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  #41  
Old November 1st, 2013, 11:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by transientmechanic View Post
Will, no title states do not require titles for old vehicles specifically because situations like this are ridiculous. Clearly you are very educated in the letter of the law and I won't argue with you. I will respectfully disagree about liability, intent, felonious acts, etc.

Where is the "federal law" that says I can not register this vehicle in a no title state? I would like to educate myself if I am incorrect.
Adam,

Federal law utilizes an extension of common law fraud. I'm happy to do your homework for you, but as an attorney, we've kind of reached the point where I won't continue doing so for free. Respectfully disagree with whatever you like, but rest assure that I'm certainly not going to aid anyone in the commission of a crime.

P.S.- No title states do not require titles for old vehicles that are titled, but the title is unable to be found. And they will accept titles for vehicles if they exist. However, this is a very different situation from where a title that has been cancelled/destroyed. You're basically claiming. "Ooops, I lost my title", when that actually isn't the case at all. Again, fraud.
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  #42  
Old November 1st, 2013, 11:13 PM
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Will,
On the contrary I do get it. The fact that the VINs are still on the truck and have not been mutilated or tampered with and will pass muster with a State police inspection/investigation into the VIN will get the truck either a state issued VIN as often happens or it can be "registered" in a non-title state, I said with full disclosure and I meant it. Insurers will require an inspection but most would have no issue insuring the truck for road use again either. Vehicles are built by enthusiasts from piles of parts and registered daily. Many states have extremely lax requirements for street rods or historic vehicles. Historic being defined as 20 yrs old in many states. 93 110's are 20yrs old now. I said where there is a will there is a way and there are a myriad of ways. Dicovich (sp?) on this site rebuilt a parts only wreck and was issued a state issued VIN.

I bought a rolled defender @ an insurance auction (where the title had been surrendered) as parts salvage, in Utah. I brought the truck back to Maryland. I made an apt and took the carcass to the state police and had them inspect it before I did anything to it. They took pictures did some research and called me a week later and said no problem proceed and fix it. When I was done they re-inspected the truck and Maryland dmv issued me a correct title for a 94 defender 90 with the original VIN. I sold the truck several years later and that guy was able to get a bank loan to buy the truck. This was 2006, so not yesterday.
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  #43  
Old November 2nd, 2013, 02:15 AM
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There was a guy here on the forum that bought a "parts only" NAS 90 from an auction like this and brought it from I believe Louisiana to his home state of Washington. He did an amazing restore on it. I mean BEAUTIFUL. Problem was he only had the parts only bill of sale and couldn't ever get it titled. I think he tried for over a year to title it and never could. I almost bought it from him to try to title in CA, but did a ton of research and found it would be very hard or impossible to title here as well. There was a thread on the topic & his truck. I'll try and find it
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  #44  
Old November 2nd, 2013, 03:04 AM
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There is no such thing as title in Canada, looks like it should come up here to be fixed up and put back on the road.
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  #45  
Old November 2nd, 2013, 08:29 AM
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How come we keep citing federal laws??? They only apply to vehicles road worthiness, usage and stuff like EPA...TITLING a vehicle is a state run gig. And as many have said is something that can be done in some states without an existing title.

Hey Mr/Ms behind the counter - "I need to title this vehicle in said state" -
"Do you have the old title?"
"No sir/maam - here is a bill of sale form from the auction house"
"OK fill out this form, get it inspected and we will mail you a new one"

