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  #21  
Old May 27th, 2008, 05:17 PM
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keith humphreys
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good luck... im out of ideas. have fun!!!
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  #22  
Old May 27th, 2008, 05:33 PM
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Andrew Najarian
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Ahh, wooden boats...a hole in the water into which one throws money!

I grew up on my dad's 29' Oxford 400. He now has a Beneteau Oceanis 440...beautiful woodwork in the cockpit and especially on the interior where it doesn't require as much attention, but fiberglass hull and deck.

For just cruising anything is great, but wood hulls require a lot of upkeep, and full keels don't point as well as newer designs. As beautiful as wooden boats are, I recommend finding a nice fiberglass hulled boat with wood appointments on the deck and in the cabin.
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  #23  
Old May 27th, 2008, 06:15 PM
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john
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Plastic boats are for bath tubs. Go for the wood. You wouldnt own a Defender if you were practical. You own a Defender because you have a sense of adventure, nostalgia and romance otherwise you would be driving a Mini Van or worse. Take it from the owner of 65' wood boat built in 1937 there is nothing like it. Sure they are more work but isnt anything thats worth having!? Wood boats have a soul that plastic couldnt never duplicate. Find an old woody for cheap and restore her. You will be glad you did.
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  #24  
Old May 27th, 2008, 08:30 PM
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Andrew Najarian
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Well, its different when you're still younger, but he's buying it for his parents, which is why I suggested it. I agree with you that there is nothing like a wooden boat, but I'm guessing his parents are getting up there in age and may not want to deal with the upkeep in a few years. If they're up to it, or you are willing to do the work every year, go for it! I still love wooden boats and would love to find a nice one in a few years to putz around with.
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  #25  
Old May 27th, 2008, 09:03 PM
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john
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Andrew that was my sad attempt at humor. I missed the part about it being for his parents. Point taken.
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  #26  
Old May 28th, 2008, 09:00 AM
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I might disagree, though... As the owner of a small wooden yawl, full keel, gaff-rigged, and with acres of varnish, I'd like to remind the readers that ALL boats require maintenance. You can, indeed, ignore a plastic boat and it will, indeed, continue functioning - for a time.

But without maintenance, that plastic boat will fail as certainly as the wooden boat. But it will be an insidious failure that you can not see. Things like rot, core saturation, delamination, gel-coat blisters, and simply ugly hazing and crazing on the gelcoat and 'glas. That's not to say the boat looks nice, only that you can't always see the failures in a poorly maintained fibreglass boat.

The truth is a wooden boat, with so many advantages, both real and imagined/perceived (**), will simply be more upfront with what is going wrong.

A simple wooden boat, with some varnish for beauty and paint for protection, will outlast a fibreglass boat with evn the best care. Eventually a modern 'glas boat will fail from blisters, delamination, saturation, and a combination of the three. A 'glass boat ran into pier is a festering failure that can't be fixed in a reasonable manner. A wood boat treated as poorly can have a plank/frame replaced and literally be good as new.

The maintenance difference really is not as major as the manufacturers testified when they started peddling the fibreglass boats. The 'glass hull needs serious washing, scrubbing, cleaning, and waxing at least once a year. The woodie needs a light sanding and a coat of paint once a year. Varnish needs a light sanding and 2 coats each spring, and depending on where you live, another round of refreshing each summer.

They boat have rigging running and standing, engines, ground tackle, and systems such as electronics, heads, galleys, water and fuel and waste storage, etc... which for all intents and purposes are identical. The woodie gets a coat of paint on the topsides instead of waxing. They both get bottom-jobs. The woodie is likely to have more varnish "bling" than the soul-less chlorox bottle... but varnish is as satisfying as an oil change or changing fluids in your Defender.

The "mfrs" sold America and the world on 'glas because it is a higher margin product for them. But all boats - ALL boats - need TLC... just like a Land Rover.

** Real benefits are the visual / aesthetic beauty, seaworthiness of designs, observability of condition, and simplicity of maintenance...
** Perceived are those (real to me) things like feel, sound, pride of ownership, and knowing our little gaffer will outlive me.
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  #27  
Old May 28th, 2008, 11:31 AM
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john
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Emerson you will get no arguement out of me as my boat turned 70 last year and thanks to advances in Epoxy is better than new and will certainly be around longer than i will.
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  #28  
Old May 28th, 2008, 12:53 PM
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Epoxy used right can do wonders... epoxy used wrong can be disastrous.

