Buyer Beware: Rover Classic in Staten Island, NY - Page 2 - Defender Source
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  #21  
Old April 21st, 2015, 01:38 PM
RRCNY
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Michael
none
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Location: New york
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I guess if Phil Han is talking about me ( roverclassic ) so I should respond.

We never agreed on the final price, my message to him was 12000 for the car and 700 for the delivery. Han was sent to the site if he wanted to complete the sale.

My website clearly lists document fee that will be added to EACH car that is sold. Han read the terms of sale and agreed to them before making the deposit. I do not scam people, everything is right there in very simple terms.

Michael
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  #22  
Old April 21st, 2015, 01:40 PM
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tjfslaughter
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thomas
Burbon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RRCNY View Post
I guess if Phil Han is talking about me ( roverclassic ) so I should respond. We never agreed on the final price, my message to him was 12000 for the car and 700 for the delivery. Han was sent to the site if he wanted to complete the sale. My website clearly lists document fee that will be added to EACH car that is sold. Han read the terms of sale and agreed to them before making the deposit. I do not scam people, everything is right there in very simple terms. Michael
If you never agreed on a price how can you enforce a non-refundable deposit? Isn't that basic contract law?
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  #23  
Old April 21st, 2015, 01:50 PM
cleanmoto
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Phil Han
Range Rover Sport
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Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 21
Thank you Michael for coming on here. Please do the right thing and refund my deposit.
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  #24  
Old April 21st, 2015, 01:50 PM
RRCNY
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Michael
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tjfslaughter: Forum ate my paragraph format. It should look like this:........

We never agreed on the final price, my message to Han was 12000 for the car and 700 for the delivery to CleanMoto. Han was sent to the site if he wanted to complete the sale.

......

My website clearly lists document fee that will be added to EACH car that is sold. Han read the terms of sale and agreed to them before making the deposit.
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  #25  
Old April 21st, 2015, 01:50 PM
cleanmoto
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Phil Han
Range Rover Sport
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Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjfslaughter View Post
If you never agreed on a price how can you enforce a non-refundable deposit? Isn't that basic contract law?
Exactly! Why on earth would I send you a deposit if we didn't agree on a price?
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  #26  
Old April 21st, 2015, 01:51 PM
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down_shift
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Russell
94' D90 ST & 06' LR3
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Leesburg, VA
Posts: 4,118
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This must be the RRC in question and the terms. Looks to be a $149 fee added. Is that the scope of what is in dispute? Also, Michael, your LD's are absurd and clearly exceed your actual damaged incurred. A judge would throw that out in two seconds. Something to consider before being challenged one day.
Rover Classic : Car Detail Page : LAND ROVER RANGE ROVER COUNTY SE ::


