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  #21  
Old September 11th, 2012, 06:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brewie212 View Post
Should I start taking orders?
I'd be interested in one, but i'd probably be your only order for a 1988 B2600
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  #22  
Old September 11th, 2012, 09:02 AM
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Brian Kandefer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomaco1

I'd be interested in one, but i'd probably be your only order for a 1988 B2600
Haha, for sure! I'm meeting with a couple guys today and tomorrow about the machines and work space. I won't be doing anything crazy until probably Uwharrie. I want to make my exo, and gear first so the guys can see it first hand and give me their feedback. If that works out I might start talking to ppl about building for them. You never know I could go to Uwharrie and find out my stuff is complete trash and I should just sell my equipment! Haha, you never know?
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  #23  
Old September 11th, 2012, 09:09 AM
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Professional wet blanket here....

...you've priced product liability insurance, right???
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  #24  
Old September 11th, 2012, 09:13 AM
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Brian Kandefer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnfrozenCaveman
Professional wet blanket here....

...you've priced product liability insurance, right???
I was going to try and ask you how you have your stuff set up. Originally, I was going to work just on buddies rides so they can bash and I can see how my stuff holds up, wasn't going to worry about that until I started selling to others? Is that screwed up?
Sorry thought you were Wolf!
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  #25  
Old September 11th, 2012, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Brewie212 View Post
Sorry thought you were Wolf!
No worries, just your local C(onstant)P(ain in the)A(ss) here.

See if you've got a local Small Business Development Center - often sponsored by a state university. Visit with them, they almost always have great resources / volunteers to help you through the getting started process.
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  #26  
Old September 11th, 2012, 09:56 AM
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Brian Kandefer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnfrozenCaveman

No worries, just your local C(onstant)P(ain in the)A(ss) here.

See if you've got a local Small Business Development Center - often sponsored by a state university. Visit with them, they almost always have great resources / volunteers to help you through the getting started process.
To be honest, I have not gotten quotes but I have talked to a couple ppl informally about what I would need for the volume that I would be doing. Being really small they said my first line of defense would be a rock solid disclaimer, and when business picks up to look in to product liability, he guessed around $5000 annual.
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  #27  
Old September 11th, 2012, 10:01 AM
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This is all totally stupid.

Go for it dude. Buy a cheaper bender like the ones that other fabricators on here are using and start making stuff. Don't drop the big coin on the big machines until you know you have the volume to pay for it. Just get building and post up when you have a product to show and sell. Just don't become another Bottorf.
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  #28  
Old September 11th, 2012, 10:03 AM
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Brian Kandefer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ren Ching
This is all totally stupid.

Go for it dude. Buy a cheaper bender like the ones that other fabricators on here are using and start making stuff. Don't drop the big coin on the big machines until you know you have the volume to pay for it. Just get building and post up when you have a product to show and sell. Just don't become another Bottorf.
I wish I never low balled you on that conversion kit!
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  #29  
Old September 11th, 2012, 10:20 AM
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Trevor Griffiths
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And don't use the words "Land" or "Rover" in your business or product name. You'll end up getting "The Letter".
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  #30  
Old September 11th, 2012, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ren Ching
This is all totally stupid.

Go for it dude. Buy a cheaper bender like the ones that other fabricators on here are using and start making stuff. Don't drop the big coin on the big machines until you know you have the volume to pay for it. Just get building and post up when you have a product to show and sell. Just don't become another Bottorf.
That's a good point. All benders make the same bends, it's just a matter of ease of use.
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  #31  
Old September 11th, 2012, 10:45 AM
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Who is Bottorf? I agree, but if I have to spend a little more to get better more consistent bends than I will. I have spent to much time in the past dicking around with protractors and angle finders just too mess up some where and have to start over. If I was planning to just make my stuff then I would never spend this much money, but feel that the investment is going to pay for itself in a short period of time. Thank you all very much! My decision is made and I'm going to nail this down hopefully by the end of the week. I'll keep you guys posted, and will start a build thread with all my stuff! You guys all raised really valuable points, some I thought about others that I still have to research, time to go a hundred miles an hour and see where it takes me! Thanks guys!
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  #32  
Old September 11th, 2012, 10:51 AM
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I've considered making larger parts for Rovers as well. There is definitely something to be said for tried and true designs and production procedures. But that doesn't mean there can't be new designs out there. I say go for it.

As for making $150 an hour, you might be a bit optimistic there. You might have one process that could equate to that rate but don't expect you will be making a buck fifty every hour you work. When you are talking on the phone to insurance companies or customers, making jigs, packing products to ship, moving items to powder coater etc there is a lot of time you aren't really producing anything but running around making it happen. Shit, if I could just sit in front of a tubing bender and make that kind of money I'd drop everything and go buy one of those suckers.
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  #33  
Old September 11th, 2012, 10:57 AM
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$150/hour??? I missed that part. If you/they are charging that much, then the products will be out of reach. As an example, each of my roof racks take about 20 hours to build, at that rate plus materials, it would be a $3500 rack. My flat rate for fabrication is $60/hour, and even then I feel like that's a bit high some times and cut people a break, but it's fair and calculates a fair price for my time and product.
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  #34  
Old September 11th, 2012, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Fabrication
$150/hour??? I missed that part. If you/they are charging that much, then the products will be out of reach. As an example, each of my roof racks take about 20 hours to build, at that rate plus materials, it would be a $3500 rack. My flat rate for fabrication is $60/hour, and even then I feel like that's a bit high some times and cut people a break, but it's fair and calculates a fair price for my time and product.
Taken out of context. The four wheel parts shop has a bunch of fabricators that need stuff bent, not welded assembled or anything else, just bent. The stuff I make will be priced differently, but if some one knocks on my door and needs some bending done then I will bill per hour, and $150 is way cheaper then anywhere around here that I can find. The only place that can do it within three hours is a custom hot rod shop that charges $300 minimum and $225 an hour after first two hours. I will be set up as a custom vender for the shop so they will send everything my way, in return I give them twenty percent of my net from everything that they give me. Pretty sweet if you ask me, my labor for my fabrication was gonna be between $30-$50 depending on project. Trust me when I say this I won't feel bad for charging these guys, one has an H3 hummer with close to $100k into it. If they have ten thousand dollar axels, they can pay me a few hundred to bend some pipe that no one else will touch.