I hate the stuff (slightly allergic from building li'l boats). Ours is being reframed with steamed frames and bronze fasteners. I won't allow epoxy below decks (the decks are glassed cloth).

The guy that built ours (not quite 30 years ago) did so with virtually no electric tools nearly solo. Have photos of him driving planking fasteners with a yankee driver up on a ladder all alone in a dark shed with the doors open for light! Neat old guy passed away 13 years ago at 80-some years in a motorcycle accident going home in NY from a show in Maryland.

[/mild hijack]
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  #29  
Old May 28th, 2008, 01:21 PM
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john
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Sounds like you and I could talk about this stuff for a long time. We always seal new planks below the waterline with deep penetrating epoxy. Is that what you meant by below decks or in the cabin?
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  #30  
Old May 28th, 2008, 01:41 PM
Emerson00
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The problem with sealing them is that "deep penetrating" epoxy is not that, and epoxy is a reasonable water barrier, but a poor vapor barrier; that is the planks below the waterline are slowly gaining water penetration that will never really leave (she's in the water x months/year, and out drying y months... x>y so she'll take up far more than she'll ever have a chance to evaporate out).

The same problem as what happens with older 'glas boats with balsa cores... people assumed it's an impenetrable barrier but over the years those boats have mysteriously gained weight... then one day you find your balsa is mush and the 2000 mystery pounds aren't missing sun visors under the berths, but 32CF of water taken up into the core.

Below the water there's zero benefit in attempting to seal those planks. If you're in Venice, you're in salt... think of the salt water as pickling the wood... it's quite good for it.

What I meant was literally that I don't want any water below deck level on our boat - deck's 2 feet above the water, so I figure that's a reasonable seperation.

I could (will if y'all ain't careful) go on until the guy that runs the yard on MDI chimes in again to tell me to shut up. I've been obsessed with boats since I was itty bitty.

Follow-up Post:

That wasn't intended to come across... short. Just answering the question.

Epoxy has a lot of uses, some of those make sense, and some are dangerous (in the sense of being dangerous to the integrity of the boat as designed and used).
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  #31  
Old May 28th, 2008, 08:36 PM
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Andrew Najarian
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Yeah, I knew a guy that used an epoxy paint on his. Made the boat look beautiful, but it was beginning to rot pretty badly and needed a lot of work to bring it back after all those years of the epoxy being on there.

Have you guys ever heard of Nimphius? He passed away a few years ago, but several friends had boats built by him, one was a completely custome one. I had the pleasure of meeting him and wandering through his sheds, seeing all the projects he had going at the time. I think his son is still running the place now...its in Wisconsin.
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  #32  
Old May 28th, 2008, 09:08 PM
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john
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This boat is only hauled once ever two years for bottom paint and the planks that were coated in CPES hold up much better. We work quickly so she doesnt get a chance to dry out.

I wouldnt paint a wood boat especially in the dry so cal weather in epoxy as i agree it needs to breath. Andrew Im not familiar with Nimpihius. The wood boat guru around here is a guy named Wayne Ettel. He restored Humphrey Bogarts sloop the Santana and David Crosbys. He swears by the stuff. I also spend a lot of time in Maine and from Camden to Brooklin laminated wood has become the standard. I agree Emerson Im sure we could go back and forth for quite a long time.
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  #33  
Old May 29th, 2008, 10:08 AM
Emerson00
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Matt J.
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Just keep an eye on them. CPES is so often seen as a pangea, but I have serious doubts about its use as a "sealer" below the waterline... A wooden boat built plank on frame needs to "breathe"; it needs to be able to absorb water, and let that water out, too.

I think it can extend the life of an old boat (such as yours) for a time until the boat can be properly restored. It's great for lots of things (remember it was started as a means of repairing rot by "sealing" the rot and then filling the rot-voids to make a piece of wood look whole. Smith saw an opportunity to market as a "sealer" in general use, and it's taken off since then. I guess you'll be OK for a long time, but keep an eye on those planks and see that they don't start getting punky.
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  #34  
Old May 29th, 2008, 11:54 AM
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Peter Sherman
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For a woodie here are some links!
I have been racing sailboats for near 40 years & only have sailed a handfull of woodies. So they are not my forte.

http://www.shieldsclass.com/h_Boats_for_Sale.htm
http://www.capecodshipbuilding.com/site/home.htm
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1365436/0
http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehi...QAdIdZ53589122
http://www.usdragons.org/AIDA/Home.html
Dragons were an Olyimpic class from 48 till 92.
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