ARKONIK's Response to: Homeland Security took my 110 - Page 15 - Defender Source
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  #281  
Old November 29th, 2015, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by jason1st View Post
B.S. I've had many Range Rovers. None leaked.
They probably did, but you didn't see it. Most Range Rovers ('03-'12) leak water in to the left rear behind the cargo trim. It is bad enough that Land Rover makes a water shedder (plastic sheet) to cover all of the electronics in the back.

That being said, all of the leaks can be fixed at the dealership under warranty.
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  #282  
Old November 29th, 2015, 02:27 PM
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So are you proposing they replace the drivetrains once the vehicle is imported? Do you know if thats even legal?


As far your RR.. yes it leaked you just didnt notice. My wifes 95 LWB leaks and so does the new one....
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  #283  
Old November 29th, 2015, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by JSBriggs View Post
Having spent some time in Oakland, these Arkonic builds have much more in common with the Donk crowd (not wheels size but build methodology) than an Emory Porsche, or an Icon FJ.
This is the heart of the discussion, IMO. These appear to be "low end" builds. There is nothing wrong with that as long as the price tag and the marketing matches up with what they are producing. There is room for all levels of fabrication, but the buyers need to know what they are getting.

On the leakage issue... Any build that incorporates a body dismantle, paint and assemble should be leak free. If it is not, the builder in an amateur. Any builder that tells you "all Land Rovers leak" after he has done this work has no credibility. Period, end of story. If the body has not been touched then that should be clear and then leaks may happen.
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  #284  
Old November 29th, 2015, 02:36 PM
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Jason Crandall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenix37 View Post
So are you proposing they replace the drivetrains once the vehicle is imported? Do you know if thats even legal?


As far your RR.. yes it leaked you just didnt notice. My wifes 95 LWB leaks and so does the new one....
What does drive train have to do with leaks?

------ Follow up post added November 29th, 2015 03:36 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
On the leakage issue... Any build that incorporates a body dismantle, paint and assemble should be leak free. If it is not, the builder in an amateur. Any builder that tells you "all Land Rovers leak" after he has done this work has no credibility. Period, end of story. If the body has not been touched then that should be clear and then leaks may happen.
Agree 100%
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  #285  
Old November 29th, 2015, 02:38 PM
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nothing to do with leaks... i was asking you to explain this statement.


"I'm talking about one's already imported. Mine has a brand new drive train"
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  #286  
Old November 29th, 2015, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
This is the heart of the discussion, IMO. These appear to be "low end" builds. There is nothing wrong with that as long as the price tag and the marketing matches up with what they are producing. There is room for all levels of fabrication, but the buyers need to know what they are getting. On the leakage issue... Any build that incorporates a body dismantle, paint and assemble should be leak free. If it is not, the builder in an amateur. Any builder that tells you "all Land Rovers leak" after he has done this work has no credibility. Period, end of story. If the body has not been touched then that should be clear and then leaks may happen.
Totally agree! A $100K RR shouldn't leak anymore than $100K 110. The whole reason people pay that kind of money is that you can't buy a new one at the dealership. I love my NAS but still need to have the family car, would be nice to have a 110 that had the standard luxuries of a Chevy Tahoe, quiet ride, electronics, etc. would rather have one than the new RR.
There are people paying more for 25 yr old leaky beaters on this site than what it takes to buy a new one off the showroom floor around the world. So we can't say most of us wouldn't jump at the chance to have a brand new shiny 110 with a 5 cyl Turbo diesel with plenty of horsepower.

I actually think that a 110 should leak less when you pay that kind of money. You would think you are paying for a restoration shop to iron out those leak issues. No different than a home contractor working with a roofer to create a flashing system to divert water ingress.
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  #287  
Old November 29th, 2015, 03:12 PM
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Everyone keeps comparing new range rovers to old defenders, if you have EVER built an old defender you would know that there are hundreds more places water can get in than a later Range Rover, just look at the floor panels and seat box etc etc... And we won't even go into where to door seals meet the body corners etc... These trucks were meant to be pulled apart easily in the field with limited tools...I would like to see you do a clutch in a Range Rover from inside the truck without dropping the transmission or the use of a lift.. Sure, you could seam seal the crap out of all the panels and then paint over the whole lot and then insulate it and sound deadening and glue nice carpet down etc etc,,,,same with the bulkhead...these trucks were not designed with waterproofing being their primary design feature... There is a reason defended had removable floor mats and carpeting...and used rubber tunnel covers etc etc... They were meant to get wet, and dry out.. If you want waterproofing buy an older Toyota landcruiser, they are pretty cool also. But I dunno about them being totally waterproof either..
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  #288  
Old November 29th, 2015, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by JSBriggs View Post
Makes me wonder if the u-joints are replaced.

