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  #1  
Old April 22nd, 2012, 03:42 AM
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check this out

http://www.expeditionportal.com/vehi...-defender.html
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  #2  
Old April 22nd, 2012, 08:24 AM
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Unhappy

All true.

Quote:
In 2011 alone, Jeep sales skyrocketed by 62% in Europe
If true, it's well deserved.
LR should learn and offer an alternative to those SUVs available nowadays when the Defender will be no longer.

Anyway.
I worked for the last 2 years as sales rep and the business was mainly focused on the JK.
Although I don't like it (it has that "plastic feeling" and I'd take my D90 or 109" over it anyday) and in stock form is lame and ugly (IMHO) it has a lot of potential.
Let alone the "overland factor", I look at the suspension geometry and the wheel travel available with even the simplest kits on the market, and I sigh
Here in EU the engine of choice is the - Italian made - VM turbodiesel.
A proper 2.8L with VNT and 200 HP on tap for the latest generation JK (accordingly to an article I found on the web).
I look at the latest engine fitted to the Defender, and it's been downsized to 2.2 L
I'm no engineer nor bean counter, but 2.8 sounds much better.

Said that, I'll keep my Rovers until the end
Now, if only someone offered a single upper 3-L kit, well I'd be happy.

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  #3  
Old April 22nd, 2012, 08:59 AM
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I know how he feels, as my 90 is getting closer to completion I have started to day dream about what I would want to build next and would really love to build a 110 but something traitorous keeps nagging at me seeing some of the amazing stuff coming out for the jeep.

I have had Jeeps in the past (55 cj5 1980 cj5) but like he said they were just too small for everyday use, I switched to rovers back in 2001 and have been loyal since but it seems like the jeeps are staying true to their hertitage and with the larger sized offerings they are starting to tug at my heart strings.


It would pretty much seal the deal if they offered it with a diesel
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  #4  
Old April 22nd, 2012, 09:11 AM
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Jeep has hit a home run with the JK, I have not driven one but they seem to do well. I would probably buy one, its the best alternative to a Defender and other thnx. Few shortcomings in the driveline its the only proper 4wd vehicle offered here.
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  #5  
Old April 22nd, 2012, 10:08 AM
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Someone on expo put it like this:

Romance = Land Rover

Reality = Jeep

Being forced to look at a replacement for my defender has me going nuts. Two little kids has me wanting a 110 but at what cost? Time and money is harder to find these days for me and the honeymoon is over so to speak, or maybe I should say the funeral is over.

Was telling Josh the other day I'm starting to hear voices in my head "Four door Rubi Gery...Four dooooor Ruuuubiiii"

It's pretty sad. I might wait and buy the new defender when it comes this way. Yeah right.
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  #6  
Old April 22nd, 2012, 12:03 PM
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Here in Colorado, the Wrangler Unlimited is EVERYWHERE. They have sold thousands of them here. Jeep has hit a home run. If I had the money, I'd buy a Rubicon Unlimited tomorrow.
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  #7  
Old April 22nd, 2012, 12:05 PM
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Have to say I rented a unlimited while I am in California for a week and it drives pretty nice. I do love the Freedom top. It does nothing special or excites me like a 90 but overall not a bad truck.
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  #8  
Old April 22nd, 2012, 05:16 PM
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That action camper is cool.

Telling thing is it looks to be designed in Austria.

Who'd a thunk that a decade ago?
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  #9  
Old April 22nd, 2012, 05:24 PM
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The Defender is focused on purpose and a means to an end. The Jeep is just a plastic fun activity machine. Do you think 20 years from now, when all cars are composite disposable pieces of boaring green crap that companies like ECR will be doing six figure rebuilds on a JK... I'll keep my D-110 and keep having her rebuilt as long as I can burn gasoline.
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  #10  
Old April 22nd, 2012, 05:40 PM
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Around here the 4dr jk is very popular as the married make menopause machine. The anti minivan.
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  #11  
Old April 23rd, 2012, 10:34 AM
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The Defender has some advantages over the Jeep, but production efficiency isn't one of them.

If LR just ripped out all the natty furnishings and concentrated on cost reduction through automation (reduction in labor cost), then somehow convince the executives to sell 3x more of them for half the per unit price...they might have a chance. For some reason LR wants to sell fewer Defenders at higher and higher prices. I'm not sure who is running that business, but it makes no sense.

I would buy a brand new Defender over a brand new Jeep any day...if they were the same or nearly the same in price.
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  #12  
Old April 23rd, 2012, 10:55 AM
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Here is what the LR design team has been working the last few years on, and here is what the Jeep team has been up too....someone is missing the mark and it's not Jeep!

The fact that jeep now has the Overland version, very well kitted with a limited slip & locked rear end says it all. Meanwhile LR is now making 2wd convertibles. Jeep already went down the car experiment road with the Compass etc..and it didn't work, they learned from that and are now giving people what they want and expect from a jeep, I only hope one day LR learns from it's most recent mistakes.
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  #13  
Old April 23rd, 2012, 11:11 AM
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This is what happens when you cross breed mini-cooper creative design with Land Rover engineering. I'll bet the engineers where all moved into the basement so they wouldn't see any dirt outside their windows.
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  #14  
Old April 23rd, 2012, 11:16 AM
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in 1993 a new 110nas was 40,000.... AC thats works all the way up to 70 deg, steel bits that are untreated, thin and hold water in odd places so driving in water meant death, let alone salt water. a frame that while boxed, is of a paltry thin gauge, cockpit seating for a midget, a crappy transmission, no lockers, it had to have a cage to pass a rollover test because it falls apart and kills you otherwise. bad electrics, junky seats, bad gearing...

now look at a brand new loaded 40,000 rubicon today....