TERMS OF SALE
1. Placing a Bid: By bidding on this vehicle you are entering into a legally binding contract to purchase this vehicle and you agree to abide by all terms of sale set forth herein.
2. Vehicle Representation: Although we describe all our vehicles to the best of our abilities, it is still possible that we may have unintentionally made an error or left some information out. Please keep in mind that used vehicles may have typical dings and scratches inherent for their year and mileage. Interior wear should also be considered depending on the vehicle’s year and mileage. Opinions and expectations can vary, so please contact us if you have any questions or concerns regarding the condition of this vehicle. Used cars may not come with all of the original books, keys or accessories. Please review all photos carefully and if there is anything you are not sure about, ask questions prior to bidding. We are not responsible for errors or omissions in our listings. The mileage may be different than advertised due to test drives and demos.
3. Vehicle Inspection: We welcome and encourage potential buyers to inspect the vehicle but such inspections MUST be conducted prior to completion of this auction/sale. This vehicle is available for inspection at any reasonable time. If you choose to have the inspection done by a licensed professional, you must do so at your own expense. It is the responsibility of the buyer to have thoroughly inspected the vehicle, and to have satisfied himself or herself as to the condition and value based solely upon that judgment. Furthermore, it will be assumed that you have inspected this vehicle fully if you have placed the bid or sent in your deposit.
4. Financing: If you are planning to finance this vehicle through a lending institution, you must secure the loan prior to bidding. Secure all finances and be able to follow through with the payment before you bid. Please do not call us for financing help, we do not provide financing.
5. Warranty: Unless stated otherwise, this vehicle is being sold “as is” and "where is" with all faults and possible defects. No representations or warranties are made by seller, either express or implied, including but not limited to warranties of title or implied warranties of merchant ability or fitness for a particular purpose. Nor are any representations or warranties relied upon by bidders in making bids. We are not the first owners of this vehicle and therefore cannot guarantee history, condition, reliability, mileage, title, salvage/history of salvage, function or performance of the vehicle. You are only buying what we have. Manufacturer’s warranties may still apply. You may chose to purchase extended warranty from many aftermarket warranty companies that can be found online.
6. Vehicle Transportation: Buyer is responsible for shipping and/or pickup of the vehicle. All shipping charges are the buyer’s responsibility. We will not be responsible in any way for claims arising from shipping damage. Shipping companies have insurance policies that protect buyers against damage. If you choose to pickup the vehicle yourself, you would have to take care of your own temporary plates. We do not provide any, nor do we help you in obtaining them. We do not meet you at our local airport, closest airport to us is Newark, NJ.
7. Payment Information: If you are the winning bidder/buyer, you must contact us within 24 hours of winning the auction or getting invoice to set up payment arrangements. We do add 149 dollar fee to every car we sell. We require a 500 dollars non-refundable deposit within twenty-four (24) hours. This deposit can be made through PayPal to fellyNY@gmail.com (Paypal deposit is used to place a hold on the car, it will be refunded back to PayPal, ones the car is Paid in full. Usually this is done with in 1-2 days after the car is paid in full). In the alternative, you can make your deposit Cash in person or Bank wire transfer. If the deposit is not received within the required time frame and alternative arrangements were not made, we reserve the right to make the vehicle available for sale to another buyer. The remaining balance is due within 5 calendar days of making the deposit. You must fax or email us your State issued driver’s license after you make the deposit. We reserve the right to keep your deposit and resell the vehicle to another buyer if final payment is not received within 5 calendar days. As final payment for the vehicle, we will accept a certified bank check, bank loan check, wire transfer, or cash. We will not release the vehicle and/or title until funds clear. If you pay cash, you can pickup the vehicle immediately. If you pay by wire transfer the vehicle will be available for pickup once funds are available in our account. If you pay by bank check, you will have to wait nine (9) business days until the funds clear.
8. Title Information: Vehicle titles may be held by banks or lenders as collateral for loans. In some cases there is a delay in receiving the original paper Title after the vehicle is paid off. While we usually have all titles in our possession at the time of sale, there are occasions where we may have to wait for them to arrive. It may take anywhere from 3 to 7 business days for us to receive the title.
9. Bidder’s Age: You must be 18 years of age or older to bid/purchase.
11. Storage Terms: Once the auction/sale completed, we will store the vehicle free of charge for six (6) calendar days and at 20 dollars per day after that. Ones the payment has been made, the vehicle will be stored free of charge for ten (10) calendar days and at 20 dollars per day after that.
10. Liquidated Damages: In the event that the winning bidder refuses to honor his/her obligation to purchase the vehicle, we shall be entitled to liquidated damages from that bidder as follows:
a. $5,000 in liquidated damages on a vehicle sold for $15,000 or less.
b. $7,000 in liquidated damages on a vehicle sold for $15,001 - $40,000.
c. $10,000 in liquidated damages on a vehicle sold for $40,001 or greater.
11. Choice of Law & Forum: Buyer agrees that in the event any dispute shall arise, it will be governed by and construed in accordance with the laws of the State of New York and litigated in Richmond County. By bidding on this auction/sale buyer consents to service by certified mail.
12. Miscellaneous: We reserve the right to obtain and verify the registered information of all users who bid on this auction/sale. In order to protect the integrity of this auction/deal, buyers with zero or negative feedback must contact us prior to bidding. We reserve the right to cancel any and all bids at our discretion and end the auction early in the event the vehicle is sold locally prior to the end of the auction, we shall not be held liable for such cancellations.
13. Not responsible for Typographical errors, if you are not sure about something just ask us.
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  #27  
Old April 21st, 2015, 01:52 PM
cleanmoto
Status: Offline
Phil Han
Range Rover Sport
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by RRCNY View Post
tjfslaughter: Forum ate my paragraph format. It should look like this:........


