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  #41  
Old August 25th, 2016, 02:01 PM
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So...the 8 in the vin means...Steering and transmission: Left-hand drive (LHD), 5-speed manual (LT85, LT77, LT77S, R380 or other)"


http://www.defendersource.com/forum/...eferrerid=3742

History - Started as a RHD and then just ripped it open.


does something not add up here???? Or am I missing something??
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  #42  
Old August 25th, 2016, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
Unless it was converted in Canada. If that happened, you could have trouble in the future with customs.
It looks like it was done in Canada. Yes, technically you could run into problems with customs, but way less likely going across that border then coming in through a port. So it would get by while other trucks that have the exact same things done through them get rejected at port on the east coast. it being registered and titled in Canada should dash any questions in a custom's officer's mind because our regulations are similar. If its legal here in Canada and the Canadian paperwork says its 25 years old, then it looks fine for it to come south of the border.

Lets be honest, if you were to import a sketchy car into the USA the canadian border is the best way to go.
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  #43  
Old August 25th, 2016, 02:08 PM
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Looks like it was built at the 4x4 Centre in Vermont. Still not sure what all the fuss is about. Fair market value for that truck is probably 100k - so yes I am jealous that someone supposedly bought it for half that but profit is not a crime.
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  #44  
Old August 25th, 2016, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by transientmechanic View Post
Looks like it was built at the 4x4 Centre in Vermont. Still not sure what all the fuss is about. Fair market value for that truck is probably 100k - so yes I am jealous that someone supposedly bought it for half that but profit is not a crime.
100% agree and would love to have that truck in my garage. In fact I bet my wife would commandeer it as her own.
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  #45  
Old August 25th, 2016, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by javelinadave View Post
100% agree and would love to have that truck in my garage. In fact I bet the wife would commandeer it as her own.
No doubt, same here... I drove on a 2015 around the Land Rover Experience at Solihull for 4 hours. It's definately a "modern" truck compared the the TD5 or 300 TDI. The anti-stall is more advanced than the first generation in the TD5. Quieter, smoother and more comfortable. (still needs more back seat leg room though!) LOL
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  #46  
Old August 25th, 2016, 02:19 PM
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These trucks show up from time to time but as I stated in an earlier reply the VIN is from a 1989 and the eBay ad clearly states
"1985 Land Rover Defender Land Rover Defender 110 Puma Style Galvanized"

I'm all for someone fixing up a restoring a truck but tell people about the work, show documentation and pictures of the work performed.
This truck does appear a little more fishy than most.
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  #47  
Old August 25th, 2016, 02:25 PM
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Looking for WillH to win his latest suit on the issue of replacing engines.

Much rather have a cleaner engine thank you regardless of whether it's a LS or 300tdi than the original powerless 2.5ma
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  #48  
Old August 25th, 2016, 02:48 PM
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Oh, the amount of time I could spend sharing my thoughts and comments in this thread.......,you know, before this all became my day job.
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  #49  
Old August 25th, 2016, 08:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javelinadave View Post
i'm sure there are scores of legal puma truck here in the us via diplomatic imports, kit builds, etc..... Why chastise anybody who has one? Jealousy? Lets all celebrate the vehicles and hope to one day own one or two of them.
אתה לגמרי נכון , קנאה היא הסיפור כאן

------ Follow up post added August 25th, 2016 10:01 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by CDN38 View Post
So we should all celebrate the fact that the truck was bought for about $60,000 Canadian (so about $46,000US) and then illegally imported, and may sell to some unsuspecting sucker for about $100,000. (hopefully that poor unsuspecting sucker doesn't get his truck taken away some day. Is it his fault he was cheated and lied to buy the seller about what he really has bought?)

So, crime does pay. In this case it could be about 50k.

I wonder if everyone should turn a blind eye to the guy that comes back from Columbia with a large bag of "talcum powder". How do we all feel about that guy?

pssst .. it is... C O L O M B I A mi amigo
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  #50  
Old August 26th, 2016, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rugbier View Post
אתה לגמרי נכון , קנאה היא הסיפור כאן ------ Follow up post added August 25th, 2016 10:01 PM ------ pssst .. it is... C O L O M B I A mi amigo
But I like their jackets
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  #51  
Old August 29th, 2016, 05:39 AM
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Do the tail lights look funny on that truck? I think the uppers ones are more NAS spec than ROW/EU spec.
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  #52  
Old August 29th, 2016, 06:41 AM
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What do you guys think these container loads of parts from disassembled tdci trucks that are entering the US are being used for ?

Just opened this thread and read all the assumptions and conjecture. Several "clearly a vin swap" comments.

Rover UK never built a 110 on a galvanized chassis (the South Africans and Aussies got it right). There's your first clue someone other than Solihull built the thing. Many seem to want the tdci look with the higher hood and dash and there are several build threads here where members have built trucks to those specs. The tdci bonnets seem to be highly sought after, why I don't get. They aren't attractive and reduce visibility, but that's my .02.They do cost less than the original type based on a call to Zack a while back, so maybe you guys need bonnets and are just being cheap ?