ECR wont have a business doing these, because hundreds of thousands will be sold and they wont be falling to pieces in 50,000 miles.

the defender is a romance, and fun one. i still shop the classified for the next one. but design wise, its a complete piece of crap next to a new rubicon. the only downside? you see them every day.
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  #15  
Old April 23rd, 2012, 11:42 AM
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I've got a 2012 Wrangler Unlimited. I like it a lot. I prefer the Defender but the Jeep doesn't leak, it's quieter on the highway and easier to live with. It's a good everyday car except for the fuel consumption (but I wasn't expecting brilliant numbers). Funnily enough I was thinking that it would be an even better truck if a diesel was an option. A diesel similar to a Mercedes BlueTec. There are issues with it that I think could be easily addressed: The back seats are vey uncomfortable, I find the navigation system and bluetooth to be poorly designed (I didn't want these options but most of the Wranglers the had came with these options). It's overall a very good product but it also makes me consider why Land Rover won't modify the Defender to comply with the emission and safety standards. If Jeep does it why can't Land Rover?

------ Follow up post added April 23rd, 2012 11:44 AM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by NomaD110 View Post
The Defender is focused on purpose and a means to an end. The Jeep is just a plastic fun activity machine. Do you think 20 years from now, when all cars are composite disposable pieces of boaring green crap that companies like ECR will be doing six figure rebuilds on a JK... I'll keep my D-110 and keep having her rebuilt as long as I can burn gasoline.
I completely agree with this. The Defender has soul which the Jeep lacks.
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  #16  
Old April 23rd, 2012, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hinckley423 View Post
It's overall a very good product but it also makes me consider why Land Rover won't modify the Defender to comply with the emission and safety standards. If Jeep does it why can't Land Rover?
I assume that what you are really asking is, "Why won't Land Rover federalize the Defender for sale in North America"?

This is the internal dialogue in a Land Rover executive's head:

"If we pay the money to federalize the Land Rover Defender, then we have to recoup the cost in extra sales"
"But we can only sell 5,000 Defenders a year in North America at $55,000 a vehicle. The last time we tried this in the 90's, the sales numbers were terrible."
"Based on this evidence, it's not worth it to spend the money to federalize the Defender for North American export. End of story."

Then a guy comes to his office and says:

"Sir, why don't we sell the Defender at $25,000 a vehicle instead of $55,000? We could sell 20,000 trucks a year at that price. Maybe even 30,000."

The the LR exec says one of the following:

"A Defender stands for exclusivity. You would be destroying the brand if you sold it for those prices."
"You cannot sell a Defender for $25,000 a vehicle, as we sell it for almost double in the UK."
"That would completely destroy Discovery sales in North America."
"We are absolutely maxed out for production numbers in Solihull. We would have to create a whole new factory, invest in new technologies, and hire all new staff to make that many additional Defenders. Think about how much that would cost."

Add more excuses as your imagination permits.
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  #17  
Old April 23rd, 2012, 01:17 PM
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I agree. My D110 is for fun, but the 2 door JK that my wife has is for driving and actually using. I would have loved getting her a D90, but there is now way I could get a reliable one for even 150% of a new Jeep price.
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  #18  
Old April 23rd, 2012, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hinckley423 View Post
It's overall a very good product but it also makes me consider why Land Rover won't modify the Defender to comply with the emission and safety standards. If Jeep does it why can't Land Rover?
because it realistically couldnt. the whole cockpit and bulkhead area would need to be scrapped for more space and at that point its an entirely new car. Merc is fortunate that they designed in more space with the G at the onset, and have been able to continually eek by with changes. but even at 120g a pop, if the line costs werent 100% supported with military version sales, they would be forced to kill it. life has only been extended as military contracts have rolled it. this will be the last civilian redo.

------ Follow up post added April 23rd, 2012 01:31 PM ------

the funny thing is, my domesticated english friend had a defender when he still lived there, and insists on driving land cruisers. he gets giggle fits at what we will pay for one of these.
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  #19  
Old April 23rd, 2012, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red64chevelle View Post
I agree. My D110 is for fun, but the 2 door JK that my wife has is for driving and actually using. I would have loved getting her a D90, but there is now way I could get a reliable one for even 150% of a new Jeep price.
plenty of "reliable" NAS D90s in the 20s nowadays. If you mean "covered under factory warranty" rather than "reliable" then yes, the Jeep has that advantage over our D90s.
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  #20  
Old April 23rd, 2012, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPBrown View Post
Here is what the LR design team has been working the last few years on, and here is what the Jeep team has been up too....someone is missing the mark and it's not Jeep!

The fact that jeep now has the Overland version, very well kitted with a limited slip & locked rear end says it all. (SNIP) I only hope one day LR learns from it's most recent mistakes.
You guys clearly don't have a clue...Overland version? LSD? Who cares of those minor details when you have such brilliant people like Mrs. Beckham, recently appointed Creative Design Executive, in your staff!
She knows best.

Eh.

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