We never agreed on the final price, my message to Han was 12000 for the car and 700 for the delivery to CleanMoto 3403 Blue Jay Lane, Austin, TX 78732. Han was sent to the site if he wanted to complete the sale. ......

My website clearly lists document fee that will be added to EACH car that is sold. Han read the terms of sale and agreed to them before making the deposit.
Classic - how you always change your story! 12,700 out the door is very simple and clear language that i used when we spoke

------ Follow up post added April 21st, 2015 12:56 PM ------

C- Rating on BBB, I should have done more research

VSB Enterprises Inc. Review - AUTO DEALERS-ANTIQUE & CLASSIC in Staten Island, NY - BBB Business Review - BBB serving Metropolitan New York, Long Island, and the Mid-Hudson Region
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  #28  
Old April 21st, 2015, 01:58 PM
Ren Ching's Avatar
Ren Ching
Status: Offline
Skinny Pete
'84 90 "Yamelo"/'88 RRC "Chewbacca"
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Downtown
Posts: 4,696
Registry
how much was the higher amount?


Quote:
Originally Posted by cleanmoto View Post
I know it's not a Defender but thought I share this story to protect future buyers. This is for a company called Rover Classic in Staten Island, they do business as VSB Enterprises as well and Saab Classic.

I was looking to purchase a 1989 Range Rover County with them that I saw on ebay. After inquiring on the vehicle and speaking with Mike I agreed to purchase the vehicle for a total out the door price of $12,700. This included shipping to Texas.

I then asked him to send me an invoice and he replied, very rudely, saying he won't send an invoice unless I send him a $500 deposit. I was surprised at his response and felt he was being rude but at that time nothing more. So, I spoke with him just to confirm the condition of the vehicle and the price and afterwards I sent him the deposit.

After sending him the deposit he sends me an invoice for a HIGHER amount. I said this is different than the amount we agreed on - he suggested that these are all dealer fees that are listed on his website. I told him we had agreed upon an out the door price - of course he disagrees. This made me uncomfortable and also made me question the car itself which he claims was in great shape. So I asked him to refund my deposit and that we no longer have a deal since he changed the price on me. He refused. This all happens in a span of 10 hours and he said his policy is to never refund a deposit even after 1 second of receiving it. Now I know why he wanted me to send him the deposit before he would send me the invoice. I called him asking to refund my deposit and he called me a "dick".

I have bought a lot of cars sight unseen and always had a very good experience except this one so wanted to let everyone know about this so no one else loses money to this guy.
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Present:
1960 SII 109"- "Red Square"
1984 90 Tdi- "Yamelo"
1988 RRC- "Chewbacca"
1987 RRC- "Chewy 2"
2008 RRS SC- "The Supersofa"

Past:
1959 SII 88"- "The Little Green Beastie" last seen in NY
1972 SIII 88"- "GreenHELL" now in NC
1988 90 "Eric the Half a Bee" half a truck, sold for parts
1991 RRC- never got a name- long since recycled
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  #29  
Old April 21st, 2015, 01:59 PM
cleanmoto
Status: Offline
Phil Han
Range Rover Sport
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 21
This is the vehicle. I never placed a bid on ebay. I called and emailed to discuss the offer after the ebay listing expired. We agreed to an out the door price of $12,700. I asked him to send me an invoice - he said he won't send me an invoice until I pay him the deposit. I spoke to him yesterday to confirm condition of car and total price. After I hung up I sent him the $500 deposit. Later that night I got an invoice for a DIFFERENT price higher than what we agreed on. I said this amount is higher than the price we agreed to and would like my deposit back. He told me to call him, which I did, and he said I was dick for wanting my deposit back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by down_shift View Post
This must be the RRC in question and the terms. Looks to be a $149 fee added. Is that the scope of what is in dispute?
Rover Classic : Car Detail Page : LAND ROVER RANGE ROVER COUNTY SE ::


