Another Take on the Rover Bust - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old March 30th, 2013, 11:40 PM
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Another Take on the Rover Bust

Just thinking, and I'm surprised this hasn't been discussed.

Has anyone considered that the Dr Aaron/Rovers out East/GB4x4 bust has less to do with the legal intricacies of importation laws, 25 year rules, and 300tdi engines and more to do with a larger and simpler international issue: Theft?

The Defender is the most stolen vehicle in the UK, and logic says that those trucks/parts have to be flowing across the pond to the US.

Getting raided by the Feds for selling stolen trucks (or large portions of stolen trucks) seems to be a lot more plausible rational than violating the 25 year rule. It would explain the "customs contradiction" - meaning the trucks were approved at port, but later confiscated.

Plenty of people have imported trucks with 300tdi's, Pumas, new frames and VINs, etc...Some have gotten caught by customs, other not, but nothing on the scale that has resulted in the Feds showing up.

Follow the logic:

UK has huge Defender theft problem > UK investigation reveals mass amounts of trucks & part of trucks being sent to US > UK appeals to US Govt > US Govt, acting on good information increases vigilance and begins close monitoring of importation, eventually taking down a place that moves quite a bit of assembled older Defenders.

Finally, this is a way to get Dr Aaron to tell the Feds where his trucks are coming from so they can let UK authorities track down the chop shops.

[Before all the Dr Aaron apologists dump on me, I'm not implying he knowingly accepted stolen property.]
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  #2  
Old March 31st, 2013, 01:02 AM
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Plausible.

And I very much hope the person involved is innocent of anything and just a victim himself. If he was vin swapping, he is in big trouble.

I suspect many of the over 25yo imported car dealers have been sold "hot" parts without knowing it given the market values here versus in the U.K.

While easier said than done, perhaps the U.K. could set up a system that makes theft unworkable. Official dismantlers, etc. Clearly the importation business just got even tougher.
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  #3  
Old March 31st, 2013, 08:33 AM
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I believe this is whats known as slander. Dr Aaron has not been charged with anything. His inventory was taken as part of an investigation. The investigation is to determine if the trucks are truly age appropriate. A bill of sale and copy of UK v5 are presented as part of the export process. UK police are quite active @ the ports as are US Customs. I have had US Customs open a container in Liverpool before it even loaded on a ship. I got a bit annoyed when the wanted to do they same thing again upon arrival.
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  #4  
Old March 31st, 2013, 08:37 AM
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Plausible but I would hope DHS isn't using resources to help the queen solve her problems. She should be policing that at export IMO.

It seems likely to me that a strong competitor convinced their congressman that business is being effected negatively as a result of practices considered unfair.

Seems to me with a little hard evidence a congressman could be easily convinced to reach out and request a basic investigation. And at the end of the day it's probably a win win for everyone other than the shop under investigation.

Clay
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  #5  
Old March 31st, 2013, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Douglas View Post
I believe this is whats known as slander. Dr Aaron has not been charged with anything. His inventory was taken as part of an investigation. The investigation is to determine if the trucks are truly age appropriate. A bill of sale and copy of UK v5 are presented as part of the export process. UK police are quite active @ the ports as are US Customs. I have had US Customs open a container in Liverpool before it even loaded on a ship. I got a bit annoyed when the wanted to do they same thing again upon arrival.
Meant no slander to anyone.

I suspect if anything he is a great guy trying to bring rovers in for "the reast of us" and that is a super goal.
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  #6  
Old March 31st, 2013, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by 1of40 View Post
Plausible but I would hope DHS isn't using resources to help the queen solve her problems. She should be policing that at export IMO.

It seems likely to me that a strong competitor convinced their congressman that business is being effected negatively as a result of practices considered unfair.

Seems to me with a little hard evidence a congressman could be easily convinced to reach out and request a basic investigation. And at the end of the day it's probably a win win for everyone other than the shop under investigation.

Clay
All this speculation of a " strong competitor" has a solid foundation, however it's purely speculation. I can say with certainty that the "strong competitor" could care less about other shops. Honestly. That "strong competitor" is dealing with a very select clientele list. Period.
I have no interest in defending the "strong competitor", just stating facts, because the speculation is simply just that.