DONE
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  #46  
Old November 2nd, 2013, 08:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surf90 View Post
There was a guy here on the forum that bought a "parts only" NAS 90 from an auction like this and brought it from I believe Louisiana to his home state of Washington. He did an amazing restore on it. I mean BEAUTIFUL. Problem was he only had the parts only bill of sale and couldn't ever get it titled. I think he tried for over a year to title it and never could. I almost bought it from him to try to title in CA, but did a ton of research and found it would be very hard or impossible to title here as well. There was a thread on the topic & his truck. I'll try and find it
I know the 90 you speak of, and he actually bought here in NC, from a salvage dealer up in Shelby. The 90 was sold over eBay as I recall. Many of the replacement parts for that rebuild were sourced by Dale (RoverTrader). Dale did not do the rebuild though (I believe it was done by Rebornco, also in Shelby) and the truck was shipped to Washington State. No, he did not get a title, which was his reason for selling the 90.
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  #47  
Old November 2nd, 2013, 08:41 AM
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Will I appreciate your lawyerly knowledge and you are a smart businessperson to say that you will not expound on the subject for free.

Likewise, I will say that if anybody is seriously interested in investigating the possibility of registering or titling a vehicle like this Defender please contact me directly...
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  #48  
Old November 2nd, 2013, 08:42 AM
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Will Hedrick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Douglas View Post
Will, On the contrary I do get it. The fact that the VINs are still on the truck and have not been mutilated or tampered with and will pass muster with a State police inspection/investigation into the VIN will get the truck either a state issued VIN as often happens or it can be "registered" in a non-title state, I said with full disclosure and I meant it. Insurers will require an inspection but most would have no issue insuring the truck for road use again either. Vehicles are built by enthusiasts from piles of parts and registered daily. Many states have extremely lax requirements for street rods or historic vehicles. Historic being defined as 20 yrs old in many states. 93 110's are 20yrs old now. I said where there is a will there is a way and there are a myriad of ways. Dicovich (sp?) on this site rebuilt a parts only wreck and was issued a state issued VIN. I bought a rolled defender @ an insurance auction (where the title had been surrendered) as parts salvage, in Utah. I brought the truck back to Maryland. I made an apt and took the carcass to the state police and had them inspect it before I did anything to it. They took pictures did some research and called me a week later and said no problem proceed and fix it. When I was done they re-inspected the truck and Maryland dmv issued me a correct title for a 94 defender 90 with the original VIN. I sold the truck several years later and that guy was able to get a bank loan to buy the truck. This was 2006, so not yesterday.
A lot of things changed after Hurricane Katrina. With all the flood damaged cars that came out of that disaster, a federal task force was put together with the express purpose of tracking vehicle titles to prevent the fraudulent sale of junked vehicles. See the .gov website I linked to in one of my earlier posts.
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  #49  
Old November 2nd, 2013, 08:46 AM
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Let me buy it so I can use it as a hunting rig at my camp.
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  #50  
Old November 2nd, 2013, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonesy View Post
How come we keep citing federal laws??? They only apply to vehicles road worthiness, usage and stuff like EPA...TITLING a vehicle is a state run gig. And as many have said is something that can be done in some states without an existing title. Hey Mr/Ms behind the counter - "I need to title this vehicle in said state" - "Do you have the old title?" "No sir/maam - here is a bill of sale form from the auction house" "OK fill out this form, get it inspected and we will mail you a new one" DONE
In your scenario, you are conveniently leaving out the fact that the old title was cancelled. An intentional omission of that fact will still be considered fraudulent.
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  #51  
Old November 2nd, 2013, 09:19 AM
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What about exporting it. Restoring it and bringing it back?

Or would the vin be on a black list still?
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  #52  
Old November 2nd, 2013, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by leastonce View Post
What about exporting it. Restoring it and bringing it back? Or would the vin be on a black list still?
The original VIN is no longer any good. And your scenario suggests at an attempt to find a way to defraud the system. It is a collection of PARTS ONLY. It can be used to rebuild ANOTHER VEHICLE. It cannot be used to resurrect its former identity.
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  #53  
Old November 2nd, 2013, 10:05 AM
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With the ability to trace VIN history back to the when a vehicle was originally sold, you would hope people do their homework before dropping serious coin on any purchase. All to often buyers get caught up by emotion, don't do this basic research and get hosed by the seller who purposely does not disclose the washed title, salvaged history, mileage rollback, etc.
Caveat emptor. At end of the day, you are on your own against the crooks out to make that quick buck.
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  #54  
Old November 2nd, 2013, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by down_shift View Post
With the ability to trace VIN history back to the when a vehicle was originally sold, you would hope people do their homework before dropping serious coin on any purchase. All to often buyers get caught up by emotion, don't do this basic research and get hosed by the seller who purposely does not disclose the washed title, salvaged history, mileage rollback, etc.
Caveat emptor. At end of the day, you are on your own against the crooks out to make that quick buck.
This is very true and its not always private buyers who are the victim. I worked for a LR dealership that was very excited to take in a 1997 D90 with 20k on trade, and paid all the money for it.