TERMS OF SALE
1. Placing a Bid: By bidding on this vehicle you are entering into a legally binding contract to purchase this vehicle and you agree to abide by all terms of sale set forth herein.
2. Vehicle Representation: Although we describe all our vehicles to the best of our abilities, it is still possible that we may have unintentionally made an error or left some information out. Please keep in mind that used vehicles may have typical dings and scratches inherent for their year and mileage. Interior wear should also be considered depending on the vehicle’s year and mileage. Opinions and expectations can vary, so please contact us if you have any questions or concerns regarding the condition of this vehicle. Used cars may not come with all of the original books, keys or accessories. Please review all photos carefully and if there is anything you are not sure about, ask questions prior to bidding. We are not responsible for errors or omissions in our listings. The mileage may be different than advertised due to test drives and demos.
3. Vehicle Inspection: We welcome and encourage potential buyers to inspect the vehicle but such inspections MUST be conducted prior to completion of this auction/sale. This vehicle is available for inspection at any reasonable time. If you choose to have the inspection done by a licensed professional, you must do so at your own expense. It is the responsibility of the buyer to have thoroughly inspected the vehicle, and to have satisfied himself or herself as to the condition and value based solely upon that judgment. Furthermore, it will be assumed that you have inspected this vehicle fully if you have placed the bid or sent in your deposit.
4. Financing: If you are planning to finance this vehicle through a lending institution, you must secure the loan prior to bidding. Secure all finances and be able to follow through with the payment before you bid. Please do not call us for financing help, we do not provide financing.
5. Warranty: Unless stated otherwise, this vehicle is being sold “as is” and "where is" with all faults and possible defects. No representations or warranties are made by seller, either express or implied, including but not limited to warranties of title or implied warranties of merchant ability or fitness for a particular purpose. Nor are any representations or warranties relied upon by bidders in making bids. We are not the first owners of this vehicle and therefore cannot guarantee history, condition, reliability, mileage, title, salvage/history of salvage, function or performance of the vehicle. You are only buying what we have. Manufacturer’s warranties may still apply. You may chose to purchase extended warranty from many aftermarket warranty companies that can be found online.
6. Vehicle Transportation: Buyer is responsible for shipping and/or pickup of the vehicle. All shipping charges are the buyer’s responsibility. We will not be responsible in any way for claims arising from shipping damage. Shipping companies have insurance policies that protect buyers against damage. If you choose to pickup the vehicle yourself, you would have to take care of your own temporary plates. We do not provide any, nor do we help you in obtaining them. We do not meet you at our local airport, closest airport to us is Newark, NJ.
7. Payment Information: If you are the winning bidder/buyer, you must contact us within 24 hours of winning the auction or getting invoice to set up payment arrangements. We do add 149 dollar fee to every car we sell. We require a 500 dollars non-refundable deposit within twenty-four (24) hours. This deposit can be made through PayPal to fellyNY@gmail.com (Paypal deposit is used to place a hold on the car, it will be refunded back to PayPal, ones the car is Paid in full. Usually this is done with in 1-2 days after the car is paid in full). In the alternative, you can make your deposit Cash in person or Bank wire transfer. If the deposit is not received within the required time frame and alternative arrangements were not made, we reserve the right to make the vehicle available for sale to another buyer. The remaining balance is due within 5 calendar days of making the deposit. You must fax or email us your State issued driver’s license after you make the deposit. We reserve the right to keep your deposit and resell the vehicle to another buyer if final payment is not received within 5 calendar days. As final payment for the vehicle, we will accept a certified bank check, bank loan check, wire transfer, or cash. We will not release the vehicle and/or title until funds clear. If you pay cash, you can pickup the vehicle immediately. If you pay by wire transfer the vehicle will be available for pickup once funds are available in our account. If you pay by bank check, you will have to wait nine (9) business days until the funds clear.
