Are Defender frames made out of clay? - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old October 13th, 2006, 12:30 AM
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Are Defender frames made out of clay?

I'll tell you, I have never seen something so big and heavy bend so easy. There in not a straight portion left on my whole frame. I dented it worse tonight just by using a high-lift to straighten a roll bar. I am just venting. They could have made these things half the size and stronger by using something a little thicker that .00012 wall steel!
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  #2  
Old October 13th, 2006, 06:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckon37s
I'll tell you, I have never seen something so big and heavy bend so easy. There in not a straight portion left on my whole frame. I dented it worse tonight just by using a high-lift to straighten a roll bar. I am just venting. They could have made these things half the size and stronger by using something a little thicker that .00012 wall steel!
never under estimate the cloud of smoke that auto execs live in. I'm sure the convo went something like this.

Engr: " we'd like to construct the frame out of .00024 wall steel, this will allow us to make a lighter more compact and stronger frame, however production cost will rise about 5 pounds per unit"
Exec: "thats great! however we are going to go with the thin walled option bc it's cheaper, i'm going to go take my new ferrari to the golf course..."
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  #3  
Old October 13th, 2006, 09:21 AM
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Buck - would it be offensive of me to point out that you might be operating your defender slightly outside of its orginal design parameters? :D
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Old October 13th, 2006, 10:21 AM
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I have to agree with Buck. Tony and I were trying to get a slider off my yellow d90 which had rusted a bit. We were using a bottle jack to try and ease the slide out of the tube but it was not budging. When we removed the jack, there was a clear footprint of the jack in the frame.
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  #5  
Old October 13th, 2006, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisvonc
I have to agree with Buck. Tony and I were trying to get a slider off my yellow d90 which had rusted a bit. We were using a bottle jack to try and ease the slide out of the tube but it was not budging. When we removed the jack, there was a clear footprint of the jack in the frame.
Exact same thing happened to me last night. I couldn't figure out why the slider was not moving and then noticed I had put a big dent in the frame. The other side has a big one too. Its rippled like a piece of fabric all the way down the side. My old truck never did that!

Follow-up Post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimC
Buck - would it be offensive of me to point out that you might be operating your defender slightly outside of its orginal design parameters? :D
How dare you! I take the impact dents pretty well. I have tennis ball sized dents on the bottom of my frame. Its the ones on the side of the frame that seem to form when the wind blows that bug me!
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Made it further than half of the other guys, but the Hammers won.
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  #6  
Old October 13th, 2006, 11:13 AM
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Designa makes frames in up to 5mm steel.

The frames dent but they remain straight and do not bend. I think jacking on a 14 guage frame is a bit excessive.
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  #7  
Old October 13th, 2006, 11:17 AM
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Here's the thing, the whole Land Rover philosophy is to be cheap. Remember, these things were created using a bolt on chassis to keep production costs lower, using left over aluminum instead of new steel from the war, I mean, the original green was what the government gave them from painting airplanes!
I know we're a long way from there, but for as many times as we say "Land Rover is getting away from what they built their company on," we can't forget the bad with the good...


That said, it is awful damn flimsy.
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  #8  
Old October 13th, 2006, 03:52 PM
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"That said, it is awful damn flimsy."

The frame is much more rigid than almost anything else on the market. It just dents easy because it is box section rather than C channel.

The land rover frame (aside from not being galvanized) is among the best design features of the vehicle.
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  #9  
Old October 13th, 2006, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evilfij
"That said, it is awful damn flimsy."

The frame is much more rigid than almost anything else on the market. It just dents easy because it is box section rather than C channel.

The land rover frame (aside from not being galvanized) is among the best design features of the vehicle.
It's cool man. Whatever you have to tell yourself.

edit: Actually, for all I know this could be true, but I am still annoyed.
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Made it further than half of the other guys, but the Hammers won.
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  #10  
Old October 13th, 2006, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBurt
Here's the thing, the whole Land Rover philosophy is to be cheap. Remember, these things were created using a bolt on chassis to keep production costs lower, using left over aluminum instead of new steel from the war, I mean, the original green was what the government gave them from painting airplanes!
I know we're a long way from there, but for as many times as we say "Land Rover is getting away from what they built their company on," we can't forget the bad with the good...


That said, it is awful damn flimsy.

They used aluminum because it was avalilable, steel was not because it was being used for reconstruction (of London) and I think bolt on chassis was pretty much the way autos were built then.

A box beam is stronger on edge and less strong on its side, like a 2X4. Who's is strongest? I don't have a clue.
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  #11  
Old October 13th, 2006, 08:50 PM
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You should have probally gotten a Jeep
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  #12  
Old October 13th, 2006, 11:42 PM
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Originally Posted by rover4x4
You should have probally gotten a Jeep
Wow, and you should have probally gotten more than a third grade education.

Sorry dude, I tried, but I just couldn't let that one go.
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  #13  
Old October 14th, 2006, 05:53 PM
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How do the after market galv frames compare to the originals. Are they made of thicker material?
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  #14  
Old October 15th, 2006, 02:55 PM
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Hmmm, I guess that the thin metal explains why they went with such freakin tall side panels on the framerails. I had always wondered why the frames were a few inches taller on the sides than most other trucks I'd worked on, compared to my CJ-7 the Defender frame is almost double the height. I wish I still had those formulas that 4WD printed a few years ago for calculating torsional strength of frames to see how the D-90 ones compare.

-Hans
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  #15  
Old October 16th, 2006, 11:22 AM
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Look a jeep or anything else at the time was made of stamped C-section frame rails, usually with rivited on cross members. Rover did not have the money/materials to make such frame so they made labor intensive box section frames made of 4 pieces with welded on cross members. Eventually, around the time of the SIII, they were made from two C-sections welded together but based on the original design.

As a result of the box section there is relatively little flex in a rover frame. They are also quite strong, rarely crack (unlike say a scout frame), and I think are a very good design.

The downside, as you have experienced, is that the steel is thin and, if hit on a side panel, they dent fairly easily. To protect the bottom you can weld 3in strap across the entire length. Slade's 145 had this done.
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Old October 18th, 2006, 09:03 AM
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I've welded my share of cracks on those riveted C channels on land cruiser frames.
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