Are these people crazy? $145k?! - Page 5 - Defender Source
Defender Source  

Go Back   Defender Source > Non-Technical Discussions > Misc. Chit-Chat


Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #81  
Old May 9th, 2015, 07:20 PM
cbfritz_03
Status: Offline
Carmen
none
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: TX
Posts: 1,520
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rugbier View Post
Hope that was not a question but more a confirmation Shayne

We all know WHY you are the #1 ASSHOLE

😀
whatever, no he's not...
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #82  
Old May 9th, 2015, 07:49 PM
Jonesy's Avatar
Jonesy
Status: Offline
Craig
87 D110 (Ruby)
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Leesburg, VA
Posts: 4,447
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbfritz_03 View Post
whatever, no he's not...
Oh do tell.... Popcorn is popping
__________________
"The difference between stupidity and genius, is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
Reply With Quote
  #83  
Old May 9th, 2015, 08:18 PM
Rocky's Avatar
Rocky
Status: Offline
Chris
72 + D1 drivetrain
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Colonies Aka Boston
Posts: 8,795
If someone spends $145k on a Defender, ours go up in value
__________________
A friend of mine runs a land rover / range rover specialty repair shop. Based on his experience, they are capable of stopping anywhere, anytime, at any cost.

I don't know about the brakes, only their unreliability.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #84  
Old May 9th, 2015, 08:20 PM
Rugbier's Avatar
Rugbier
Status: Offline
Gustavo
110 Tdi - 110 N/A - D3 HSE - RRS SC
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Peoples Republic of Marylandistan
Posts: 5,884
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbfritz_03 View Post
whatever, no he's not...

Don't let Shaynes's charm fool you LOL
__________________
NO SIGNATURE
Reply With Quote
  #85  
Old May 9th, 2015, 08:36 PM
LuisC's Avatar
LuisC
Status: Online
Luis Constantin
98 Disvovery 1 LE
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Austin,Texas USA
Posts: 1,900
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
If someone spends $145k on a Defender, ours go up in value
And keep them out of reach for those of us saving up for one.
Guess I will have to limit myself to the RR and Disco1. No Defender in my stable. Maybe a Series III 109.
__________________
Black Rhino Lives Matter
Reply With Quote
  #86  
Old May 9th, 2015, 09:01 PM
roverguy's Avatar
roverguy
Status: Offline
Robert
1995 RRC
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 1,029
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuisC View Post
And keep them out of reach for those of us saving up for one. Guess I will have to limit myself to the RR and Disco1. No Defender in my stable. Maybe a Series III 109.
Don't worry they'll come back down...
__________________
1965 IIa 88
1995 RRC 25th Anniversary
98 Discovery LE7
2000 DII (SOLD)
Reply With Quote
  #87  
Old May 9th, 2015, 09:51 PM
Bill Larson's Avatar
Bill Larson
Status: Offline
Bill Larson
97 D90 SW
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: AUS
Posts: 6,563
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackie Treehorn View Post
A couple of observations here not even relating to this example in particular.

First of all, I remember one of Bobcat110's "surfcaster" builds that was ongoing for what seemed to be a year. It was much like this (a 3-door 110 that originated from a NAS 90). Occasionally, I'd stop into the shop and though there wasn't a team of scientists toiling over it, something was always going on with it.
It did take an incredible amount of time to build. I believe Copley sold all of those for big money as well.
There will be many opinions regarding how many hours it could/would/should take to build something from the ground up, but I imagine it would take the better part of 1,000-1,200 hours (factoring in all the fuck off time that goes on and including sub-labor etc.). You're looking at roughly $100,000 in labor/shop time cost alone. I'm not saying it's a sound investment at all, but at the end of the day a ground-up build takes a ridiculous commitment (capitol, time, patience). I know there are many who could build a Defender from the axles up in a weekend (I've seen the time lapse videos too), but it's different with a custom-spec build where parts don't directly bolt up and you're adding amenities.

Okay, so now that we've established the cost (not value mind, you but cost) is north of $100,000, lets talk about value. There is a certain group of folks out there that simply don't have the time to embark on a custom build and deal with talking to shops for a year. These are the same folks who buy the new $5MM spec. house rather than build their own dream home. They are the same folks who buy a new Hinckley rather than scour the country for a deal. Why do you think you see newly ordered/delivered Ferraris selling for 25% over invoice from flippers? (they are here NOW and that means something).

(Note, "they" is not this guy, not that there is anything wrong with being "they"). A $145,000 Defender that is truly turn-key represents value to them because their time is measured by the minute and would be wasted scouring the forums for the right deal. Also, these folks have more toys than just Defenders. So, if you have three homes in different areas each with cars/toys and the like, as well as maybe a boat, or two or three, can you start to imagine the amount of time it takes to manage and care for all that shit?

It's hard for most to rationalize because most have one home, one or two cars and Defenders is one of under five hobbies.

