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  #1  
Old August 9th, 2010, 12:25 AM
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barry f
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Cat made me cry

I went and sat in the bullrun puma and honestly it made me sad. Sad that really no NAS 110 will ever compare to a brand new defender. I don't care how much cash you pour in to restoring one unless you built it to exactly what a new one is I feel like you are coming up short. Damn it even had new car smell. Thankfully I didn't drive it or I would hate life even more.

Loved the dash and second row seats.

Worth a 150k no clue but if you are rich and wanted to have one hassle free why not.
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  #2  
Old August 9th, 2010, 07:30 AM
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Where is it?
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  #3  
Old August 9th, 2010, 07:33 AM
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Glad I bought one when the pound rate was 1.45 - It came out just over 30k.

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  #4  
Old August 9th, 2010, 08:06 AM
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Land Rover always has, and will probably continue, to put worthless wussy engines in their vehicles, and in Defenders in particular. (Worst case has to be the Series 2B Forward Control with a 2.25D. Incapable of climbing the merest grade even unloaded.) Puma engine belongs in a Fiat, not a heavy 5 door off-road vehicle. Maybe some day they will develop a nice turbo diesel v8 and put it in the Defender. Oh wait, they did! Did they put it in the Defender? no, it goes in the Range Rover where its chances of being used off road are about zero. Why they don't develop cars and trucks for the North American market has always been a real puzzler for me. This is the largest automobile market yet they treat us as though we are second class citizens, offering the grade B products and virtually no service. Clearly there are knuckleheads in the board room. Perhaps now that there is new management there will be an effort to actually become a profitable business, but I have doubts. It would go against 50 years of mismanagement.
There is no reason why LR can't bring the Defender to the USA for a competitive price to Ford and Chevy. These things should have a 220 HP turbo diesel, auto boxes, room for seven, navigation and roadside assistance and sell for about 35K. If that means moving the factory to Mississippi, then they should.
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  #5  
Old August 9th, 2010, 11:09 AM
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Where is it?
Rolls Royce of BH
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  #6  
Old August 9th, 2010, 11:53 AM
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not shown on their website. is it for sale?
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  #7  
Old August 9th, 2010, 11:57 AM
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not shown on their website. is it for sale?

DuPont Registry:

http://www.dupontregistry.com/autos/...?itemid=830560
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  #8  
Old August 9th, 2010, 12:06 PM
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We need 15 investors to acquire this? How's $10K plus each sound?
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  #9  
Old August 9th, 2010, 12:15 PM
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OMG, that one isn't even a very high spec. I mean, I like rubber floor mats too, but that sucker is a stripper.

And jeez guys, don't invest. Buy a 2010 from Nene or Foley or someone for like 20k UKP, fly over with friends, take it apart and do what you with the parts. Save 130k and have a nice vacation.
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  #10  
Old August 9th, 2010, 12:19 PM
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I was just teasing!

Jim, can you post some pix of your 2010 tdci.
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  #11  
Old August 9th, 2010, 12:30 PM
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He'll need a long lens to take pictures from ... Afghanistan!

I guess the truck is in Europe.
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  #12  
Old August 9th, 2010, 03:01 PM
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The company took the pix down, so I'll have to dig in my hard drive.

I got it from Nene Overland. Good guys to work with. Very easy transaction, were even very cool about waiting for a foreign check and getting paid in dollars. Didn't fuss over a fluctuating exchange rate either.
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  #13  
Old August 9th, 2010, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by o2batsea View Post
Land Rover always has, and will probably continue, to put worthless wussy engines in their vehicles, and in Defenders in particular. (Worst case has to be the Series 2B Forward Control with a 2.25D. Incapable of climbing the merest grade even unloaded.) Puma engine belongs in a Fiat, not a heavy 5 door off-road vehicle. Maybe some day they will develop a nice turbo diesel v8 and put it in the Defender. Oh wait, they did! Did they put it in the Defender? no, it goes in the Range Rover where its chances of being used off road are about zero. Why they don't develop cars and trucks for the North American market has always been a real puzzler for me. This is the largest automobile market yet they treat us as though we are second class citizens, offering the grade B products and virtually no service. Clearly there are knuckleheads in the board room. Perhaps now that there is new management there will be an effort to actually become a profitable business, but I have doubts. It would go against 50 years of mismanagement.
There is no reason why LR can't bring the Defender to the USA for a competitive price to Ford and Chevy. These things should have a 220 HP turbo diesel, auto boxes, room for seven, navigation and roadside assistance and sell for about 35K. If that means moving the factory to Mississippi, then they should.
Defenders are produced in small numbers on a largely manual production line for a niche market ... There are plenty of reasons why it makes no sense what-so-ever to bring Defenders to the US through the main distributor channel... A complete redesign is necessary to meet your government crash and safety standards ... did you happen to notice that 2010 defender still has no airbag! Also the point of worthless wussy engines is that they are adequate for purpose, easily maintained and relatively economical.

