Arkonik Operations Review - Page 5 - Defender Source
Defender Source  

Go Back   Defender Source > Non-Technical Discussions > Misc. Chit-Chat


Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #81  
Old December 1st, 2015, 01:41 PM
Jonesy's Avatar
Jonesy
Status: Offline
Craig
87 D110 (Ruby)
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Leesburg, VA
Posts: 4,447
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
There is more than one country in North America......
Crap I forget you Canuks so easily
__________________
"The difference between stupidity and genius, is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #82  
Old December 1st, 2015, 01:43 PM
ECR's Avatar
ECR
Status: Offline
East Coast Rover Co.
Just Defenders, nothing else.
D-90 Source Vendor
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Rockland, ME, USA
Posts: 4,614
Quote:
Originally Posted by d90boy View Post
mike may be a pain in the ass to some people
I'm only a pain in the ass to certain salesman (you) and cry babies who don't like it when I don't get back to them on their time frame andů OK there are lots of people.
__________________
Email:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I do not check PMs. Call or email if you need something.

ECR is not a parts source. We are not in the mail order business.
Reply With Quote
  #83  
Old December 1st, 2015, 01:44 PM
Red90's Avatar
Red90
Status: Online
John B.
1991 Defender 90, 200TDI
Site Team
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Calgary
Posts: 9,249
Registry
I know it states up in this thread that they are making $60 to 70k trucks or something like that, which is reasonable.

But in other threads people ARE talking about their trucks being sold for $100k+. That is and was the big beef on the other thread. It was not that the builds were crap, but that they were not worth that level of cost. So what is the truth in how much they are selling the trucks for?
__________________
Pissing people off on the "net" since 1983.

Land Rover. Turning owners into mechanics since 1948.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #84  
Old December 1st, 2015, 01:46 PM
Jonesy's Avatar
Jonesy
Status: Offline
Craig
87 D110 (Ruby)
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Leesburg, VA
Posts: 4,447
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECR View Post
Again, I don't think it is a good, or fair, comparison (unless they get into the price ranges we do). So if they are doing $150K and up trucks, then it should be perfect, not leak and should be fully galvanized (frame, bulkhead, doors, T supports, brackets, etc.). But if they are doing trucks that run $60K then they can't get there (IMO). I'm sure there is a market for those kinds of trucks, but you can't get perfection at that price point unless you do all the work yourself and do not bill for your time. I think they should be judged for what they are. Not against some standard. It is like used Defenders. I suck at selling them because I point out all the flaws to people and then they think it is a "bad" truck. That really isn't the case. It is just old and a Defender, that doesn't make it a bad truck, in fact it might have been a great truck, just not perfect. I'm not defending this UK shop. I doubt I have ever seen any of their work, but just like with everything else some people don't want or can't afford something fully restored (restored to my standards). Some people just want something nice. My personal Defender is a POS. I love it though. Post pictures of their work. Let customers be the judge. It isn't fair to compare 2 things with different prices and different build philosophies side by side.
Agreed but remember they CAN NOT do Galvy chassis or bombing engines like LS or TD5 or anything. Comparing apples to apples is the right thing to do.

Also I think the fact that they are being sold here for the money he is getting, then in some cases resold for more ... Says a lot
__________________
"The difference between stupidity and genius, is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
Reply With Quote
  #85  
Old December 1st, 2015, 01:46 PM
Red90's Avatar
Red90
Status: Online
John B.
1991 Defender 90, 200TDI
Site Team
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Calgary
Posts: 9,249
Registry
Also, what amount of labour is really going into the vehicles? Andy stated 4000 hours, which is ridiculous and he refused to correct this number.
__________________
Pissing people off on the "net" since 1983.

Land Rover. Turning owners into mechanics since 1948.
Reply With Quote
  #86  
Old December 1st, 2015, 01:54 PM
ECR's Avatar
ECR
Status: Offline
East Coast Rover Co.
Just Defenders, nothing else.
D-90 Source Vendor
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Rockland, ME, USA
Posts: 4,614
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
Also, what amount of labour is really going into the vehicles? Andy stated 4000 hours, which is ridiculous and he refused to correct this number.
I can't comment on what they do but here are some numbers:

We have 4 guys on the floor (including our painter). They get 2 weeks off a year and some other vacation time. So lets call it 49 weeks a year they work.
49 weeks at 40 hours a week is 1960 hours a year per guy.
x 4 guys is 7840 hours in a year we can put towards a project.

So if we put 4000 hours into each build we would complete less than 2 a year.

If you run back through our Facebook page for 2015 I think you will see that is a little off base for all the trucks that came and went so far this year.
__________________
Email:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I do not check PMs. Call or email if you need something.

