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  #1  
Old August 24th, 2016, 08:49 PM
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Another Puma for sale on Ebay

Land Rover Defender Land Rover Defender 110 Puma Style Galvanized | eBay

This was for sale in Nova Scotia about a year months ago...

Interesting to see the seller hiding where the truck originally came from in Cordoba...check the mud flaps on the bay posting.
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  #2  
Old August 24th, 2016, 08:56 PM
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There are lots of Pumas in the United States, right or wrong. With all due respect, why bring attention to them any more than necessary?

They're all defenders, and I personally enjoy seeing them here. I saw a puma 130 just a couple of days ago in Ga. I took a picture of it, but out of respect, won't publicize it.
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  #3  
Old August 24th, 2016, 09:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelbo View Post
There are lots of Pumas in the United States, right or wrong. With all due respect, why bring attention to them any more than necessary? They're all defenders, and I personally enjoy seeing them here. I saw a puma 130 just a couple of days ago in Ga. I took a picture of it, but out of respect, won't publicize it.
Well said sir!
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  #4  
Old August 24th, 2016, 10:46 PM
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Had people not tried to cheat the system (be it right, or wrong) we wouldn't have had to witness this:

Homeland Security took my 110 - Defender Source

There were a lot of people that had their vehicles taken away for no good reason. Pretty much comes down to the fact that if people only brought in legal trucks, that whole situation wouldn't have happened.

It's people like this trying to cheat the rules and profit from it that don't really care if someone pays a lot of money and then has the truck taken away and crushed... it's their problem, right?

So, we should all just turn a blind eye to illegal activity if we have some sort of a special interest in it, right?
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  #5  
Old August 24th, 2016, 11:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CDN38 View Post
Had people not tried to cheat the system (be it right, or wrong) we wouldn't have had to witness this: Homeland Security took my 110 - Defender Source There were a lot of people that had their vehicles taken away for no good reason. Pretty much comes down to the fact that if people only brought in legal trucks, that whole situation wouldn't have happened. It's people like this trying to cheat the rules and profit from it that don't really care if someone pays a lot of money and then has the truck taken away and crushed... it's their problem, right? So, we should all just turn a blind eye to illegal activity if we have some sort of a special interest in it, right?
No, pretty sure that was over zealous federal agents with limited investigatory skills and lack of supervisor oversight.

VIN swapping is illegal, but seizing a truck because it has boosts and 300tdi is retarded and nitpicking federal law where resources should be focused elsewhere.
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  #6  
Old August 24th, 2016, 11:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Wolf Fabrication View Post
No, pretty sure that was over zealous federal agents with limited investigatory skills and lack of supervisor oversight.

VIN swapping is illegal, but seizing a truck because it has boosts and 300tdi is retarded and nitpicking federal law where resources should be focused elsewhere.
Agreed.

Had some of the shall we say... "questionable" trucks not been on this side of the pond, those over zealous federal agents with limited investigatory skills and lack of supervisor oversight would have been off chasing moonshiners instead of Defender owners.
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  #7  
Old August 25th, 2016, 03:47 AM
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It is annoying when people think the law doesn't apply to them, and blatantly go against it in full view of the public.
Why not publicly talk about it or post photos of them? That seems to be protecting those people in a way, when they already know the risks involved and have rolled the dice already. Hiding those skeletons in the closet hurts the Defender scene for the rest of us.

The feds already got burned by reacting to defender imports, I don't think a couple photos on this forum would equate to an early morning wake up call for that Puma defender in GA. If that was the case... Then we all would be needing to worry about the Feds since, according to the letter of the law, quite a few of them are in a somewhat gray area at the very least, when it comes to engine swapping and all (especially with TD5 engines).
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  #8  
Old August 25th, 2016, 06:41 AM
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^^^ Points taken, and everyone is obviously entitled to their own opinion. I prefer to mind my own business.
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  #9  
Old August 25th, 2016, 08:55 AM
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That truck is no more illegal than everyone else's 300Tdi swapped 110 so I don't understand the ire for or against this thread.
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  #10  
Old August 25th, 2016, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by transientmechanic View Post
That truck is no more illegal than everyone else's 300Tdi swapped 110 so I don't understand the ire for or against this thread.
Yup, the galvy frame implies rebuild. I think everyone wants to go back to splitting hairs on when a truck is no longer substantially what it left the factory as.

