A Question for our Canadian Members - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old November 5th, 2009, 05:17 AM
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Julian Kotting
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A Question for our Canadian Members

I have been approached by a Land Rover main dealer in Canada to build 2xtdci 15yr old 'new' trucks. How much would they be able to sell them for? The price he is quoting for us to build them is too low, we cant purchase/strip/rebuild on a galv chassis/and ship for what they want and make a profit, so what would aa as New 'Puma' Defender be worth in Canada?
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  #2  
Old November 5th, 2009, 11:50 AM
andyrad
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If would pay up to the $50K CDN mark for one re-built from the ground up, as new. With that in mind we cannot get a 'new' Defender of any sort in Canada, so 'as new' is the best we can do. Some may pay more and some may pay less. If I were you I would let the dealersip worry about their price and just add at least $10,000 to your build price. That way if the dealership can't sell them, GOOD. They deserve it anyway. Stinkin stealerships.
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  #3  
Old November 5th, 2009, 12:21 PM
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I doubt there is much market, really. At $50k, you could probably sell them, but there is no way for you to build and import one for that price, obviously.
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  #4  
Old November 5th, 2009, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by globallandrovers
I have been approached by a Land Rover main dealer in Canada to build 2xtdci 15yr old 'new' trucks. How much would they be able to sell them for? The price he is quoting for us to build them is too low, we cant purchase/strip/rebuild on a galv chassis/and ship for what they want and make a profit, so what would aa as New 'Puma' Defender be worth in Canada?
I don't wish to get into the "what's legal" debate or a moral debate on the unfairness of NA safety standards but you should call 1-800-333-0371 and talk to Transport Canada. The CDN government would likely seize them on the docks and likely charge the importer under the Motor Vehicle Safety Act. Transport Canada has a very different interpretation of what a 'new' vehicle is than the NHTSA, or, rather, the CDN government will enforce their interpretation as the US govt is too busy sipping coffee. A new truck on an old VIN in Canada is a new truck. A new truck with an old bulkhead in Canada is a new truck. A new truck with an old chassis in Canada is a new truck, and so on.
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  #5  
Old November 5th, 2009, 03:43 PM
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Well, the only answer really is that it would be worth what someone would be willing to pay, but can you find that buyer willing to pay so high a price as to make it worth your time, and for you and the dealer to make a profit? Unless you find the buyer first, and agree the price (in which case why bother with the dealer), it does not make sense to do this. For such a small - incredibly small - number of potential buyers, it is hard to speak of a "market" value for such a vehicle. You can get it in legally, no problem there, Transport Canada will accept a legal V5 that matches the VIN on the chassis etc. But the dealer might have a hard time indeed selling it for the price needed to make the whole exercise make sense.

There was a well-known LR rebuilder in the UK - they prepared a 110 for a dealer salesman (in fact I wonder if it is the same guy) in Canada exactly in this way, basically an as new 110 but rebuilt on a 15-yr V5 all legal according to both UK and Canadian law. But in Canada it has to be sold as a 15 yr old car, and you have to find that rare buyer who knows what it is and so on. I think what the UK company (PM me for the name if interested) discovered is that indeed there is no market really, at least not a reliable one. LR enthusiasts who would know what it is and what a great opportunity it would be, generally do not have that kind of cash to put in a new vehicle. Those people who do, would rather buy a new Lexus GX or maybe even a 2-3 yr old Range Rover, and get more luxury add-ons etc. So it is a rare, very rare, buyer in Canada that can drop 50K on a "new" 110, even if it is all square on paper and no problem with registration etc. The LR enthusiast crowd who would love to get a hold of 110s are generally able to only pay half that, and for that money the economics don't pan out for dealers. As for that 110 sent to Canada, it sat for sale with the dealer in Toronto for some time, not selling, but I think it must have eventually sold. But in talking with the company that did the rebuild and export in the UK, it was not a happy experience and I don't think they'd soon do another one for a dealer on the presumption that it would sell fast and for a big profit.