ECR is not a parts source. We are not in the mail order business.
Reply With Quote
  #87  
Old December 1st, 2015, 01:56 PM
down_shift's Avatar
down_shift
Status: Offline
Russell
94' D90 ST & 06' LR3
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Leesburg, VA
Posts: 4,118
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
I know it states up in this thread that they are making $60 to 70k trucks or something like that, which is reasonable. But in other threads people ARE talking about their trucks being sold for $100k+. That is and was the big beef on the other thread. It was not that the builds were crap, but that they were not worth that level of cost. So what is the truth in how much they are selling the trucks for?
Asking $130k. But no worries with a 100% satisfaction rate.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	image-155192450.jpg
Views:	63
Size:	231.0 KB
ID:	136090   Click image for larger version

Name:	image-2898494480.jpg
Views:	53
Size:	134.2 KB
ID:	136091  

Click image for larger version

Name:	image-3784615932.jpg
Views:	50
Size:	148.0 KB
ID:	136092   Click image for larger version

Name:	image-2589135815.jpg
Views:	54
Size:	136.6 KB
ID:	136094  

Click image for larger version

Name:	image-3143309740.jpg
Views:	49
Size:	104.1 KB
ID:	136095  
Reply With Quote
  #88  
Old December 1st, 2015, 02:00 PM
ECR's Avatar
ECR
Status: Offline
East Coast Rover Co.
Just Defenders, nothing else.
D-90 Source Vendor
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Rockland, ME, USA
Posts: 4,614
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonesy View Post
Agreed but remember they CAN NOT do Galvy chassis or bombing engines like LS or TD5 or anything. Comparing apples to apples is the right thing to do.
People spend $70K on a non-NAS 110 without a galvanized frame?

If that is the case, more power to these guys. I tip my hat to them. They truly have found a market full of (edit).

------ Follow up post added December 1st, 2015 02:09 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by down_shift View Post
Asking $130k. But no worries with a 100% satisfaction rate.
Holy Balls!
$130K on a non-NAS and it isn't galvanized.

My prices just went way up.
__________________
Email:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I do not check PMs. Call or email if you need something.

ECR is not a parts source. We are not in the mail order business.
Reply With Quote
  #89  
Old December 1st, 2015, 02:10 PM
d90boy's Avatar
d90boy
Status: Offline
keith humphreys
aka: Mr Fancy Pants
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 3,228
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECR View Post
I'm only a pain in the ass to certain salesman (you) and cry babies who don't like it when I don't get back to them on their time frame andů OK there are lots of people.
i get it believe me i do. i have done lots of growing over the years and have realized many things.
Reply With Quote
  #90  
Old December 1st, 2015, 02:10 PM
CDN38's Avatar
CDN38
Status: Offline
Scott Pelly
2000 110 TD5
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: North Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 954
Registry
Well, I'm sure we all know the famous PT Barnum quote....
Reply With Quote
  #91  
Old December 1st, 2015, 02:11 PM
ECR's Avatar
ECR
Status: Offline
East Coast Rover Co.
Just Defenders, nothing else.
D-90 Source Vendor
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Rockland, ME, USA
Posts: 4,614
Quote:
Originally Posted by d90boy View Post
i get it believe me i do. i have done lots of growing over the years and have realized many things.
I have been nice lately.

OK, enough thread hi-jack. I am going back to work and leaving you fellows to it.
__________________
Email:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I do not check PMs. Call or email if you need something.

ECR is not a parts source. We are not in the mail order business.
Reply With Quote
  #92  
Old December 1st, 2015, 02:13 PM
the rover shop
Status: Offline
shayne young
89,93 & 95 camel trophy 110s 06 130
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: ft lauderdale florida
Posts: 5,225
Quote:
Originally Posted by d90boy View Post
i get it believe me i do. i have done lots of growing over the years and have realized many things.
Good god you two...get a room.... .
Brings a tear to my eye.....lol..
Reply With Quote
  #93  
Old December 1st, 2015, 02:14 PM
leastonce's Avatar
leastonce
Status: Offline
Jason England
D-90 White 95 SW #65
Site Team
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: NYC
Posts: 6,078
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECR View Post
My personal Defender is a POS. I love it though.
yep x2
__________________
Quote:
Soapy water / KY jelly, etc. is is basically a must. Yes, good idea to remove trim panels - only takes 5 more minutes to do so.
Car Camping Collective founding member and Chief Executive Officer
Cat Camping Collective founding member and Chief Executive Officer
Reply With Quote
  #94  
Old December 1st, 2015, 02:14 PM
Jonesy's Avatar
Jonesy
Status: Offline
Craig
87 D110 (Ruby)
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Leesburg, VA
Posts: 4,447
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
Also, what amount of labour is really going into the vehicles? Andy stated 4000 hours, which is ridiculous and he refused to correct this number.
That's a pointless exercise....

Here is some math:

30 people @ 40hrs per week = 1,200 man hours a week

So if he works on one truck for 5 weeks even with crazy rounding errors then I could say that 4,000 hrs isn't ridiculous from a fully loaded cost perspective. See.