As far as the mud flaps go,(because those comments seemed especially inane) attaching bits and decals from around the world adds to the panache of these trucks. Jonesy has a spare tire cover from Africa, pretty sure his truck has never been there. Shayne has Australia stickers all over his but the truck has never been there.....

The ebay seller was in NJ not the Maritime Provinces. The assumption/statement that the mud flaps and decals were photo shopped out is far less likely than the likely hood that one owners personal touches were removed to suit the new owners taste.The truck appears to be a combination of an owner build and work done by the 4x4 Center in Vermont.https://www.facebook.com/The-4x4-Cen...73835/?fref=nf
The truck is in this forums registry http://www.defendersource.com/forum/...eferrerid=3742 Zack commented in the registry that he watched it being built. Obviously the truck has been back and forth over the border several times. You guys are attacking a truck build known here.

I can assure you that when you are buying parts from the UK, paying to have them delivered to a container stuffer/freight forwarder, paying them to carefully load the container, then ship the container over and build a vehicle with those bits, your cost is astronomically higher than simply going out and buying a new one. That said the $50k profit comments are again, uninformed and without merit. You would be hard pressed to build that truck for $100k if you were paying someone to assemble it from parts purchased in the UK and shipped to the US. I couldn't build a customer that truck for 100k, just saying.

I know nothing about this rig, but do appreciate the pictures and what someone has built, just think some of you have made quantum leaps in the assumption dept. This thread is an excellent example of why many owners choose not to list vehicles for sale on this forum.
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  #53  
Old August 29th, 2016, 08:25 AM
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Top quality post by Uncle Douglas.
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  #54  
Old August 29th, 2016, 08:33 AM
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Spot on Doug...
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  #55  
Old August 29th, 2016, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Douglas View Post
What do you guys think these container loads of parts from disassembled tdci trucks that are entering the US are being used for ?

Just opened this thread and read all the assumptions and conjecture. Several "clearly a vin swap" comments.

Rover UK never built a 110 on a galvanized chassis (the South Africans and Aussies got it right). There's your first clue someone other than Solihull built the thing. Many seem to want the tdci look with the higher hood and dash and there are several build threads here where members have built trucks to those specs. The tdci bonnets seem to be highly sought after, why I don't get. They aren't attractive and reduce visibility, but that's my .02.They do cost less than the original type based on a call to Zack a while back, so maybe you guys need bonnets and are just being cheap ?

As far as the mud flaps go,(because those comments seemed especially inane) attaching bits and decals from around the world adds to the panache of these trucks. Jonesy has a spare tire cover from Africa, pretty sure his truck has never been there. Shayne has Australia stickers all over his but the truck has never been there.....

The ebay seller was in NJ not the Maritime Provinces. The assumption/statement that the mud flaps and decals were photo shopped out is far less likely than the likely hood that one owners personal touches were removed to suit the new owners taste.The truck appears to be a combination of an owner build and work done by the 4x4 Center in Vermont.https://www.facebook.com/The-4x4-Cen...73835/?fref=nf
The truck is in this forums registry http://www.defendersource.com/forum/...eferrerid=3742 Zack commented in the registry that he watched it being built. Obviously the truck has been back and forth over the border several times. You guys are attacking a truck build known here.

I can assure you that when you are buying parts from the UK, paying to have them delivered to a container stuffer/freight forwarder, paying them to carefully load the container, then ship the container over and build a vehicle with those bits, your cost is astronomically higher than simply going out and buying a new one. That said the $50k profit comments are again, uninformed and without merit. You would be hard pressed to build that truck for $100k if you were paying someone to assemble it from parts purchased in the UK and shipped to the US. I couldn't build a customer that truck for 100k, just saying.

I know nothing about this rig, but do appreciate the pictures and what someone has built, just think some of you have made quantum leaps in the assumption dept. This thread is an excellent example of why many owners choose not to list vehicles for sale on this forum.
Doug,

"Rover UK never built a 110 on a galvanized chassis (the South Africans and Aussies got it right). There's your first clue someone other than Solihull built the thing."

Absolutely. 4 Puma trucks I have seen come through Vancouver at different times (right off the boat from Tacoma and then straight up through Vancouver) have all had galv chassis (installed in the UK before shipping)

"The ebay seller was in NJ not the Maritime Provinces"
Correct. The Maritime seller sold the vehicle last year. In the 2 photos I posted you can make out the NS tags.(photo has a may 2015 date stamp)

The truck had been advertised for sale for some time on Autotrader.ca for $55,000 CAD I received an email with a link to the ad in September 2015. (that's a fact, not conjecture.I still have a link to the ad, which is now gone, but in the body of the email I received with the link is reference to that current listed price was $55,000 CAD. That's $42,000 US)

Now the truck now being offered by the NJ owner that brought it into the US for $112,000 US.... correct, $50k profit is not accurate, it's more.