Cheers,
John
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  #6  
Old November 5th, 2009, 04:14 PM
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I think you're approaching it wrong. Its the dealers job to figure out what they can sell for, and its only your task to figure out how much you need to make a build the trucks and make a profit. Any speculation you get here is pretty much worthless as far as making a business decision.
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  #7  
Old November 5th, 2009, 04:44 PM
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I was going to charge 32,000.00
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  #8  
Old November 5th, 2009, 04:52 PM
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Who takes the import risk?
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  #9  
Old November 5th, 2009, 05:08 PM
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Jamie Austin
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If it's a "main dealer", franchised LR dealer.... i'd be contacting LR head office and telling them what a bunch of crooks they are!
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  #10  
Old November 5th, 2009, 05:12 PM
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Julian Kotting
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimC
Who takes the import risk?
They do, once it leaves our yard its not our problem. This will be made clear before we even begin the build.

Follow-up Post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by diesel_jim
If it's a "main dealer", franchised LR dealer.... i'd be contacting LR head office and telling them what a bunch of crooks they are!
No bloody likely, I wanna make a few quid, b4 they stop building the defender!
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  #11  
Old November 5th, 2009, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by globallandrovers
I was going to charge 32,000.00
Including delivery?

If that is all up, it will be around $65000 CAD in the end expense to them after duty, taxes, etc.... Add on a profit for the dealer and their need to give a full warranty and I would guess it is too expensive to sell. But, hey, if they want to pay you, then go for it...
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  #12  
Old November 5th, 2009, 06:18 PM
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The cost to the dealer in dollars would be $54,432, plus 6.5% duty brings it to $57,970. That is using the 1.70 exchange rate. Then add GST of $2898 which they get back anyway and their grand total without shipping is just about $61,000. Now add the markup and no body would touch it.
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  #13  
Old November 5th, 2009, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andyrad
The cost to the dealer in dollars would be $54,432, plus 6.5% duty brings it to $57,970. That is using the 1.70 exchange rate. Then add GST of $2898 which they get back anyway and their grand total without shipping is just about $61,000. Now add the markup and no body would touch it.
Yah, I would use 1.8 as a basis. Lots of fluctuation lately.... Plus provincial sales tax, safety inspection...... I can't see a dealer price less than $80000.
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  #14  
Old November 5th, 2009, 07:35 PM
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Sounds like you'd only build one.
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  #15  
Old November 5th, 2009, 07:35 PM
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I'll tell you what, screw the dealer and bring me one to my door, all in for 50K CDN and you have a deal. I'm 90% serious if you think it can be done and you can make money on it.
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  #16  
Old November 6th, 2009, 12:33 PM
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Julian Kotting
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andyrad
I'll tell you what, screw the dealer and bring me one to my door, all in for 50K CDN and you have a deal. I'm 90% serious if you think it can be done and you can make money on it.
Thats the problem, they want to pay $50,000CDN, but the cheapest I can do and make a profit is $60,000USD including container shipping to Toronto. If its two trucks I can reduce it to USD $56,000 each.

I'd seriously consider trying to cost a truck for an individual at $50,000USD not including shipping.
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  #17  
Old November 8th, 2009, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by globallandrovers
Thats the problem, they want to pay $50,000CDN, but the cheapest I can do and make a profit is $60,000USD including container shipping to Toronto. If its two trucks I can reduce it to USD $56,000 each.

I'd seriously consider trying to cost a truck for an individual at $50,000USD not including shipping.
Well, Andy, why go for a brand new truck and eat all the depreciation? Get a 1-2 year old 110, get Julian to rebuild it just the same, and it would fall into your price range ...
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  #18  
Old November 8th, 2009, 02:17 PM
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A 1-5 yr old TD5 would be easier, I do have a 300tdi LHD comming in New Galv chassis and Bulkhead, $50,000
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