To somebody who's free time is limited and precious and earning 7-figures, spending $25, $50, or $100,000 over what most here would consider "good value" for a Defender is actually a bargain. I'm not saying they don't care about money, it's actually the opposite, but they penciled out the math and their time is simply worth more. Again, this person is NOT me, but you've got your head in the sand if you think they don't exist in large numbers.

I always liken Defenders to boats. You could spend $20,000 on a 40' boat and you could spend over a million on a 40' boat....and everything in between.

This particular example is geared to a very narrow audience and there is a 99.8% chance that this truck will be on one of the islands. The season is beginning and the demand for everything on ACK and MV is off the charts again.

(as an aside, the one good thing about the recession years is the fact that getting your needs met on ACK was a heck of a lot easier and cheaper)
Well said...
Reply With Quote
  #88  
Old May 10th, 2015, 04:23 AM
defender1844
Status: Offline
Amit Likhyani
95 D90 Soft Top Estoril Blue 6.2 LS
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 575
I've always assumed that most on this forum already have Defenders and should celebrate when Copley sells one for $140K+. Never understood the backlash against high sales prices. I guess if many here are looking that changes things. I'm going through a full on restoration and despite having a Defender previously I completely underestimated just what was involved in doing a galvanized frame and then painting every body panel off the truck(and galvanizing the bulkhead, cappings, seat base lockers). It's an absurd amount of work but on 20 year old trucks, it's kind of necessary. When you also add a 4.6 with ported and polished heads, Ron Davis Radiator and custom dual exhaust you are looking at a massive undertaking. For those well healed buyers with the funds there is a lot of value in buying a turn key resotred truck as opposed to doing that work. I wish I had instead of going through the process piece by piece.
Reply With Quote
  #89  
Old May 10th, 2015, 07:15 AM
vtlandrover
Status: Offline
Frank
1991 200Tdi 110 Hicap
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Burlington, VT
Posts: 390
I think it's worth mentioning that there isn't a linear relationship between Copley Defenders and Defender values. It's way more nuanced than that. After all, there's always going to be pricey widgets, whether they're boats, booze or Land Rovers - but it's the outliers that we all seem to be focusing on. Think: Pappy.

Since we're talking Land Rovers, though, consider Jackie's point: the first of the four Orvis 109"s sold around $65k. The second north of $100k. The third north of $125k. In other words, they doubled in two years. They all took Lanny a hell of a lot of time to build. They all looked essentially the same. But the prices shot up because, as Jackie points out, the recipe was there: a dreamer with a longing for something different + impatience + deep pockets (+ some crafty marketing through a brand associated with adventure) = "value." But, generally, 109" prices didn't change one iota.

Nor were our Series prices driven by British Northwest 25 years ago.

If anyone is to blame for the current prices of Defenders, it would seem to me that it's all of our collective fault. After all, why would the uber-wealthy want to associate with Defenders if it wasn't for its reputation? A reputation built on people actually taking them on adventures, not around mall parking lots. Which is why 110s were actually once relatively affordable.

In 1993, as many know, the 110 was brought in at $39,900 to usher in "Land Rover North America" as a brand. The wealthy bought them then as well. But, within a year, there were several left-overs. More important to my point was the fact that many were traded right back in on LWB Range Rovers. That's because the people that bought them thinking they were buying adventure actually bought a rather large, clunky thing. In 1994, you could pick up a low mileage - well under 10,000 miles NAS 110 - for the high-$20ks all day long. A drop of over 25%. The market spoke.

Yes, between Copley and ECR, we can all point to expensive Defenders. But, at the end of the day, there are only a handful of Defenders that meet the criteria even the super wealthy are willing to pay. The rest of them actually drive the market.
Reply With Quote
  #90  
Old May 10th, 2015, 07:59 AM
drdread's Avatar
drdread
Status: Offline
AL
'94 NAS 90 SW
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Southern NY & North Miami
Posts: 531
Registry
Well put

I remember when I bought my 90 in '94, LR Glen Cove (IIRC) wanted to sell me a 110 for "cheap". At the time I lived in the city, had no kids, had only one dog, and I figured my music instruments could just as easily fit in the back of the 90. Ironically the 110 back then was too much like my parents safari vehicles, and so I passed.
Man, I regret that (kind of...I think having a RRC and a 90 takes care of all my current classic vehicle needs)

Nicely put vtlandrover
__________________
1994 Silver DEFENDER 90 NAS SW
Reply With Quote
  #91  
Old May 10th, 2015, 08:32 AM
Jackie Treehorn's Avatar
Jackie Treehorn
Status: Offline
A
1985 (legitimately)
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 1,984
Registry
Glad you guys picked up on what I was saying.
Maybe Frank said it more succinctly, but he's right....the formula.

