ARKONIK's Response to: Homeland Security took my 110 - Page 14 - Defender Source
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  #261  
Old November 28th, 2015, 04:20 PM
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Julian Kotting
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99% of Defenders Leak, its a known fact.

look at this video, i don't know how to embed it.

https://youtu.be/rvC4EQvx5Mg
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  #262  
Old November 28th, 2015, 04:32 PM
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Loved that video Julian. Pseudo-AC/DC...Peter Frampton driving...mini-me riding shotgun....Defender in its natural environment....it kinda put a spring in my step for the rest of the day.
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  #263  
Old November 28th, 2015, 04:35 PM
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shayne young
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That's a cool chick...and the look on the kids face was like..aha, no big deal..lol..
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  #264  
Old November 28th, 2015, 08:50 PM
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I agree with almost everything that has been said here today.
One last time. I know all about Nantucket having lived there part time for ten years. I have owned a D90 soft top and had owned a 109 5 door for 10 years. Both trucks are kept in a heated garage. After occasional romps on the beach, not in the water, the trucks are carefully washed.
The new 110 was given the same care, actually better, this past summer.
I have never experienced rust on 90 or 110. Stuart from Copley motors examined the D90 last July, feel free to ask him.
I know the rust can be "managed". Would you like to see rust coming through a new paint job in two months after delivery? Nuff said.
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  #265  
Old November 28th, 2015, 09:38 PM
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There seems to be one common theme with polished turd owners. They only come here after it is delivered.
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  #266  
Old November 29th, 2015, 06:51 AM
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Jason Crandall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
There seems to be one common theme with polished turd owners. They only come here after it is delivered.
What would you do?

------ Follow up post added November 29th, 2015 06:54 AM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenix37 View Post
Eric have you seen a brand new defender? Having just toured the factory i can tell you that brand spanking new defenders have visible spot welds/ripples and rivets in the body panels.. There is nothing remotely resembling high end coach works going on in the defender assembly line..

In my opinion that is what a defender is supposed to look like... The problem is that the buyers of these highly customized Defenders want them to have the same finish of their wifes G wagon and in order to achieve that look you need alot of filler...on every brand new body panel... not my choice but no other way to achieve a flawless look in an inherently flawed vehicle
Why is the Defender assembly facility the benchmark? I want it better than that if I'm paying $100K+ for a restored truck.

If you look at a restored Cadillac from the 1950's that a guy put $100K into it's better than it ever was when it left the factory.

A shop saying "well, new Defender's leak" is basically saying "I suck and don't want to try very hard".
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  #267  
Old November 29th, 2015, 08:38 AM
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Raub A.
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I do wonder if ICON, Twisted, ECR and others have leaky vehicles?
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  #268  
Old November 29th, 2015, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jason1st View Post
What would you do?

------ Follow up post added November 29th, 2015 06:54 AM ------



Why is the Defender assembly facility the benchmark? I want it better than that if I'm paying $100K+ for a restored truck.

If you look at a restored Cadillac from the 1950's that a guy put $100K into it's better than it ever was when it left the factory.
A shop saying "well, new Defender's leak" is basically saying "I suck and don't want to try very hard".
That better than new caddy will no doubt have a modern drivetrain which wouldnt be legal to import for starters but ultimately that caddy will still be meant for cruising the street in comfort and style.... the purpose for which it was originally built.. Unlike these defenders which are no longer working in farmers fields etc..
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  #269  
Old November 29th, 2015, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenix37 View Post
Eric have you seen a brand new defender? Having just toured the factory i can tell you that brand spanking new defenders have visible spot welds/ripples and rivets in the body panels.. There is nothing remotely resembling high end coach works going on in the defender assembly line..
A new Defender isn't $150k and will have a warranty that covers water leaks.

All LR3/LR4/RRS's leak water, but that doesn't mean we send customers at the dealership away because "They all leak".
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  #270  
Old November 29th, 2015, 10:36 AM
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barry f
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenix37 View Post
That better than new caddy will no doubt have a modern drivetrain which wouldnt be legal to import for starters but ultimately that caddy will still be meant for cruising the street in comfort and style.... the purpose for which it was originally built.. Unlike these defenders which are no longer working in farmers fields etc..
John, I don't really get your point. Your whole defense is they are starting with an inferior product so they get a pass for shitty work. Does ecr use this excuse? Safari rover? Also I don't see a single customer asking for perfect panels. Maybe perfect body gaps but not perfect panels. The whole bondo and seam deal seems to be what Andy perceives the customer to want. How about less time with body filler and more time making a decent truck via a drivetrain that works or door seals that are properly installed. I'm sure customers would be happier.
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  #271  
Old November 29th, 2015, 10:45 AM
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Barry unlike back in the day when you could drop a brand new puma on an old frame and ship it over these guys are starting with 25 year old vehicles... so how good can you possibly make that drivetrain? the 2.5 and 3.5 suck as a starting point so aint going to get much better if you want it to clear customs.

Im not defending anybody and I'm certainly not a customer for one of these vehicles. Id take two NAS trucks over a fancy ROW any day but thats just me.

Ive seen them take brand new body panels which personally i would rather see primed and painted as is and fill in all the imperfections because those are the finishes their customers are asking for..

I drove in one of their new trucks after a serious rain and honestly it leaked less than my wifes range rover...