-Jeff
Why would they be replaced? Customers have to know to ask for that stuff and it costs extra.
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  #289  
Old November 29th, 2015, 03:42 PM
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New Range rovers and new Defenders can not be compared...period. I drove a 2015 Range Rover (4.4 diesel) and a 2015 Defender (2.2 diesel) through a lot of water at the LR driving experience at Eastman - the instructor said the RR comes with a sensor that when it "floats" in water the computer lowers the wheels up to 7" to gain traction...the Defender you open the doors to let the water out...they are "designed to leak" - in fact the build tolerance of the dang things from the factory are 1/4" - the Range Rover is "thousands of an inch".

No way they can be compared.
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  #290  
Old November 29th, 2015, 04:02 PM
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This thread has gone off the rails.

Would like to hear more about the truck once prestige looks at it.
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  #291  
Old November 29th, 2015, 04:05 PM
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The first rover I ever drove, a 2009 with 15k kilometers on it, poured water down the interior of the windscreen and dash.
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  #292  
Old November 29th, 2015, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenix37 View Post
nothing to do with leaks... i was asking you to explain this statement.


"I'm talking about one's already imported. Mine has a brand new drive train"
I'm saying this because I hear "Defenders leak" from restoration shops on both sides of the pond.

If you're spending $100K on a Defender, it shouldn't leak. So to be a restoration shop turning out a Defender that leaks means you suck at being a restoration shop. The "gold standard" of a Defender build is not the factory. A new one from the factory is $40K. A $100K Defender should not leak.
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  #293  
Old November 29th, 2015, 04:19 PM
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not my question...what does this mean?

"I'm talking about one's already imported. Mine has a brand new drive train"

Your 83 110 was imported with a brand new drivetrain?
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  #294  
Old November 29th, 2015, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenix37 View Post
not my question...what does this mean?

"I'm talking about one's already imported. Mine has a brand new drive train"

Your 83 110 was imported with a brand new drivetrain?
You said "Your better than new caddy will have a new drive train". To which I said, "My Defender has a new one, I put it in".

Once again, a new drive train has nothing to do with leaky doors and roof.

A restored $100K classic caddy is better than it ever was when it left the factory. The whole point spending $100K restoring a car is to make it better than new.. Not to make it a $40K car from the factory.

"That's how new ones are from the factory" is a pathetic excuse.
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  #295  
Old November 29th, 2015, 05:13 PM
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  #296  
Old November 29th, 2015, 05:15 PM
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You don't get it dude..

you installed that drivetrain once it got here...I also have a modern drivetrain in my 110 but i couldn't of brought it over that way.
you're also operating under the assumption you can buy a brand new defender in this country and the fact is you can't and you can't import one.... Yes a brand new defender is 40k from the factory and when people were importing them illegally on old frames that brand new 40k defender sold for 80k once it cleared customs...

all my NAS Defenders leaked... i come out after a rain storm and find a nice puddle of water on my floor mats... you pull the mats out pour out the water put them back in and move on...the problem these guys have is they glued the carpet down... once it gets wet your screwed.
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  #297  
Old November 29th, 2015, 05:21 PM
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Jason Crandall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenix37 View Post
You don't get it dude..

you installed that drivetrain once it got here...I also have a modern drivetrain in my 110 but i couldn't of brought it over that way.
you're also operating under the assumption you can buy a brand new defender in this country and the fact is you can't and you can't import one.... Yes a brand new defender is 40k from the factory and when people were importing them illegally on old frames that brand new 40k defender sold for 80k once it cleared customs...

all my NAS Defenders leaked... i come out after a rain storm and find a nice puddle of water on my floor mats... you pull the mats out pour out the water put them back in and move on...the problem these guys have is they glued the carpet down... once it gets wet your screwed.
You don't get it dude.

I don't care that I can't buy a new one here in the U.S. That doesn't matter. I don't want a new one. I want a "better than new one".

I don't care that your 20 year old NAS Defender leaked. I don't want a 20 year old NAS Defender.

Do you think that $175K SPECTRE 130 advertised here by East Coast Defender leaks? Do you think that truck is built to the standard of what's coming new out of the factory for $40K?

A $100K build should not be to the standard of a new one in the UK. It should be loads better.
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  #298  
Old November 29th, 2015, 05:27 PM
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I saw that 130 in person and yes i bet it does leak...

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  #299  
Old November 29th, 2015, 05:27 PM
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Who are the guys that went to Arkonik?
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  #300  
Old November 29th, 2015, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenix37 View Post
I saw that truck in person and yes i bet it does leak...

What about a Defender makes it impossible to seal up regardless of $$$ spent?
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