What I don't get (and this is off topic) is the prices paid for ratholes and crap restorations mascuerading as complete restorations. The crusty NAS 110s selling for $75,000, the barely road-worthy ROW 110s selling for $20,000. The MRM/Defender Centre stuff, the Strangerover crap. That's another story for another day.
Reply With Quote
  #92  
Old May 10th, 2015, 09:36 AM
chuckc4
Status: Offline
chuck b
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 517
"----" What Jackie said.....

Jackie, what's the saying--a fool is soon parted with his money? I think most of us are in the minority when we get on the ground to look under a car or truck....

Advertising and pop culture will ensure demand is high for the low supply of Defenders/series for a while too. Just this morning, I saw a D110 on these back of an Eastrn Mountain Sports mailer, the front of a series truck in a Kevin's catalog and two shots of a 109 pickup in an Anthropologie catalog.

Zach, no mug necessary--unless you have an old made in USA or Britain one laying around.....
Reply With Quote
  #93  
Old May 10th, 2015, 10:41 AM
the rover shop
Status: Offline
shayne young
89,93 & 95 camel trophy 110s 06 130
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: ft lauderdale florida
Posts: 5,225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rugbier View Post
Hope that was not a question but more a confirmation Shayne

We all know WHY you are the #1 ASSHOLE

😀
It was a rhetorical question with statement undertones often uttered by my mother..so YES, I can be an a-hole..but #1..??.. Sorry, I definitely can't take that monicker ..
Reply With Quote
  #94  
Old May 10th, 2015, 10:53 AM
phoenix37's Avatar
phoenix37
Status: Online
john
97 D90 ST / 1957 S1 109/ 1983 LS110
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Venice, CA/Yarmouth,ME
Posts: 5,792
Registry
Doesnt sound crazy when you look at some of these prices. I should of kept my VW bus!

Collectible Car Market Sees ‘Astounding’ Appreciation | Autoremarketing
Reply With Quote
  #95  
Old May 10th, 2015, 01:33 PM
jason1st
Status: Offline
Jason Crandall
2006 LR3 2012 SC 1983 110
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Atlanta, GA.
Posts: 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by alecbeard View Post
You're missing the point. The price is appropriate. It costs a lot to build. I would charge the same amount. The point is that only the 1% can afford it. The problem is the gap between the rich and the poor. The point is that a Rover and a Bronco was once a sign of normal working class people getting dirty and banged up and now only rich people can do that. It's a work truck, not a museum piece. But I guess there's always a Discovery
snore
Reply With Quote
  #96  
Old May 10th, 2015, 03:52 PM
alecbeard
Status: Offline
Alec Beard
1972 Series III
Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Free Union, VA
Posts: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason1st View Post
snore
No need to be mean. Try to have compassion for those of us who can't afford 3 Rovers.
Reply With Quote
  #97  
Old May 10th, 2015, 05:49 PM
the rover shop
Status: Offline
shayne young
89,93 & 95 camel trophy 110s 06 130
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: ft lauderdale florida
Posts: 5,225
Or pity for those of us who own 11..
Reply With Quote
  #98  
Old May 10th, 2015, 06:03 PM
Stormer's Avatar
Stormer
Status: Offline
JP
2008 RRSC
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Northeast
Posts: 919
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by the rover shop View Post
Or pity for those of us who own 11..
11? Only 11?
__________________
"These are the best traveled nuts on d-90 . . ." ABrooks
Reply With Quote
  #99  
Old May 10th, 2015, 07:42 PM
alecbeard
Status: Offline
Alec Beard
1972 Series III
Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Free Union, VA
Posts: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by the rover shop View Post
Or pity for those of us who own 11..
That's a beautiful truck, btw. The one with the Camel on it. Is there a write up for that or the adventures it's been on?
Reply With Quote
  #100  
Old May 10th, 2015, 08:44 PM
Jonesy's Avatar
Jonesy
Status: Offline
Craig
87 D110 (Ruby)
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Leesburg, VA
Posts: 4,447
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by alecbeard View Post
That's a beautiful truck, btw. The one with the Camel on it. Is there a write up for that or the adventures it's been on?
OMG please don't egg him on...
__________________
"The difference between stupidity and genius, is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Defender Source > Non-Technical Discussions > Misc. Chit-Chat

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
I know plenty of people that need one of these hillstrubl Misc. Chit-Chat 4 May 10th, 2012 12:40 PM
Driveline Vibration Issue - Possible Root Cause (some people are crazy...) pmd Misc. Chit-Chat 2 January 16th, 2009 09:23 AM
Crazy Pic and Story of Recovery Accident priest944 Misc. Chit-Chat 7 March 23rd, 2005 12:19 PM
Blowing wiper/speedo fuse like crazy....help! P1CR Defender Technical Discussions 4 March 11th, 2004 03:23 PM
145k on the v8 mattdh Defender Technical Discussions 16 November 14th, 2003 10:41 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:57 AM.


Copyright