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  #1  
Old December 18th, 2012, 12:54 AM
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A couple of items...

In the past (starting before the recent shooting tragedy last week) some members PMed me concerning their opinion about some "hot topics" that often lead to polarization between members with different views such as politics, religion and guns. We feel strongly that our members should be allowed to continue to discuss these topics but we do not wan them to disrupt the ambiance of our community. In the next couple days we will be installing a system which will require members to opt-in (just a couple clicks) if they want to view these "hot topic" discussions. We feel this is the best solution to allow everyone to continue with business as usual while at the same time keeping our primary focus on Rovers.

In discussing this solution to the team it was brought to my attention that gun sales online have been prohibited by eBay, Craigslist, and many other sites because of federal and state laws that add to the complexity of those transactions. GunsAmerica.com had this to say about the process:
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There are federal guidelines in place allowing for the sale of guns online. They stipulate that guns can only be transferred through a licensed dealer, a dealer holding a Federal Firearms License. So, if you want to buy a gun, you have to clear it through a local gun shop dealer and have them fax a copy of their license to the seller. With these kinds of guidelines, your local dealer will run the required background check on you and if everything checks out, follow through with the purchase.
We will no longer be allowing any guns to be listed for sale in the classifieds, there are plenty of classifieds sites such as ArmsList.com and thousands of gun forums for buying, selling and trading firearms. I apologize to our handful of members who this will impact.

I will post an official announcement later this week once we have the opt-in setup for the "hot topics" so everyone can quickly opt-in if desired.

Thanks for your understanding and continued support.
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  #2  
Old December 18th, 2012, 01:08 AM
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I understand why this is happening, but an emotional response isn't always the best. Although the members of this site do not "own" it we/they/us do a pretty good job at governing the topics and the direction. Adding more hoops and deciding what can be discussed/sold will only take away from this sites appeal.

This sort of "over regulation" is going to take away the very value of it. If I use profane language, post nudes or provocative photos well yeah, but seriously, think about what path you're going down. maybe a rating system so folks could be warned, but even thats a stretch. The members on this sight can think, feel and decide what conversations they want to expose themselves to.

This is my unsolicited opinion.
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  #3  
Old December 18th, 2012, 01:19 AM
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Bill,

I understand and agree, we are not going to regulate these "hot topic" discussions. We are only requiring members to opt-in if they want to participate in them. As I mentioned in my previous post, members have PMed me before the tragedy that took place last week. I believe the issues of last week and some photos of toddlers crawling with guns prompted more people to send PMs stating they felt it was not proper (especially at this time). Members are free to continue the same discussions about the "hot topics" such as guns, politics and religion but you will have to opt-in to see them once the system is setup.

As for the classified ads being used to sell guns, that's primarily me covering my ass because I don't want to get sued should an improper transaction take place. The cost to lawyer up would be thousand if not tens of thousands of dollars, I am not keen to take that risk since there have only been 4 members list guns for sale in the last year. There are plenty of websites which are setup to facilitate the buying, selling and trading of guns so I think it's best those listings remain at those sites.
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  #4  
Old December 18th, 2012, 01:37 AM
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  #5  
Old December 18th, 2012, 06:25 AM
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You clearly have no idea the legalities of buying/selling firearms. The firearms listed for sale, including mine were 100% legal and all transfers occurred within Federal and State guidelines.

I consider these guys a tight group of Rover friends, and thus we buy/sell sometimes "dangerous" stuff. Scary. The liability rests on our shoulders, not yours.

I suggest you also ban knives, pointy objects, insults, hurt feelings, politics, religion, and heck, ban the sale of trucks too, because they kill people and you might be liable.

If you don't like the subject of the thread, don't click on it and read it. And if you do, don't cry about it if it offends you.
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  #6  
Old December 18th, 2012, 06:40 AM
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Andy, why do you guys have to put this "opt-in/opt-out" in effect?

If these "complainers" have an issue, simply don't click on the thread. Right?

