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  #41  
Old December 18th, 2012, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Janet H View Post
Let's focusing on the stuff we share in common rather than that we don't.
You mean like politics, religion, and guns?
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  #42  
Old December 18th, 2012, 01:19 PM
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[QUOTE=Janet H;396509]I think this is the point. The laws are different in many states and frankly websites are being found culpable if there's ever a problem. While you may consider this a closed and tight knit group, anyone can register and post here and for that matter anyone can read. It's not an action aimed specifically at you but it's hard to have an exclusion for just the safe and legal sellers.

Which website has been found culpable or even sued? I find this incredibly difficult to believe.
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  #43  
Old December 18th, 2012, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Janet H View Post
I think this is the point. The laws are different in many states and frankly websites are being found culpable if there's ever a problem. While you may consider this a closed and tight knit group, anyone can register and post here and for that matter anyone can read. It's not an action aimed specifically at you but it's hard to have an exclusion for just the safe and legal sellers.
So where do you guys fall out with used parts, or better yet trucks that may skirt the lines of legality-if those ever are found liable for something like an accident should this website also be considered as a contributor to that?

The reaction here is indicative of a problem in the debate on weapons; ignorance of them. Moreover state and federal laws are taken into account in every post on the sale of those that I've seen-i.e. the Face to Face (FTF) or via an FFL (where you will get a level of accountability).

That's more than can be said for many of the trucks that have gone up for sale here over time.

Just want to make sure we fully air out the hypocrisy if we're going to bask in it...
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  #44  
Old December 18th, 2012, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray_G View Post
So where do you guys fall out with used parts, or better yet trucks that may skirt the lines of legality-if those ever are found liable for something like an accident should this website also be considered as a contributor to that?

The reaction here is indicative of a problem in the debate on weapons; ignorance of them. Moreover state and federal laws are taken into account in every post on the sale of those that I've seen-i.e. the Face to Face (FTF) or via an FFL (where you will get a level of accountability).

That's more than can be said for many of the trucks that have gone up for sale here over time.

Just want to make sure we fully air out the hypocrisy if we're going to bask in it...
Thanks for that Ray. I have grown tired of banging my head on my computer screen....
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  #45  
Old December 18th, 2012, 02:05 PM
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The way I see it

By setting it as opt in new users and people that do not come around often will not know to opt in and the amount of segregated posts will have less post / activity slowly dying over time removing the type of people / posts you do not want on your site... brilliant actually like teaching future generations smoking / guns / whatever is bad and over time it will slowly go away.

If this is not you intent then set it as opt out and the people that are bothered by subjects can opt out... after all they are the ones bothered by said subjects.

Andy, you know I have had your back when everyone was bitching and complaining about changes but even I think this is BS.

And Janet if we were only to discus defender related items this site would have almost no activity.

It is your sandbox do as you please but this is one if the few sites I frequent and if you look most of the people upset with the change are the long term people that contribute to this site all of the time. People need to grow up if they di not want to read something then do not read it.
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  #46  
Old December 18th, 2012, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Janet H View Post
I think this is the point. The laws are different in many states and frankly websites are being found culpable
Can you please provide links to the websites that were found culpable? Would be interested to see if they were acting as vendors, or simply communities.
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  #47  
Old December 18th, 2012, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave_lucas View Post
By setting it as opt in new users and people that do not come around often will not know to opt in and the amount of segregated posts will have less post / activity slowly dying over time removing the type of people / posts you do not want on your site... brilliant actually like teaching future generations smoking / guns / whatever is bad and over time it will slowly go away.

If this is not you intent then set it as opt out and the people that are bothered by subjects can opt out... after all they are the ones bothered by said subjects.
Dave, great minds think alike.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rijosho View Post
What these flags SHOULD NOT be is a way for "hot" discussions to be somehow squelched or suppressed as that would be a real shame. Access to them should be the same, and an "OPT OUT" as opposed to an "OPT IN" should probably be the direction on this. For these discussions to be somehow invisible to those who may likely want to participate would really not be ideal. Sure, it's not "rover" content, but it is community content, and this forum is more than just rover-related technical discussions.
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  #48  
Old December 18th, 2012, 02:45 PM
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Couple things. I like reading threads about politics and guns here because I can get adult perspective from people who have been there and done that. Mostly everyone who is here is also respectful of other people's views, although they don't always agree.
Secondly, I would think that there would be more of a responsibility to the website owner if someone found out how to get a questionable vehicle in the country and then had it taken, or to do a modification that resulted in death or injury.
It's a good sight with a lot of regulars who do a pretty good job of policing each other.
I also doubt that anyone here would sell a firearm to a 'member' that just signed up the other day. I know if I buy or sell something, I usually look through some threads about the person.
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  #49  
Old December 18th, 2012, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evilfij View Post
Which website has been found culpable or even sued? I find this incredibly difficult to believe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Disco_Stu View Post
Can you please provide links to the websites that were found culpable? Would be interested to see if they were acting as vendors, or simply communities.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...0,404840.story
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray_G View Post
So where do you guys fall out with used parts, or better yet trucks that may skirt the lines of legality-if those ever are found liable for something like an accident should this website also be considered as a contributor to that?
No, I don't think this website should be found liable for any of the actions of the members that participating in our interactive service. Technically we are protected by Section 230 of the Communications Decency act. That being said, when dealing with transactions that could potentially require a background check and activist groups ready to file a lawsuit I am more concerned.

Like I said before, when reviewing the past posts on this, a little over one per month means these are far and few between. I don't feel comfortable with allowing them at this point and unless you want to step up and pay our legal bills (should something happen) then I'd rather ask our members to list their guns for sale on other sites (there are plenty of them).