Now whether or not you personally could do the EXACT SAME quality or better in less time is neither here nor there...doesn't matter really. Would love to see it though.
__________________
"The difference between stupidity and genius, is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
Reply With Quote
  #95  
Old December 1st, 2015, 02:24 PM
ECR's Avatar
ECR
Status: Offline
East Coast Rover Co.
Just Defenders, nothing else.
D-90 Source Vendor
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Rockland, ME, USA
Posts: 4,614
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonesy View Post
Now whether or not you personally could do the EXACT SAME quality or better in less time is neither here nor there...doesn't matter really. Would love to see it though.
I can do better.

At 4000 hours that means that I can put my entire shop on just one truck (one truck!) for over 6 months straight. I couldn't even imagine how cool of a truck we could turn out if we had 6 whole months solid to work on it. That would be insane… and kinda fun.
__________________
Email:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I do not check PMs. Call or email if you need something.

ECR is not a parts source. We are not in the mail order business.
Reply With Quote
  #96  
Old December 1st, 2015, 02:24 PM
down_shift's Avatar
down_shift
Status: Offline
Russell
94' D90 ST & 06' LR3
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Leesburg, VA
Posts: 4,118
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECR View Post
They truly have found a market full of (edit).
Arkonik - Land Rovers, Range Rovers, 4x4 Vehicles for Sale
Here is a list of those so called (edit)s. Just click on the pins.
Mike, pull your website out of the early 90s and increase your margin by 25%. Marking sells to those (edit)s.
Reply With Quote
  #97  
Old December 1st, 2015, 02:26 PM
mongosd2's Avatar
mongosd2
Status: Offline
Frank Rafka
01 D2 96 D1 83 110
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Tucson
Posts: 861
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonesy View Post
That's a pointless exercise....

Here is some math:

30 people @ 40hrs per week = 1,200 man hours a week

So if he works on one truck for 5 weeks even with crazy rounding errors then I could say that 4,000 hrs isn't ridiculous from a fully loaded cost perspective. See.

Now whether or not you personally could do the EXACT SAME quality or better in less time is neither here nor there...doesn't matter really. Would love to see it though.
And that truck better be perfectů

it's insane to think you can run a business having all 30 your employee's work on one truck at a time, or think that you could keep 30 guy's busy, what, does each guy get a bolt

Don't argue what you have no idea about, it reinforces the "bought and paid for" write up (which it seems wasn't the idea behind this whole dog and pony show)
Reply With Quote
  #98  
Old December 1st, 2015, 02:30 PM
ECR's Avatar
ECR
Status: Offline
East Coast Rover Co.
Just Defenders, nothing else.
D-90 Source Vendor
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Rockland, ME, USA
Posts: 4,614
Quote:
Originally Posted by down_shift View Post
Mike, pull your website out of the early 90s and increase your margin by 25%. Marking sells to those (edit)s.
Yes, this has been a bit of an eye opener.
__________________
Email:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I do not check PMs. Call or email if you need something.

ECR is not a parts source. We are not in the mail order business.
Reply With Quote
  #99  
Old December 1st, 2015, 02:36 PM
JimC's Avatar
JimC
Status: Offline
Jim Cheney
NAS 110 #145
Site Team
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Stuttgart, Germany
Posts: 7,154
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECR View Post
My prices just went way up.
One request, please do my truck before you jack your rates More numbers: I'm an untrained amateur who does everything methodically and I unashamedly learn as I go. I put 200 hours into rebuilding the 90 on a new chassis with engine swap, and about 500 hours tearing apart my 110 and totally redoing it. It's admittedly tens of hours from being done, but 4000 hours is a positively enormous amount of time.
__________________
Jim Cheney

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #100  
Old December 1st, 2015, 02:36 PM
Jymmiejamz's Avatar
Jymmiejamz
Status: Offline
Jimmy
1995 D90 SW #365
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 3,468
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonesy View Post
Agreed but remember they CAN NOT do Galvy chassis or bombing engines like LS or TD5 or anything. Comparing apples to apples is the right thing to do.
This is part of my problem with them. Even if you get one of their full rebuilds and the build quality is top notch, you still get a shitty 3.5L V8 with a carb or a NA diesel.
__________________
Car Camping Collective founding member and Treasurer
Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Defender Source > Non-Technical Discussions > Misc. Chit-Chat

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Ranger Special Operations Vehicle brian.stafford Misc. Chit-Chat 37 August 29th, 2014 09:43 PM
New No Limit Expedition Gear Review JPBrown The Vendors Loft 2 June 2nd, 2011 10:58 AM
Tom Wood Custom Drive Shaft review/report Roving Beetle Misc. Chit-Chat 1 May 12th, 2010 01:11 PM
Review of Land Rover test systems robisonservice Defender Technical Discussions 5 August 3rd, 2006 05:29 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:56 PM.


Copyright