I think what happened is extremely unfortunate, I've never met the person, but I've just looked at one of his series trucks he sold a few months back. I hope this is all sorted out favorably for him with a quick resolve.
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  #7  
Old March 31st, 2013, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by jcb-memphis View Post

Meant no slander to anyone.

I suspect if anything he is a great guy trying to bring rovers in for "the reast of us" and that is a super goal.
And same to the importers. I think your company in particular is amazing.

Let's put it this way -fake pharmaceuticals from country X are so good you cannot tell they are fake....then a pharmacist putting them in the bottle following all the rules is not the criminal if he provides them to someone unknowingly. Saying this could happen does not slander the pharmacist.

I am staying out of discussions on this going forward as there is so much unknown and so little known.


I apologize if I offended by mistake.
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  #8  
Old March 31st, 2013, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Uncle Douglas View Post
The investigation is to determine if the trucks are truly age appropriate.
That is a pretty declarative statement that has not been borne out by the news reports I've read.

Where did you learn this to make such a statement with the obvious degree of confidence you have?
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  #9  
Old March 31st, 2013, 10:20 AM
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Anyone knowing the rules from the beginning and erring on the side of caution or should I say say erring on the side if legal, really is not bothered or affected by the "soap opera" this has all turned into.
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  #10  
Old March 31st, 2013, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Uncle Douglas View Post
The investigation is to determine if the trucks are truly age appropriate.
Do you know this for fact?
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  #11  
Old March 31st, 2013, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PTSchram View Post
That is a pretty declarative statement that has not been borne out by the news reports I've read.

Where did you learn this to make such a statement with the obvious degree of confidence you have?
From the horses mouth.i think it best to stop the rampant speculation, like this thread.
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  #12  
Old March 31st, 2013, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Uncle Douglas View Post

From the horses mouth
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Old March 31st, 2013, 12:13 PM
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From the horses mouth.i think it best to stop the rampant speculation, like this thread.
this get's my vote for best post of 2013!
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Old March 31st, 2013, 01:26 PM
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From the horses mouth.i think it best to stop the rampant speculation, like this thread.
Josh told you this info then?
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Old March 31st, 2013, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Douglas View Post

From the horses mouth.i think it best to stop the rampant speculation, like this thread.
I agree.

Threads like this only fuel speculations and conspiracy theories.

Time will tell what is going on.
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  #16  
Old March 31st, 2013, 02:31 PM
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I agree.

Threads like this only fuel speculations and conspiracy theories.

Time will tell what is going on.
If people who know the facts keep that information private, threads like this will continue.
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  #17  
Old March 31st, 2013, 02:44 PM
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  #18  
Old March 31st, 2013, 02:53 PM
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This is all wild speculation at this point.

I would imagine that CBP has better things to be doing with their time than trying to track down stolen 25 year old vehicles. That's a domestic UK problem... and I would imagine that the head of the UK Border Agency would rather NOT have to send an e-mail to his counterpart here in the US admitting they can't control what's leaving the country over there. It would basically be admitting incompetence.
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Old March 31st, 2013, 02:57 PM
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This is all wild speculation at this point.

I would imagine that CBP has better things to be doing with their time than trying to track down stolen 25 year old vehicles. That's a domestic UK problem... and I would imagine that the head of the UK Border Agency would rather NOT have to send an e-mail to his counterpart here in the US admitting they can't control what's leaving the country over there. It would basically be admitting incompetence.
Sounds like Mexico asking us why we can't stop our guns flowing south.
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  #20  
Old March 31st, 2013, 02:58 PM
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If people who know the facts keep that information private, threads like this will continue.
It's none of your business. I'm really disappointed with the behavior of some people on this site. Nobody here except Aaron knows what's going on with this and it's really nobody's business but Aaron's.

Stop the speculation.

The same thing can also be said about speculation as to the instigator behind the DHS action. Until we know the real story, talking smack about other vendors who some suspect are involved is wrong.
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