I don't buy nor sell guns and don't see the issue on any of these threads. I've actually seen worse threads and nothing was done about them.
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Originally Posted by Wolf Fabrication View Post
You clearly have no idea the legalities of buying/selling firearms. The firearms listed for sale, including mine were 100% legal and all transfers occurred within Federal and State guidelines.

I consider these guys a tight group of Rover friends, and thus we buy/sell sometimes "dangerous" stuff. Scary. The liability rests on our shoulders, not yours.

I suggest you also ban knives, pointy objects, insults, hurt feelings, politics, religion, and heck, ban the sale of trucks too, because they kill people and you might be liable.

If you don't like the subject of the thread, don't click on it and read it. And if you do, don't cry about it if it offends you.
For that matter, don't buy a Defender either. They catch fire.
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  #7  
Old December 18th, 2012, 07:08 AM
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I know I am still a noob here, but I think the subject of wether or not the spare tire belongs on the bonnet is a very "HOT" topic. So in the interest of having no more feelings hurt and friendships destroyed over this needless argument. Please restrict this sordid subject to some dark, dank corner of this otherwise fine web site. Or ban it altogether because everyone knows the tire is clearly potentially sunsafe on the back of the truck and to promote such potentially dangerous ideas could potentially expose us to a potential law suit or potential federal government action and oversight.

------ Follow up post added December 18th, 2012 07:11 AM ------

I forgot to add someone, somewhere could be potentially offended as well. Can't have that.
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  #8  
Old December 18th, 2012, 07:22 AM
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Recent discussions while passionate and polarizing are what makes a site like d-90 attractive. I gained a lot of understanding of how other people think and feel and hopefully this was reciprocated.

Without debate issues cannot be solved.

Sure other sites exist for such debates as well but d-90 has people who we converse with daily and that's the difference.

Limiting discussion isn't a good thing in my opinion.
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  #9  
Old December 18th, 2012, 07:38 AM
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I agree with what you guys are saying, people should just not click on topics they don't want to see or read about. It should be so simple right? Well we all know that it takes one whiner to set off an avalanche of bullshit, so if Andy and the team feel it best to protect themselves by making a click through they should be able to do it. On the other hand, snap emotional decisions should not lead to big changes either.

Andy and team, perhaps clicking through drops a cookie so its a one and done type of thing.

Gun sales - I have no idea whats legal, but that should be simple enough to figure out. The question is wether there is any way a gun sale could happen here that could leave the D-90 source team liable should something illegal go down? If that possibility exists, then I'm all for banning gun sales. If there is a way they cold clear themselves with a statement or click through thing then that's a better solution.
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  #10  
Old December 18th, 2012, 08:13 AM
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You don't necessarily know the content of a thread from its title.
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  #11  
Old December 18th, 2012, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leastonce View Post
You don't necessarily know the content of a thread from its title.
But read the first few lines of the post and it should be pretty obvious. If it offends you (not you, but the general you), then avert your eyes and hit the back tab on your browser.

There seems to be some sort of underlying assumption that the majority of us are children and unable to emotionally cope with a potentially offensive thread.
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  #12  
Old December 18th, 2012, 08:52 AM
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Andy-
I belive they Opt in when they log in. So many folks say how great this site is. This site is more than the sum of its posts.... judge this site from the middle not the left or right. Showing a toddler with a firearm is nothing and to complain about that post is such a cowards point to motivate someone to do something.

So lets imagine it was loaded...do you really think the toddler could have hurt himseld. Seriously most of these folks are responsible like minded people fully able to controll themselves. The parent that would let a young child sitting on a drivers lap or a parent leaving a dog in the room, alone with a toddler is more dangerous. I say let the 5% that would complain go to disco_e_ and then they can complain.

To the point of guns for sale...You would have more liability from members "verbally Gang Banging" a vendor than someone selling a gun. Thats why we have the wonderful federal tobacco and firearms folks, and actually if you flip this over you or this site could actually out someone doing something illegal. Do you realize that a quarter of the active members on this board have the individual skill set that if applied could topple a small goverment! Skill learned in service to your country! They are responsible to self govern.