I understand this is a place where people hangout and guns happen to be a hobby enjoyed by many members. That being said, I am just trying to find a solution so the list of new posts does not get filled with topics that some people don't care to see.

How about this, we create a new thread, tag it with "gun" so it will require opt-in and then you can link to your guns for sale on other sites. That way it pushes liability off of us yet still allows you to share the pieces you are selling with others here?
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  #50  
Old December 18th, 2012, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lynchee View Post
Couple things. I like reading threads about politics and guns here because I can get adult perspective from people who have been there and done that.
Well said.
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  #51  
Old December 18th, 2012, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave_lucas View Post
By setting it as opt in new users and people that do not come around often will not know to opt in and the amount of segregated posts will have less post / activity slowly dying over time removing the type of people / posts you do not want on your site... brilliant actually like teaching future generations smoking / guns / whatever is bad and over time it will slowly go away.
Dave,

The reason opt-in was chosen is the fact we want this community to be welcoming to people no matter where they stand on these issues. The primary focus is on Rovers and that's the content that we want to promote. The reality is that some of these "hot topic" discussions get rather heated and each posts bumps them up the new posts list, they get a lot of exposure. That means they can influence the ambiance around here. We don't want these off topic discussions to represent what D-90 is all about. Members are welcome to talk them but will simply be asked to opt-in if they want to participate in those. I am quite certain that the discussions will remain lively over time because those who actually post in them or enjoy reading them will opt-in.

Andy
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  #52  
Old December 18th, 2012, 03:16 PM
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I've been on forums where the political discussions were destroying the purpose of the forum and drowning out its original meaning.
Ultimately politics was banned.
Do you want that here?
I'm here for defenders and advice. So if mods want to create a political playpen where people can go, I'm ok with that. Especially if its invisible unless you open the door by choice.
Guns, if the forum is put at risk by their presence, then the forum needs to cull them. We need this forum to live.
I couldn't have built my truck without it.
Just saying.
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  #53  
Old December 18th, 2012, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy R View Post
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...0,404840.storyNo, I don't think this website should be found liable for any of the actions of the members that participating in our interactive service. Technically we are protected by Section 230 of the Communications Decency act. That being said, when dealing with transactions that could potentially require a background check and activist groups ready to file a lawsuit I am more concerned.

Like I said before, when reviewing the past posts on this, a little over one per month means these are far and few between. I don't feel comfortable with allowing them at this point and unless you want to step up and pay our legal bills (should something happen) then I'd rather ask our members to list their guns for sale on other sites (there are plenty of them).

I understand this is a place where people hangout and guns happen to be a hobby enjoyed by many members. That being said, I am just trying to find a solution so the list of new posts does not get filled with topics that some people don't care to see.

How about this, we create a new thread, tag it with "gun" so it will require opt-in and then you can link to your guns for sale on other sites. That way it pushes liability off of us yet still allows you to share the pieces you are selling with others here?
If you get sued, I will take the case pro bono. The Illinois suit filed this week will get tossed and will likely end up in fee shifting.
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  #54  
Old December 18th, 2012, 03:32 PM
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So perhaps I missed it before, do you have to opt-in to each thread, or just a catchall category? I can barely keep up with my Rover and Neil's girlfriend exploits, let alone my curiousity as to why Josh is called horsey...My $.02, if you put too many procedures in place to appeal to the select few whiners, you're going to take away the fun of this site.
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  #55  
Old December 18th, 2012, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy R View Post
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...0,404840.storyNo, I don't think this website should be found liable for any of the actions of the members that participating in our interactive service. Technically we are protected by Section 230 of the Communications Decency act. That being said, when dealing with transactions that could potentially require a background check and activist groups ready to file a lawsuit I am more concerned.

Like I said before, when reviewing the past posts on this, a little over one per month means these are far and few between. I don't feel comfortable with allowing them at this point and unless you want to step up and pay our legal bills (should something happen) then I'd rather ask our members to list their guns for sale on other sites (there are plenty of them).

I understand this is a place where people hangout and guns happen to be a hobby enjoyed by many members. That being said, I am just trying to find a solution so the list of new posts does not get filled with topics that some people don't care to see.

How about this, we create a new thread, tag it with "gun" so it will require opt-in and then you can link to your guns for sale on other sites. That way it pushes liability off of us yet still allows you to share the pieces you are selling with others here?
IANAL, but one of the many in here could correct me if I am wrong, but this is as incorrect as your perception of Firearm Transfers.
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  #56  
Old December 18th, 2012, 03:36 PM
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Sorry Mods, but this is the beginning of the end of D-90 Forum. Was nice for a while.
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  #57  
Old December 18th, 2012, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hunterjah View Post
So perhaps I missed it before, do you have to opt-in to each thread, or just a catchall category?
just one catch all on/off. Basically a check box that when checked shows the hot topic posts. Just a few clicks.

Evilfij, I'll email you about your offer, thanks.
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  #58  
Old December 18th, 2012, 03:49 PM
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Why dosen't Andy just sell D90.com to us. If you don't enjoy running the site just get rid of it. I'm down for group ownership. Hell I wouldn't change a thing about it, except bringing back Chris V as the main mod. Well, glad I was able to buy some gun parts here from Hannible last week before the changes.
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  #59  
Old December 18th, 2012, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil McCauley View Post
Why dosen't Andy just sell D90.com to us.
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Quote:
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If you don't enjoy running the site just get rid of it.
Who said I didn't enjoy running this site? I think this is the BEST Defender focused forum on the internet and proud to be part of it.
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  #60  
Old December 18th, 2012, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by evilfij View Post
If you get sued, I will take the case pro bono. The Illinois suit filed this week will get tossed and will likely end up in fee shifting.
Ron,

I am certain Alan Gura will gladly co-council with you as you very well know, he loves the infringements committed to the 2nd Amendment
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