Whats the difference if your V8 110 that you did a frame off restoration on has a 300tdi or Puma?

Here is how I see it, you pull it apart to swap the frame, you see the bulkhead is easy to replace than repair, NTO doors would bolt on nice, those fenders could be straighter, so you toss some NTO ones on, the dash is cracked, so you get a full TD5 or puma dash as an upgrade etc.

So where is the line in the sand crossed? Or are we waiting for the tide to come in?
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  #11  
Old August 25th, 2016, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by transientmechanic View Post
That truck is no more illegal than everyone else's 300Tdi swapped 110 so I don't understand the ire for or against this thread.
Thank you.
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  #12  
Old August 25th, 2016, 09:57 AM
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Who cares? they are basically all the same trucks with just a few numbers difference.

The government is turning us against each other!! Admire and move on.
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  #13  
Old August 25th, 2016, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CDN38 View Post
There were a lot of people that had their vehicles taken away for no good reason. Pretty much comes down to the fact that if people only brought in legal trucks, that whole situation wouldn't have happened.
That case had nothing to do with illegal trucks being imported. It had to do with a change in the way that customs was interpreting the definition of 25 years and trying to retroactively enforce their change. You should make sure that you understand the details of the situation.
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  #14  
Old August 25th, 2016, 09:58 AM
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The VIN translates to a 1989 using CalVIN
Lots of folks rebuild using NTO or other parts and at $115K this could be the case but I would want full documentation to be presented to cover my ass if I spent that kind of money.
Without the builder/owner to speak and produce docs and pictures it is a big ???
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  #15  
Old August 25th, 2016, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by transientmechanic View Post
That truck is no more illegal than everyone else's 300Tdi swapped 110 so I don't understand the ire for or against this thread.
Because putting a 300Tdi into a 110 isn't illegal.

The law is stupid. But it's worse that people keep breaking it, and it then results in the stupid government overreaching its powers to confiscate innocent trucks from innocent people -- in the mean time, people are still blatantly breaking same law, and those people who had their trucks taken just have to sit and watch.
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  #16  
Old August 25th, 2016, 10:24 AM
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Are you sure about that?
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  #17  
Old August 25th, 2016, 11:33 AM
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Really...
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  #18  
Old August 25th, 2016, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by transientmechanic View Post
Are you sure about that?
I could be wrong. Really. But from what I understand, the rule is 21 years.

The documents that I've looked at are very vague on engine import, except for the 21 year rule. But maybe someone could point me in the right direction? The rules for importation of a vehicle are fairly straight-forward, spelled out in multiple places from multiple govt. sources. So maybe I'm missing something when it comes to importation of individual engines.
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  #19  
Old August 25th, 2016, 12:22 PM
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It's not so much the importation of the engine, as the installation of it in a road going vehicle.
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  #20  
Old August 25th, 2016, 12:36 PM
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Importation is pretty specific = 21 years.

Quote:
2.3.2 Non-Chassis-Mounted Engine
Anyone may import a non-chassis-mounted light-duty motor vehicle engine which is
currently covered by an EPA certificate or will be covered by an EPA certificate prior to
introduction into commerce. The engine may be imported without a Customs bond required by
EPA or written EPA approval. The engine must be for use in a light-duty vehicle (LDV), a
motorcycle, a light-duty truck (LDT), a medium-duty passenger vehicle (MDPV), or a chassiscertified
heavy-duty vehicle (HDV).
Requirements:
● Importer must file with U.S. Customs, upon entry, an EPA Form 3520-1 declaring code
"W."
Restrictions:
● Mounting an engine in a chassis to "manufacture" a LDV, motorcycle, LDT, MDPV, or
chassis-certified HDV without the proper certificate of conformity from EPA violates the
Clean Air Act;
● Mounting an engine in an existing LDV, motorcycle, LDT, MDPV, or chassis-certified
HDV that is certified violates the Clean Air Act unless the engine replacement is identical
to the engine being replaced;
...the 'manufacture' of a vehicle is what would be in question here. And the fact that it is in quotes may, or may not mean that it can be done by a private individual. Will H. would know!

I read it as you cannot import this under 21 years, and even if it is over 21 years, you cannot use it to create some kind of vehicle that you are going to sell for business/profit. I have not, or do not recognize, any specifics about simply having a 21 year old or older engine, and putting it in your car. However, I'm a hack, and I could be wrong.
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