If by some miracle the Defender did come back the the US for a few years - it would just be a fashion statement and after a few rich kids were killed in rollovers they'd be recalled, banned and gone again.

I think we have a different perspective on the board that everyone wants a Defender and the market would be sustainable over the length of time needed to recoup the investment on your factory in Mississippi.

For once in the 50 years of building a solid product and brand, Land Rover is now doing exactly the right thing and keeping Defenders out of the US.

If you want a 2010 Defender buy one and import it on a 1984 VIN.
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  #14  
Old August 9th, 2010, 05:03 PM
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^^^ I was just going to comment on that.... it's registered on an "A" plate, 1984.... very dodgy!
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  #15  
Old August 9th, 2010, 05:41 PM
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^^^ I was just going to comment on that.... it's registered on an "A" plate, 1984.... very dodgy!
I can't believe that all these cars make it here ...

I wouldn't be surprised if the pikeys were stealing these 2010 Defenders and VIN swapping them for yuppies in LA to buy!

Hold that thought ... I have a new script for Guy Ritchie!!

Just because the VIN swap was done overseas seems to make it acceptable!
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  #16  
Old August 9th, 2010, 06:30 PM
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Jason, I didn't say I wanted a Defender and that Land Rover should bring the Defender to the US Market so I could buy one affordably. My point is that Land Rover considers the US market as too much for them to bother with. They prefer to sell quirky expensive underpowered poorly constructed (but marvelously engineered) products to the rest of the world and avoid having to make their products safe. If I were running the place I would get busy trying to move some cars and selling in the USA (and China) would be my top priority after I got the quality control thing in hand.
I mean really, this is a brand that by all reasoning should have died when British Leyland sold it. It's been run into the ground and is very near death once again. They should take a page from the Hyundai school of marketing cars. Then they might be worth a darn. Buy a new Defender? I wouldn't be caught dead in one...or maybe I would!

Also the point of worthless wussy engines is that they are adequate for purpose, easily maintained and relatively economical.

So's a Ford 351, and a Chevy 350. If Rover put those in Stage Ones instead of the Byook...they might have sold a few. The aluminum V8 was cheap (nobody wanted it) and available. As it was Rover was way overpriced back in the late sixties and early seventies due to the fact that they used aluminum in the bodies and drive train. The casting of aluminum made for far more rejects than you get from cast iron.
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  #17  
Old August 9th, 2010, 07:08 PM
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Jim

Is yours left hand drive? Is that easy to get in uk?
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  #18  
Old August 9th, 2010, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by o2batsea View Post
Jason, I didn't say I wanted a Defender and that Land Rover should bring the Defender to the US Market so I could buy one affordably. My point is that Land Rover considers the US market as too much for them to bother with. They prefer to sell quirky expensive underpowered poorly constructed (but marvelously engineered) products to the rest of the world and avoid having to make their products safe. If I were running the place I would get busy trying to move some cars and selling in the USA (and China) would be my top priority after I got the quality control thing in hand.
I mean really, this is a brand that by all reasoning should have died when British Leyland sold it. It's been run into the ground and is very near death once again. They should take a page from the Hyundai school of marketing cars. Then they might be worth a darn. Buy a new Defender? I wouldn't be caught dead in one...or maybe I would!