After the transaction was done, when the sales department put it up for sale they finished doing the research that they should have done in the first place. The CarFax showed an odometer discrepancy that indicated the D90 really had about 80k on it. It was a clean, nice truck but that still equated to about a ~$20k hit in value. Embarassing to say the least.
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  #55  
Old November 2nd, 2013, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by transientmechanic View Post
This is very true and its not always private buyers who are the victim. I worked for a LR dealership that was very excited to take in a 1997 D90 with 20k on trade, and paid all the money for it. After the transaction was done, when the sales department put it up for sale they finished doing the research that they should have done in the first place. The CarFax showed an odometer discrepancy that indicated the D90 really had about 80k on it. It was a clean, nice truck but that still equated to about a ~$20k hit in value. Embarassing to say the least.
Stupidity tax.
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  #56  
Old November 2nd, 2013, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Jackie Treehorn View Post
it looks like they paid out $67,*** in Actual Cash Value (ACV), so that's nice to see that they didn't pull some sh*t saying it was worth $10,000 to the insured! Looks nice. Hope it goes to a good home and not butchered into an ECR BR-*.
ACV does not mean that's what was paid out on the vehicle- it is simply a guide as to what similar vehicles have been valued at. As far as this truck having a branded title/rebuilding/retitling, etc- the question is moot. There is no title. This was the end of the line for this VIN. What you see for sale is a collection of parts formerly known as #271
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  #57  
Old November 2nd, 2013, 03:07 PM
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I just want it for parts,
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  #58  
Old November 2nd, 2013, 03:34 PM
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First, as Will stated above, the 90 that was in Wa came from NC, restored by Reborn, now in SC, and never titled. The owner was advised of that BEFORE he restored by both myself and Reborn. He didn't listen, paid a bunch to get it done, and lost a bunch to get it sold.

I have personally bought a truck back- a G4, that was rolled, and totaled then issued a nonrebuildable title from Ca. I restored it hoping to get it titled- bond and all. Even had the DMV agent go to bat for me with the top dog in Raleigh to no avail- NONREBUILDABLE means NONREBUILDABLE, period. We wheeled the truck, then sold it on BOS for offroad use only- legal as can be. However, keep said evidence as you don't want the potential of fraud to come back on you, as the next guy can sell it illegally, and then blame you.

Will is a good friend, and long time wheeling/Defender buddy, and his advise is near always spot on. We argue the fine points of these situations regularly, but he seems to always prevail. Buy the truck, but be prepared to pay truly stupid money for it. Value- whatever the parts are worth to an individual, but remember this- the winner of the auction is the winner because the widget is worth more to him than anybody else, or he would not have won the auction...
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  #59  
Old November 2nd, 2013, 03:43 PM
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Dammit....approaching my "out" number of $10K....oh well!!
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  #60  
Old November 2nd, 2013, 04:07 PM
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Dammit....approaching my "out" number of $10K....oh well!!
Pre-bidding means little to the auctioneer, what happens when he calls for the bid will mean a lot more. I could pre bid 100k on this truck today and not be held accountable for it. I see this happen on a weekly basis with IAA. Recently I was high pre bidder on a vehicle but when it actually came up for bid it only was bid to 80% of my pre bid amount- and it was sold to that other bidder.
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