"Just opened this thread and read all the assumptions and conjecture. Several "clearly a vin swap" comments. "

Please explain to me how a truck that in a build thread shows pictures and clearly states that it started from a 1988 RHD, yet registered with a VIN from a 1988 LHD
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  #56  
Old August 31st, 2016, 08:44 AM
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Robert Davis
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In general terms not necessarily directly related to this specific vehicle or any individual who posted here...

Let's get the facts straight, the Vin swap is NOT illegal in UK.
There is a certification process that has to followed that is documented with DVLA (Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency) and allowed by UK law.

The situation is completely transparent with the UK authorities, NOT a back room clandestine illegal swap process.
You are allowed to restore a 110 and upgrade to a galvanized chassis, newer engine, and so on in UK if you follow the process and pass the required inspections made by DVLA government officials.

The situation is that US Customs are seizing these vehicles not because they have illegal ID swaps or are stolen, but because they no longer meet the exact specifications the 83 - 91 vehicles left the factory with. That's it, no mystery or underhanded dealings.

None of the 110 vehicles in 1983 left the UK factory with galvanized chassis puma common rail diesel or a TDI, so under the current interpretations of what is original or not original, there "restored" vehicles are not allowed into USA because they no longer match the "stock" factory specifications for the given year of manufacture.

Now the work that is going on in UK is not unlike someone who buys a wreck of a 1932 Ford Coupe in the states and puts a tubular chassis under it with a small block chevy engine, and so on. The difference is that in UK it is more controlled with required inspections in order to pass MOT and purchase road tax and the other difference is that the Ford is already in the country, but a restored 110 has to be imported... and in order to end up in your driveway, it must be legally imported, and in order to be legally imported, it must pass a US Customs inspection, and in order to pass a US Customs inspection it now must be original, matching the decoding of the Vin.

Using the 1932 Ford Coupe example you can also import parts and build what you want how you want it.

I don't understand all the hub bub, but have a tendency not to get over involved in other peoples build or for sale personal business.
Why?
Because I don't care who pays how much for what and then sells something for how much when and where.
It's all relative.
Just don't care... would rather be focused on practical innovation and helping my fellow members out then keeping track of what someone else is doing.
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  #57  
Old August 31st, 2016, 09:53 AM
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Just don't care...
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  #58  
Old August 31st, 2016, 02:10 PM
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There sure are a lot of these "what's legal" threads. I actually appreciate it very much some people point out things that may be illegal in our community because it has helped me gain a deeper respect for the laws that are intended to protect our safety, health, and the environment. It's true that there are tons of illegally imported trucks and the vast majority of engine conversions in the Land Rover community are illegal at least on a Federal level. And we have seen what happens when the Feds try to enforce the laws so obviously many of us don't understand why others blatantly defy the law when the risks are so high. Maybe they're rebels, rednecks, or have so much money they don't care (probably all of the above).

I think the important thing is to figure out for yourself what you're comfortable with and go about your own business in the best way you can. I took the time to research what's legal and what's not when planning my own project and along the way I decided to try to make it the most legal it can possibly be, such as making sure the existing catalytic converters were non-functioning (verified by emissions testing) so they could be legally removed, and installing all emissions equipment the new engine came with (to retain the EPA certified configuration) including the secondary air injection system and rear oxygen sensors, going as far as making sure it can even be certified by CARB. I think trying you're hardest to follow the rules is the best approach and then if you did end up doing something wrong you at least have plausible deniability.
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  #59  
Old August 31st, 2016, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chip View Post
There sure are a lot of these "what's legal" threads. I actually appreciate it very much some people point out things that may be illegal in our community because it has helped me gain a deeper respect for the laws that are intended to protect our safety, health, and the environment. It's true that there are tons of illegally imported trucks and the vast majority of engine conversions in the Land Rover community are illegal at least on a Federal level. And we have seen what happens when the Feds try to enforce the laws so obviously many of us don't understand why others blatantly defy the law when the risks are so high. Maybe they're rebels, rednecks, or have so much money they don't care (probably all of the above).

I think the important thing is to figure out for yourself what you're comfortable with and go about your own business in the best way you can. I took the time to research what's legal and what's not when planning my own project and along the way I decided to try to make it the most legal it can possibly be, such as making sure the existing catalytic converters were non-functioning (verified by emissions testing) so they could be legally removed, and installing all emissions equipment the new engine came with (to retain the EPA certified configuration) including the secondary air injection system and rear oxygen sensors, going as far as making sure it can even be certified by CARB. I think trying you're hardest to follow the rules is the best approach and then if you did end up doing something wrong you at least have plausible deniability.
If I had my way it would be illegal to have white lettering facing out on your tires. Your truck might need to be crushed.
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  #60  
Old August 31st, 2016, 02:35 PM
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If I had my way I'd be reading a thread right now on why Barry traded his LR4 for a Taco. Nothing against Tacos, but that's like going from Hollywood to Harlem. I'm sure it's nice, but would like to know your thoughts on that trade so far.
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