Also the point of worthless wussy engines is that they are adequate for purpose, easily maintained and relatively economical.

So's a Ford 351, and a Chevy 350. If Rover put those in Stage Ones instead of the Byook...they might have sold a few. The aluminum V8 was cheap (nobody wanted it) and available. As it was Rover was way overpriced back in the late sixties and early seventies due to the fact that they used aluminum in the bodies and drive train. The casting of aluminum made for far more rejects than you get from cast iron.

I think you associate Land Rover and Defender too closely ... Ford don't push Crown Vics on the rest of the world ... it's an end of life product that they keep producing because their is a niche market for it ...( cops and taxis). As soon as that niche dries up through regulation, see how fast ford stops building them!

Land Rover tried this market for 4 years with the Defender ... they charged a premium and 15 years later people are paying 3,5,5 times the original price for something available brand new in the rest of the world for $30K ... right there is brand loyalty and power. How many of those ECR and Copley clients also have a Range Rover in the garage?

My travels around would lead me to the conclusion that Land Rover is highly successful here, Europe, Middle East and in China with Range Rovers, Range Rover Sport and LR4's... the rest of the world still has an appetite for utility vehicles in small numbers that happen to be illegal in this market.

The US has always been big enough to sustain it's own domestic manufacturers and unless you could make a considerable premium for all the hassle, why bother? There are many easier markets to be explored without changing your product. The rest of the world's gas prices have generally been significantly higher ... UK gas is about 6 GBP a gallon or nearly $9 and this demands frugal engines.

The aluminium on Land Rovers dates from the post war ( WW II ) when it was more available than steel and less suitable for re-construction. Drive train usage makes sense because of the light weight helps with economy. It's probably less expensive to mine, ship, extract from bauxite and machine ..

The 60's and 70's in the UK car industry is a model for what the US car industry could look like with the bailouts ... ;-)

The Defender is going to die as a new product very soon ... or be produced for markets where little regulation exists, India, China, Africa ... Land Rover however is going on strong.

Would I buy a Defender new if everyone at the Jersey Shore was driving one? Nope ... It probably drive a Morgan with it's wooden chassis and 1950's construction methods ( after being on the waiting list for 15 years!)

------ Follow up post added August 9th, 2010 08:48 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjf View Post
Jim

Is yours left hand drive? Is that easy to get in uk?
Yes LHD is a factory order if you buy new ... buy it for export and pay no UK VAT (17.5% sales tax) in Europe however you'd pay the local taxes ...

Service personnel, diplomats and the like can buy through tax free channels ... I assuming thats why Jim got his so cheaply!

http://www.landrover.com/us/en/lr/sp...ilitary-sales/
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  #19  
Old August 9th, 2010, 09:20 PM
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Defenders are produced in small numbers on a largely manual production line for a niche market ... There are plenty of reasons why it makes no sense what-so-ever to bring Defenders to the US through the main distributor channel... A complete redesign is necessary to meet your government crash and safety standards ... did you happen to notice that 2010 defender still has no airbag! Also the point of worthless wussy engines is that they are adequate for purpose, easily maintained and relatively economical.

If by some miracle the Defender did come back the the US for a few years - it would just be a fashion statement and after a few rich kids were killed in rollovers they'd be recalled, banned and gone again.

I think we have a different perspective on the board that everyone wants a Defender and the market would be sustainable over the length of time needed to recoup the investment on your factory in Mississippi.

For once in the 50 years of building a solid product and brand, Land Rover is now doing exactly the right thing and keeping Defenders out of the US.

If you want a 2010 Defender buy one and import it on a 1984 VIN.

If you want a 2010 Defender buy one and import it on a 1984 VIN.

Can this be done? If so what would it cost? Is this what someone did here?
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  #20  
Old August 9th, 2010, 11:32 PM
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If you want a 2010 Defender buy one and import it on a 1984 VIN.

Can this be done? If so what would it cost? Is this what someone did here?
This has been discussed in at least four thousand threads here. In short, you're taking a huge risk. You may get it imported successfully but if you get in a wreck and the insurance companies do their due diligence and figure out what you did, you may be liable for the damages.
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