8. Title Information: Vehicle titles may be held by banks or lenders as collateral for loans. In some cases there is a delay in receiving the original paper Title after the vehicle is paid off. While we usually have all titles in our possession at the time of sale, there are occasions where we may have to wait for them to arrive. It may take anywhere from 3 to 7 business days for us to receive the title.
9. Bidder’s Age: You must be 18 years of age or older to bid/purchase.
11. Storage Terms: Once the auction/sale completed, we will store the vehicle free of charge for six (6) calendar days and at 20 dollars per day after that. Ones the payment has been made, the vehicle will be stored free of charge for ten (10) calendar days and at 20 dollars per day after that.
10. Liquidated Damages: In the event that the winning bidder refuses to honor his/her obligation to purchase the vehicle, we shall be entitled to liquidated damages from that bidder as follows:
a. $5,000 in liquidated damages on a vehicle sold for $15,000 or less.
b. $7,000 in liquidated damages on a vehicle sold for $15,001 - $40,000.
c. $10,000 in liquidated damages on a vehicle sold for $40,001 or greater.
11. Choice of Law & Forum: Buyer agrees that in the event any dispute shall arise, it will be governed by and construed in accordance with the laws of the State of New York and litigated in Richmond County. By bidding on this auction/sale buyer consents to service by certified mail.
12. Miscellaneous: We reserve the right to obtain and verify the registered information of all users who bid on this auction/sale. In order to protect the integrity of this auction/deal, buyers with zero or negative feedback must contact us prior to bidding. We reserve the right to cancel any and all bids at our discretion and end the auction early in the event the vehicle is sold locally prior to the end of the auction, we shall not be held liable for such cancellations.
13. Not responsible for Typographical errors, if you are not sure about something just ask us.
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  #30  
Old April 21st, 2015, 02:03 PM
down_shift's Avatar
down_shift
Status: Offline
Russell
94' D90 ST & 06' LR3
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Leesburg, VA
Posts: 4,118
Registry
Phil and Michael. Is the dispute over $149? That can't be worked out offline?
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  #31  
Old April 21st, 2015, 02:09 PM
cleanmoto
Status: Offline
Phil Han
Range Rover Sport
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Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by down_shift View Post
Phil and Michael. Is the dispute over $149? That can't be worked out offline?
I tried, but his response and professionalism is lacking and that also made me question everything he told me about the car. I tried to call him to work it out and he got defensive and started calling me names. Why on earth would I then give money to a person insulting me? It's been a day now since I sent him the deposit and he did nothing to resolve the situation except calling me names and threatening to sue me.
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  #32  
Old April 21st, 2015, 02:11 PM
RRCNY
Status: Offline
Michael
none
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: New york
Posts: 3
The invoice was 1200 (0) +700+149. Just like my listing states. I never change my story and will take it in front of BBB or Attorney General or where else Han send this complaint. How can I send invoice if i do not have a name or address for the person ?
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  #33  
Old April 21st, 2015, 02:12 PM
mgreenspan's Avatar
mgreenspan
Status: Offline
Matthew Greenspan
Land Rovers
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Nevada City
Posts: 1,719
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by down_shift View Post
Phil and Michael. Is the dispute over $149? That can't be worked out offline?
Yeah. I'm all for Internet slagging fest.... but $12700 vs $12849 for a RRC is the same thing. Too much.
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  #34  
Old April 21st, 2015, 02:13 PM
cleanmoto
Status: Offline
Phil Han
Range Rover Sport
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by RRCNY View Post
The invoice was 1200+700+149. Just like my listing states. I never change my story and will take it in front of BBB or Attorney General or where else Han send this complaint. How can I send invoice if i do not have a name or address for the person ?
C-- rating on BBB apparently i'm not the only one
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  #35  
Old April 21st, 2015, 02:14 PM
Ren Ching's Avatar
Ren Ching
Status: Offline
Skinny Pete
'84 90 "Yamelo"/'88 RRC "Chewbacca"
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Downtown
Posts: 4,696
Registry
You guys need to both go to your corners. How about you split the $149?

