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  #101  
Old December 1st, 2015, 02:37 PM
the rover shop
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REALLY... Who gives a shit what the guy said...you guys are like a dog with a bone(r)... So he may have exaggerated, but who gives a flying fook... Maybe he is adding the time it takes to find, procure a sale, ship, evaluate, source parts, bill, invoice, ship to customer, answer phones, discuss with a client what he wants, photograph and update build pics for customer etc etc etc... And before you guys jump on me for flip flopping (dunno how that is the case but....some of you love to reach for straws..) I'm not defending anyone, just saying I'm sick of seeing this 4000 hours crap come up... Bottom line, if you want one, buy one, if you don't, don't....they are what they are..and supposed to be better than they were..... .and if you don't have any personal experience on them or seen them first hand then you are just talking out your arse...

------ Follow up post added December 1st, 2015 02:39 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jymmiejamz View Post
This is part of my problem with them. Even if you get one of their full rebuilds and the build quality is top notch, you still get a shitty 3.5L V8 with a carb or a NA diesel.
Blame your government...it's all part of keeping our roads safe from the dangerous land rovers...
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  #102  
Old December 1st, 2015, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Jymmiejamz View Post
This is part of my problem with them. Even if you get one of their full rebuilds and the build quality is top notch, you still get a shitty 3.5L V8 with a carb or a NA diesel.
So jimmy your problem is with a guy making money? Or is it the demand side of the equation? Remember capitalism?
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  #103  
Old December 1st, 2015, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by JimC View Post
One request, please do my truck before you jack your rates
Shit, ECR's prices just went up AND the waiting list just got longer...

should have called before the holiday.
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  #104  
Old December 1st, 2015, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by the rover shop View Post
REALLY... Who gives a shit what the guy said
It is relevant
Like the lot of you wouldn't take me to task if I tossed out some number like that.
It would haunt me til the end of time.
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  #105  
Old December 1st, 2015, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by the rover shop View Post
REALLY... Who gives a shit what the guy said...you guys are like a dog with a bone(r)... So he may have exaggerated, but who gives a flying fook... .
Because. When someone states an obvious lie and refuses to clarify the issue, he loses all credibility. You can no longer trust anything that the person says in the future. When this person is the owner of the company, you lose trust in the company itself. I do at least. You are free to do what you wish.
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  #106  
Old December 1st, 2015, 02:50 PM
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That's a pointless exercise....

Here is some math:

30 people @ 40hrs per week = 1,200 man hours a week

So if he works on one truck for 5 weeks even with crazy rounding errors then I could say that 4,000 hrs isn't ridiculous from a fully loaded cost perspective. See.

Now whether or not you personally could do the EXACT SAME quality or better in less time is neither here nor there...doesn't matter really. Would love to see it though.
There are a couple of points to the hour question.

First they claim they do around 50 trucks a year, so there are not enough hours with the number of employees.

Second, the labour cost is prohibitive. The math is very simple. 4000 hours times $xx per hour....
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  #107  
Old December 1st, 2015, 03:02 PM
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http://www.defendersource.com/forum/...tml#post679348
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkonik View Post
.......
2) You are happy to try to properly understand what it means to spend 4000 hours to utterly dismantle a 25 year old Defender to its frame, its motor to its block, its gearbox's and axles to their casings, its body to nothing and then paint it, rebuild it bolt by bolt, bit by bit....test it for 500 miles and then let it go...
......
Mate we employ 40 people and build between 4 and 5 trucks a month....
My point...was to ask the guys that went there how much labour is truly being put into the builds. I did ask Andy in that thread to clarify, but he would not give an answer.
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  #108  
Old December 1st, 2015, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by vasily View Post
Shit, ECR's prices just went up AND the waiting list just got longer... should have called before the holiday.
The waiting list didn't get longer, you should have dropped your truck off in 2010!

In all fairness, the delay isn't Mike's fault. I've been to the US twice in the last five years. I'm not claiming that 5 years is ECR's normal turn-around time...
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  #109  
Old December 1st, 2015, 04:05 PM
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good lord! Is this thread still going on?
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  #110  
Old December 1st, 2015, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Jonesy View Post
So jimmy your problem is with a guy making money? Or is it the demand side of the equation? Remember capitalism?
My problem is he is selling undesirable trucks at a premium price to people who don't know any better. My biggest complaints about the first truck of theirs I saw was that it had a ribbed roof and a carburetted 3.5L V8. IIRC, I said it looked like a polished turd. Looking under the hood I seem to remember seeing most of the engine brackets painted black rather than cadmium plated. It just didn't look like there was much attention to detail.
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  #111  
Old December 1st, 2015, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jymmiejamz View Post
My problem is he is selling undesirable trucks at a premium price to people who don't know any better. My biggest complaints about the first truck of theirs I saw was that it had a ribbed roof and a carburetted 3.5L V8. IIRC, I said it looked like a polished turd. Looking under the hood I seem to remember seeing most of the engine brackets painted black rather than cadmium plated. It just didn't look like there was much attention to detail.
But people want the trucks. So they are desireable. People want 2015 standard of quality from a 25 year old truck. Buyers should avail themselves of good knowledge about the product or hire someone who does. Should they chose otherwise it's their prerogative.