As i said I'm not giving anyone a pass... the market has already spoken which is why the defender is ending production.. people would rather have Evoques and RRs than 110s.
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  #272  
Old November 29th, 2015, 11:08 AM
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Luis Constantin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jymmiejamz View Post
A new Defender isn't $150k and will have a warranty that covers water leaks. All LR3/LR4/RRS's leak water, but that doesn't mean we send customers at the dealership away because "They all leak".
That's funny. My 98 Disco doesn't seem to have any leaks. Don't recall it having ever leaked. So things aren't progressively improving like they should.
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  #273  
Old November 29th, 2015, 11:24 AM
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barry f
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenix37 View Post
Barry unlike back in the day when you could drop a brand new puma on an old frame and ship it over these guys are starting with 25 year old vehicles... so how good can you possibly make that drivetrain? the 2.5 and 3.5 suck as a starting point so aint going to get much better if you want it to clear customs. Im not defending anybody and I'm certainly not a customer for one of these vehicles. Id take two NAS trucks over a fancy ROW any day but thats just me. Ive seen them take brand new body panels which personally i would rather see primed and painted as is and fill in all the imperfections because those are the finishes their customers are asking for.. I drove in one of their new trucks after a serious rain and honestly it leaked less than my wifes range rover... As i said I'm not giving anyone a pass... the market has already spoken which is why the defender is ending production.. people would rather have Evoques and RRs than 110s.
No offense to the customers who buy this crap but it looks like most of them know nothing about defenders. They want two things:
1. A 110
2. A truck that looks cool - metallic paint and big stupid wheels.

I don't think any of them know anything about perfect panels. Maybe if the trucks came with normal looking panels they would complain about that too. I have no idea.

This market makes no sense to me. As you said even with perfect paint these trucks will still have the worst drivetrains. I wonder if Andy or anyone else explains that to customers. They seem quick to ship you guys over to see their faculty. I wonder if they bought customers plane tickets before a sale so they could drive one of these restored trucks how many sales they would actually have.
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  #274  
Old November 29th, 2015, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuisC View Post
That's funny. My 98 Disco doesn't seem to have any leaks. Don't recall it having ever leaked. So things aren't progressively improving like they should.
Did you buy it new?
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  #275  
Old November 29th, 2015, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuisC View Post
That's funny. My 98 Disco doesn't seem to have any leaks. Don't recall it having ever leaked. So things aren't progressively improving like they should.
Here are some of the known common water leak issues for a '98 Discovery...







This doesn't even include the most common which is warped sunroof trays that cause the drain pan to become over loaded with water and overflow into the passenger compartment.
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  #276  
Old November 29th, 2015, 12:40 PM
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Scott Pelly
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Originally Posted by phoenix37 View Post
As i said I'm not giving anyone a pass... the market has already spoken which is why the defender is ending production.. people would rather have Evoques and RRs than 110s.
Defender sales have been very strong in the last few years. Production is ending mainly due to 2 things:

1 Cost. These are hand built trucks. They are producing about 115 a day right now, compared to any automated assembly like Range Rover, which is somewhere close to 3X that, with a considerably higher margin of profit. Other than 3 robots doing some of the bulkhead welding, and 1 applying seam sealer to the doors, production of the bodies, and assembly has remained virtually un-changed in 70 years. It doesn't make economic sense to JLR & TATA

2 Safety and pollution regulations. The EU's regulations are changing again, and another change in engine, and the introduction of an airbag system is not economically viable in this vehicle. It would just add hundreds of millions to the overall cost of a vehicle that has the lowest margins in the product line.
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  #277  
Old November 29th, 2015, 12:43 PM
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Craig
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjf View Post
No offense to the customers who buy this crap but it looks like most of them know nothing about defenders. They want two things:
1. A 110
2. A truck that looks cool - metallic paint and big stupid wheels.

I don't think any of them know anything about perfect panels. Maybe if the trucks came with normal looking panels they would complain about that too. I have no idea.
Agreed - but there is a market for them, they are built to customer expectations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjf View Post
This market makes no sense to me. As you said even with perfect paint these trucks will still have the worst drivetrains. I wonder if Andy or anyone else explains that to customers. They seem quick to ship you guys over to see their faculty. I wonder if they bought customers plane tickets before a sale so they could drive one of these restored trucks how many sales they would actually have.
Doesn't need to make sense to any of us...fact is they want them.

Yes there is a complete "is this the right vehicle for you" conversation - quite extensive actually - and they do a pretty good job of setting expectations...some people just want them that bad because they are sooooooo cool.
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  #278  
Old November 29th, 2015, 01:07 PM
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john
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I blame the Kardashians.....
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  #279  
Old November 29th, 2015, 01:41 PM
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Luis Constantin
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Originally Posted by Jymmiejamz View Post
Did you buy it new?
I did buy it new. The dealer kept trying to make me hold off for one of the D2. But I was resistant. I wanted fewer computers, not more.

------ Follow up post added November 29th, 2015 12:42 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jymmiejamz View Post
Here are some of the known common water leak issues for a '98 Discovery... This doesn't even include the most common which is warped sunroof trays that cause the drain pan to become over loaded with water and overflow into the passenger compartment.
Now that you bring these up, I will probably suffer some bad juju and it will start to leak like Niagra falls.
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  #280  
Old November 29th, 2015, 03:15 PM
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Jason Crandall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenix37 View Post
That better than new caddy will no doubt have a modern drivetrain which wouldnt be legal to import for starters but ultimately that caddy will still be meant for cruising the street in comfort and style.... the purpose for which it was originally built.. Unlike these defenders which are no longer working in farmers fields etc..
I'm talking about one's already imported. Mine has a brand new drive train.

------ Follow up post added November 29th, 2015 03:16 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenix37 View Post

I drove in one of their new trucks after a serious rain and honestly it leaked less than my wifes range rover...
B.S. I've had many Range Rovers. None leaked.
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