Your biggest liability is being an owner of something someone can manipulate you with. I have owned my own company for 21 years now and I live in court, I hate the fact that I need four lawyers just to protect and defend, but thats the way it is. You will never escape it. I would much rather spend that money on Rovers....oh yeah which is what brings me here in the first place!!


Oh- one last thing then I'm done with this....the members comenting care about this site and its fellow members. They are not here taking the time to post because they have nothing better to do. They are doing this because they want to. This site is a community not everone agrees but they know how to act as adults (except for some on the left coast and in the s. east). In the end it's all good....we all have a choice and dont need every little thing decided for us on a social level. The school shootings although tragic could not have been adverted. If a motivated individual wants to do something he can Google his level of devistation and make it happen. Sad but true...freedom of choice.
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  #13  
Old December 18th, 2012, 09:02 AM
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Andy, just for clarification's sake, can I assume that like Craigslist and ebay, accessories and parts for firearms are still fair game in the classifieds and that the new policy only covers complete weapons?
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Old December 18th, 2012, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Larson View Post
Andy-
I say let the 5% that would complain go to disco_e_ and then they can complain.
Let's be honest...the people that are complaining about the things that prompted these changes aren't on Dweb...LRO maybe, but not Dweb.
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  #15  
Old December 18th, 2012, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Fabrication View Post
But read the first few lines of the post and it should be pretty obvious. If it offends you (not you, but the general you), then avert your eyes and hit the back tab on your browser.

There seems to be some sort of underlying assumption that the majority of us are children and unable to emotionally cope with a potentially offensive thread.
Itís OK we can go back to talking about fingers and a sphincter muscle
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  #16  
Old December 18th, 2012, 09:08 AM
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I really think it is silly to make such a change but if we are making the changes can we stop people from posting when someone dies as it reminds me that I too will die someday and it really upsets me... Or maybe you can stop people from posting medial questions as I am a hypochondriac and spent all night last night worrying that I might have a kidney stone... Oh and also please stop people from posting pictures of rust issues on their rovers, it really stresses me out and caused me to pull apart my rover and galvanize everything out of fear that it was rusting away.

If someone does not like a topic then they do not need to read it, itís not like they are required to read or be part of every single thread on this board they are free to avert their eyes from the content that they do not want to see.

There have been threads and are threads that I do not want to read and I simply do not read them... You are setting yourself up for a long battle of trying to appease everyone that will never end until you lock the site down so much that it is not of use to anyone.
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  #17  
Old December 18th, 2012, 09:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abrooks View Post
Andy, just for clarification's sake, can I assume that like Craigslist and ebay, accessories and parts for firearms are still fair game in the classifieds and that the new policy only covers complete weapons?
Nope, he removed my Thompson Contender barrels that I had for sale too. Looks like anything gun related is not allowed.

Knives are next....
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  #18  
Old December 18th, 2012, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by dave_lucas View Post
... it’s not like they are required to read or be part of every single thread on this board...
Whew, that's a relief. Now I might actually be able to get some work done today.
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  #19  
Old December 18th, 2012, 09:35 AM
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  #20  
Old December 18th, 2012, 09:37 AM
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It's official, the "Nanny State" has already taken hold of D-90.

Like others said, where do you draw the line? If I want to sell a non-EPA-compliant TD5, or a Non-CARB compliant Jerry Can is that going to be shut down next?

There are enough members that are gun enthusiasts that you shoudl go the other direction and create a gun section. While FS Parts may not be the best place to list weapons for sale, members shoudl be allowed to share thier related hobbies and interests here. Isn't that how the Cooking Corner started (microbrews and such).

THis is classic reactionary behavior after last weeks shooting. The entire gun debate on this forum was of course polaized and strongly opinionated, but I don't think it ever got out of control. So, in the course of a week, we're looking at chiseling away our 2nd amendment rights AND the 1st amendment rights?

What's next, are you going to ban Neil from posting pics of post-op trannies and underage runaways.

C'Mon Andy, really? This is a slippery slope.
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