To add a dose of humor, did you know that Land Rovers not only leak water they can leak paint? Look at the dash on this one!!!!
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A friend of mine runs a land rover / range rover specialty repair shop. Based on his experience, they are capable of stopping anywhere, anytime, at any cost.

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  #112  
Old December 1st, 2015, 04:46 PM
the rover shop
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shayne young
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jymmiejamz View Post
My problem is he is selling undesirable trucks at a premium price to people who don't know any better. My biggest complaints about the first truck of theirs I saw was that it had a ribbed roof and a carburetted 3.5L V8. IIRC, I said it looked like a polished turd. Looking under the hood I seem to remember seeing most of the engine brackets painted black rather than cadmium plated. It just didn't look like there was much attention to detail.
What's your point about ribbed roof and carb v8...???
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  #113  
Old December 1st, 2015, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by the rover shop View Post
What's your point about ribbed roof and carb v8...???
What Jimmy is saying is its ribbed for her pleasure. Not his.

Can't they import shot discos from the US and use their V8 engine and emissions equipment?
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  #114  
Old December 1st, 2015, 04:52 PM
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I think you will find that then the vehicles wouldn't be compliant for that body...kinda like putting an LS engine mod in one without upgrading brakes etc...and then it would probably have to go through crash testing and evaluations etc... But could definitely see an increase in power being a problem..
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  #115  
Old December 1st, 2015, 05:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jymmiejamz View Post
My problem is he is selling undesirable trucks at a premium price to people who don't know any better. My biggest complaints about the first truck of theirs I saw was that it had a ribbed roof and a carburetted 3.5L V8. IIRC, I said it looked like a polished turd. Looking under the hood I seem to remember seeing most of the engine brackets painted black rather than cadmium plated. It just didn't look like there was much attention to detail.
Dude you do know that they can only import PERIOD CORRECT TRUCKS.

That means ribbed roofs and a 3.5L engine.

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  #116  
Old December 1st, 2015, 06:31 PM
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Dude you do know that they can only import PERIOD CORRECT TRUCKS.

That means ribbed roofs and a 3.5L engine.

I know that, but that's their problem. That's is why I would not recommend someone buy a truck from them. Crappy US importation laws don't make a carb any more appealing.

I think Arkonik would be much better off if they fitted the drivetrain to the vehicles here with something actually useful. A 3.5L is a dog.

------ Follow up post added December 1st, 2015 06:33 PM ------

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Originally Posted by the rover shop View Post
What's your point about ribbed roof and carb v8...???
Lets look at it as individual parts. Would you buy/sell a ribbed roof for the same price as a smooth roof? What about carb 3.5 vs a GEMs 4.6?
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  #117  
Old December 1st, 2015, 06:35 PM
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Actually a pretty good engine...when tuned right, and nothing wrong with ribbed roofs,! I worked for Land Rover when the defenders came out in Australia and we had the twin carbs on them, they ran great, but I guess everything is relative by modern standards they are underpowered, still quicker than a diesel..
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  #118  
Old December 1st, 2015, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Jymmiejamz View Post
I know that, but that's their problem. That's is why I would not recommend someone buy a truck from them. Crappy US importation laws don't make a carb any more appealing.

I think Arkonik would be much better off if they fitted the drivetrain to the vehicles here with something actually useful. A 3.5L is a dog.

------ Follow up post added December 1st, 2015 06:33 PM ------



Lets look at it as individual parts. Would you buy/sell a ribbed roof for the same price as a smooth roof? What about carb 3.5 vs a GEMs 4.6?
I do agree with you...they are hampered by not having an affiliate here - I would love to see them put a POS in there for import and upgrade it when in the US to an LS, TD5, TDCI...whatever customer wants...we discussed this with them...dont worry about that.

Besides that we did drive the 3.5L and as our review points out - it ran like a raped ape.
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  #119  
Old December 1st, 2015, 06:44 PM
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I do agree with you...they are hampered by not having an affiliate here - I would love to see them put a POS in there for import and upgrade it when in the US to an LS, TD5, TDCI...whatever customer wants...we discussed this with them...dont worry about that.
If they did that they would be so much better off and probably have higher customer satisfaction.

Quote:
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Besides that we did drive the 3.5L and as our review points out - it ran like a raped ape.
I bet it did compared to your diesel 110 and Series!!
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  #120  
Old December 1st, 2015, 06:45 PM
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The point being... Why give Arkonik $100k for a truck with a crappy pre' 1990 engine and a stock chassis when you can import a stock vehicle and have it built with a galvanized chassis and a better engine for the same price locally?
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