members on the board who have bought salvage 110's from Wayne and I know several more who have bought 90's from him, one of which includes my own brother.

Honestly, it's not really my business what Wayne does with his vehicles, so I can't say that I've asked. If I were to guess, I'd say it will likely end up being used down on his farm.

In follow-up: I'm certain that the shop owner was aware of the salvage flood history. However, as stated previously, Wayne has bought and sold a fair number of salvage Defenders. Some he fixes and sells and others he sells as-is for others to fix. Given the good overall condition of this 110, and without knowing more than that the truck had been flooded and salvaged, I would wager the shop owner just assumed that Wayne would be getting a title for it. Seems like an honest mistake to me.
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  #138  
Old January 13th, 2014, 01:38 PM
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I bought a burned up 90 from Wayne a few years ago. He never misrepresented it in anyway and I knew exactly what I was getting. Of course the price was a lot lower too. I thought about trying to register it but it had a "certificate of destruction" from FL so I took the parts I needed and sold the rest. He never led me to believe it could be registered, that was up to me to figure out. I would agree with your statement about the way he communicates, but it never was an issue for me.
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  #139  
Old January 13th, 2014, 01:44 PM
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Must be thrilling to have a shop owner selling your vehicles without permission.
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  #140  
Old January 13th, 2014, 02:30 PM
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Its now bid up to 90K.
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