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  #41  
Old April 22nd, 2014, 11:53 AM
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Neill Thornton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jafir View Post
Yeah, that's what I was wondering about. So how do they Ariel guys get away with it? is it because it's all new, never assembled as a car before that place in Virginia builds them? If you could find a CKD of a Defender I wonder if that would qualify as a kit.
Strangely enough, it's because the Defender was sold in the US as a certificated vehicle. The Atom never has.

If we never had NAS trucks, it actually might be an exploitable loophole.
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  #42  
Old April 22nd, 2014, 12:28 PM
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Neill thank you for your due diligence in educating us. I feel like I read and read and read but still get contradictory info, so to have someone who has dealt with it in person is valuable. Thanks!
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  #43  
Old April 22nd, 2014, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by navydevildoc View Post
Strangely enough, it's because the Defender was sold in the US as a certificated vehicle. The Atom never has.

If we never had NAS trucks, it actually might be an exploitable loophole.
Don't take this as arguing, because that's not my intention, I'm just trying to figure out all of the details, which might be impossible because California just might not make any sense.

People are able to build Shelby Cobra replicas and register them with the 1 of 500 exemptions, or so I've been led to believe.
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  #44  
Old April 22nd, 2014, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by jafir View Post
Don't take this as arguing, because that's not my intention, I'm just trying to figure out all of the details, which might be impossible because California just might not make any sense.

People are able to build Shelby Cobra replicas and register them with the 1 of 500 exemptions, or so I've been led to believe.
The key word is "replica". You aren't taking a production vehicle and trying to skirt emissions laws. You are creating something "new" by assembling it yourself, and it's not just assembling parts from a vehicle manufacturer to resemble what essentially rolled off the assembly line.

In short, taking a donor chassis, putting in an engine, and bolting on a replica body = kit car. Buying all the parts for a Defender and bolting them together to make an actual Defender = production vehicle.
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  #45  
Old April 22nd, 2014, 01:29 PM
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No real value

No real value but I cheered as I crossed the state line out of CALI into AZ. AAAAHHHHH hhhhhaaa finally free of:
CA DMV
CA BOE
CA Franchise Tax Board
CA CHP
San Diego County Sales Tax
$8K in Real Estate Taxes
$4K a month mort for a 1800 square foot house

I love my neighbors and folks in CALI but HATED the CA GOVT!!!!!!, pension fund, potholed road as my property tax dollars were already spent on saving the spotted indiginous chicken of the upper humboldt county muckity muck.

Gone, bye bye good ridance
Rant Rant Rant....
Good luck to all CA defender owners in the upcoming years to keep your trucks on the road!!!

------ Follow up post added April 22nd, 2014 01:34 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by navydevildoc View Post
The key word is "replica". You aren't taking a production vehicle and trying to skirt emissions laws. You are creating something "new" by assembling it yourself, and it's not just assembling parts from a vehicle manufacturer to resemble what essentially rolled off the assembly line.

In short, taking a donor chassis, putting in an engine, and bolting on a replica body = kit car.
Donor chasis with a clear title - engine with a VIN, replica body that DOES NOT match a current production car - kit car.


Buying all the parts for a Defender and bolting them together to make an actual Defender = production vehicle.
YEP 1000% agree. - 3 choices when going to the CHP with this set up Actual conversation with inspector "1. I seize the vehicle, 2. I call customs and let them know that this vehicle is in the country illegally and you have 30 days to get it out of the country, 3. you can try to register it as an off highway vehicle."
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  #46  
Old April 22nd, 2014, 01:37 PM
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  #47  
Old April 22nd, 2014, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navydevildoc View Post


In short, taking a donor chassis, putting in an engine, and bolting on a replica body = kit car. Buying all the parts for a Defender and bolting them together to make an actual Defender = production vehicle.
So...you can't take a donor chassis, put in an engine, bolt on some Britpart panels/doors= kit car??


.
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  #48  
Old April 22nd, 2014, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Nomar View Post
So...you can't take a donor chassis, put in an engine, bolt on some Britpart panels/doors= kit car??
Nope. Then you have a production vehicle since it's materially the same thing as what was manufactured by Land Rover.
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  #49  
Old April 22nd, 2014, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by navydevildoc View Post
Nope. Then you have a production vehicle since it's materially the same thing as what was manufactured by Land Rover.
Interesting, so with the Atom example because it doesn't exist HERE as a production vehicle then as far as the CA govt is concerned it doesn't exist at all? That's absolutely crazy but probably true as I worded it.

One more point, about the fact that technically the NAS defender was sold here making this exemption moot. What about if you're trying this with an older truck isn't that technically a 90, 110, 127? Its SIMILAR but not the same model as the Defender which has the issue due to it being on the books as a production vehicle? The 90/110/127 were never sold here officially so would that make it in a similar category as the Ariel Atom?

I cannot believe these are the things that are concerns for legislation.
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  #50  
Old April 22nd, 2014, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by hillstrubl View Post



I cannot believe these are the things that are concerns for legislation.


.

Exactly...





.
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  #51  
Old April 22nd, 2014, 03:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javelinadave View Post
Two words:
Free
Arizona
They can afford to be 'free' as they are being 'freed' by the moocher paradox.
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  #52  
Old April 22nd, 2014, 03:58 PM
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They can afford to be 'free' as they are being 'freed' by the moocher paradox.
Here we go again.
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  #53  
Old April 22nd, 2014, 05:41 PM
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They can afford to be 'free' as they are being 'freed' by the moocher paradox.
As in Moochele?
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  #54  
Old April 22nd, 2014, 06:09 PM
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I have a recent email.. april 14. from alex wang the head of legal from CARB.. you are NOT going to like what it says...about grey maket LR diesels or V8s... but can forward.. later bc
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  #55  
Old April 22nd, 2014, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by werewolf View Post
I have a recent email.. april 14. from alex wang the head of legal from CARB.. you are NOT going to like what it says...about grey maket LR diesels or V8s... but can forward.. later bc
What, that they don't meet CA emissions law?

Send me a PM with it if you like.
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  #56  
Old April 22nd, 2014, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by werewolf View Post
I have a recent email.. april 14. from alex wang the head of legal from CARB.. you are NOT going to like what it says...about grey maket LR diesels or V8s... but can forward.. later bc
It's also worth noting that Alex Wang is not the head of Legal at CARB... Chief Counsel is Ellen Peter.
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  #57  
Old April 22nd, 2014, 07:19 PM
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A quick google says he's senior staff council .... He's senior enough to make interesting reading and I'd doubt his comments will be out of line with the CARB official position.

So come on let's see what he has to say ...
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  #58  
Old April 22nd, 2014, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by werewolf View Post
I have a recent email.. april 14. from alex wang the head of legal from CARB.. you are NOT going to like what it says...about grey maket LR diesels or V8s... but can forward.. later bc
Do tell ... Or pm.
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  #59  
Old April 22nd, 2014, 08:14 PM
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Like the other you said you send...(edit)


This guy is toxic...
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  #60  
Old April 22nd, 2014, 09:42 PM
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yes..ellen is the head. but alex does all the work and emails.. my email is bille.cox@hotmail.com and will send to you tomorrow.. sorry I posted that I might know someone at CARB.. maybe uncle cornpole can do it for you.. bc
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