------ Follow up post added September 11th, 2012 11:14 AM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brewie212
Taken out of context. The four wheel parts shop has a bunch of fabricators that need stuff bent, not welded assembled or anything else, just bent. The stuff I make will be priced differently, but if some one knocks on my door and needs some bending done then I will bill per hour, and $150 is way cheaper then anywhere around here that I can find. The only place that can do it within three hours is a custom hot rod shop that charges $300 minimum and $225 an hour after first two hours. I will be set up as a custom vender for the shop so they will send everything my way, in return I give them twenty percent of my net from everything that they give me. Pretty sweet if you ask me, my labor for my fabrication was gonna be between $30-$50 depending on project. Trust me when I say this I won't feel bad for charging these guys, one has an H3 hummer with close to $100k into it. If they have ten thousand dollar axels, they can pay me a few hundred to bend some pipe that no one else will touch.
Friends and buddies all I charge is a good bottle of whiskey! You should see my collection, picked up a bottle of eagle rare just last night for doing my buddies rear breaks on his 330xi! They all know I never charge them for my help, they ALL ALWAYS KNOW to bring me a bottle or two depending on the size of the job.
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  #35  
Old September 11th, 2012, 11:16 AM
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Go for it man, get set up with your buddies, get that bending thing going and when you are set up to take a few ideas from us, let us know!!!!!!


~Steve
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  #36  
Old September 11th, 2012, 11:26 AM
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You need to start with a real, well thought out, business plan and a capital budget. Then put sales and marketing plan together, with realistic sales numbers, the you need to cut your sales projections by 75%. If you survey your friends, family, contacts and etc, half will encourage you, the other half will shit on your dream.

Always go by the old mantra, that: "It takes twice as long and costs twice as much."

You can build a successful business, but not on 20-30 hours per month, more like 16 hours a day. Their is no rest, or taking your foot off the gas, until you delegate to a decent sized staff. Then, you need to keep up the pace, so you can make payroll.

I would not focus on a niche market right away, until you build a brand, a reputation and product line. 97% of people don't modify the trucks...

Get to work!
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  #37  
Old September 11th, 2012, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woldd90
You need to start with a real, well thought out, business plan and a capital budget. Then put sales and marketing plan together, with realistic sales numbers, the you need to cut your sales projections by 75%. If you survey your friends, family, contacts and etc, half will encourage you, the other half will shit on your dream.

Always go by the old mantra, that: "It takes twice as long and costs twice as much."

You can build a successful business, but not on 20-30 hours per month, more like 16 hours a day. Their is no rest, or taking your foot off the gas, until you delegate to a decent sized staff. Then, you need to keep up the pace, so you can make payroll.

I would not focus on a niche market right away, until you build a brand, a reputation and product line. 97% of people don't modify the trucks...

Get to work!
Wait a minute brotha, I work full time for a IT company making good money! Not planning on 16 hour days but 16 hour months! I love your enthusiasm but this is really just gonna be a side gig, when it comes to me growing you are the first one I will reach out to. You definitely sound like you know what your talking about! I would love one day to make it big but for now it's just gonna be me my bender and mister TIG. Small simple and stupid!! As for the niche market, I like rovers and wanted to see your responses, definitely won't be pigeon holing myself to just LR's, for the simple fact there aren't a lot of them. But I do want them to be a part of what I really love doing bc other wise why do it?
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  #38  
Old September 11th, 2012, 12:03 PM
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As a side business, you certainly can be much more flexible... I thought you were heading out into a full-time gig.

See you at Uwharrie!
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  #39  
Old September 11th, 2012, 12:05 PM
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Brian Kandefer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woldd90
As a side business, you certainly can be much more flexible... I thought you were heading out into a full-time gig.

See you at Uwharrie!
Hell yeah you will!! My first time out their I hope I don't puss out!
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  #40  
Old September 11th, 2012, 01:20 PM
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IMO: you have two options.

1. Start building stuff and figure out if you really have the skills to make something people are interested in buying. If so, then just run with it. If the capital investment is trivial (e.g. what a hobbyist would spend), then this makes sense. However, the failure rate for half assed business ventures is obscenely high.


2. Develop some prototype designs and build some stuff for yourself. Concurrently, (even for a part-time venture) develop a *realistic* business plan, marketing plan etc. (you've had some good advice along these lines already). What are the costs for shop space, insurance, utilities... The failure rate for well thought out ventures is just high.

A few other thoughts: What's your labor rate, $150, 30 or a bottle? $150/hr to bend "pipe" (confidence inspiring)? If so, for how many hours? You mentioned access to CNC machines. At what cost? Gratis from a friend? If so, for how many hours. Every minute they spend doing stuff for you at less than their regular rate is a gift to you, and money lost for them. Do you expect this to continue indefinitely? Charging buddies a bottle or two is very different than $xx/hr. One off production is much more expensive than volume production. The design work required for the first item produced is carried by the first/only item produced v spread out over n items in volume production. If you don't have enough experience to make perfect bends, get it before you make roll cages. Product liability insurance for roll cages is mandatory.
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