OTOH, perhaps the OP just got cold feet and is using the fee to try to back out?
__________________

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Present:
1960 SII 109"- "Red Square"
1984 90 Tdi- "Yamelo"
1988 RRC- "Chewbacca"
1987 RRC- "Chewy 2"
2008 RRS SC- "The Supersofa"

Past:
1959 SII 88"- "The Little Green Beastie" last seen in NY
1972 SIII 88"- "GreenHELL" now in NC
1988 90 "Eric the Half a Bee" half a truck, sold for parts
1991 RRC- never got a name- long since recycled
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  #36  
Old April 21st, 2015, 02:15 PM
down_shift's Avatar
down_shift
Status: Offline
Russell
94' D90 ST & 06' LR3
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Leesburg, VA
Posts: 4,118
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by cleanmoto View Post
I tried, but his response and professionalism is lacking and that also made me question everything he told me about the car. I tried to call him to work it out and he got defensive and started calling me names. Why on earth would I then give money to a person insulting me? It's been a day now since I sent him the deposit and he did nothing to resolve the situation except calling me names and threatening to sue me.


1. Placing a Bid: By bidding on this vehicle you are entering into a legally binding contract to purchase this vehicle and you agree to abide by all terms of sale set forth herein.



The twelve following terms don't apply to you as you did not place a bid on the vehicle.
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  #37  
Old April 21st, 2015, 02:15 PM
o2batsea's Avatar
o2batsea
Status: Offline
Bill Adams
66 109 sw 94 lwb
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Location: kensington md
Posts: 6,498
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Since this isn't a for sale thread I can say that is awfully huge coin for an old Classic. Like three times what I'd pay, but that's just me.
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Bill Adams

1966 109 5 door wagon 300Tdi "spermaceti fueled"
1994 RRC LeWiB "ruining the air behind me"
1968 2A 88

All my troubles are Rover
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  #38  
Old April 21st, 2015, 02:18 PM
cleanmoto
Status: Offline
Phil Han
Range Rover Sport
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by o2batsea View Post
Since this isn't a for sale thread I can say that is awfully huge coin for an old Classic. Like three times what I'd pay, but that's just me.
Exactly I knew I was paying top dollar so any amount over that agreed upon price was not cool!

------ Follow up post added April 21st, 2015 01:22 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ren Ching View Post
You guys need to both go to your corners. How about you split the $149?

OTOH, perhaps the OP just got cold feet and is using the fee to try to back out?
No cold feet, still looking for a nice white Classic. It was his response back that made me not want to do the deal - if he was civil about it I'm sure we could have worked it out but again I never got called a dick from a used car dealer or told to go to porn.com to file a complaint. Imagine that I did buy the truck and there was an issue I know that I can't count on Roverclassic to do the right thing.

Ok I will cool off and just let my credit card company deal with it.
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  #39  
Old April 21st, 2015, 02:29 PM
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LuisC
Status: Offline
Luis Constantin
98 Disvovery 1 LE
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Austin,Texas USA
Posts: 1,898
Registry
Terms and Conditions always seem to be written in such a way as to always be biased towards to seller and therefore makes it legal and binding even when the said Terms and Conditions are unethical.

I am so glad that I have the benefits of flying to a location to inspect before dropping a dime.
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  #40  
Old April 21st, 2015, 02:30 PM
Ren Ching's Avatar
Ren Ching
Status: Offline
Skinny Pete
'84 90 "Yamelo"/'88 RRC "Chewbacca"
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Downtown
Posts: 4,696
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by cleanmoto View Post
I never got called a dick from a used car dealer or told to go to porn.com to file a complaint.
Lol, welcome to Long Island. Fuhgeddaboutit
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Present:
1960 SII 109"- "Red Square"
1984 90 Tdi- "Yamelo"
1988 RRC- "Chewbacca"
1987 RRC- "Chewy 2"
2008 RRS SC- "The Supersofa"

Past:
1959 SII 88"- "The Little Green Beastie" last seen in NY
1972 SIII 88"- "GreenHELL" now in NC
1988 90 "Eric the Half a Bee" half a truck, sold for parts
1991 RRC- never got a name- long since recycled
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