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  #21  
Old February 16th, 2016, 09:09 AM
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Just saw this on my Instagram feed
That's the Supacat LRV 400
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  #22  
Old February 16th, 2016, 09:33 AM
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I think I'm the only one who actually kind of likes the DC100.
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  #23  
Old February 16th, 2016, 09:58 AM
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I think I'm the only one who actually kind of likes the DC100.
I'll say it. I don't mind updated technology. IFS/IRS on a vehicle is fine. I did a ton of wheeling 10 years ago. I have kids and a wife now. I don't have time to go out and do crazy anything. Priorities change. Most folks on forums and in the world do 99.9% on road driving and 0.1% off pavement. The idea that people need a solid axle field repairable vehicle is silly. You want it. The folks that do drive around the world won't ever do it in a brand new vehicle. They're going to go with the lowest tech thing that a munson can fix in the desert of chick-a-chick-awasalalal-bim-bob-boo.

I liked it and would have bought one except for the HIDEOUS HUGE RIMS THAT RUIN EVERY VEHICLE CREATED BY LAND ROVER/RANGE ROVER.

Seriously. Gerry McGovern is an idiot obsessed with bling bling big rims. I bet he drinks MD 20/20 bling bling blue raspberry when he hangs out with all his friends.

Do people honestly like low profile tires? The ride sucks and so does the price tag.
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  #24  
Old February 16th, 2016, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by MM3846 View Post
I think I'm the only one who actually kind of likes the DC100.
Probably... That thing was an abomination.
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  #25  
Old February 16th, 2016, 10:37 AM
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Some of the photo-shopped versions of it without big rims and blanked sides(D90 van style) actually looked good.


There aren't many two door SUVs that are "offroady." It had potential but Land Rover obsesses over the cheesy technology, big rims, and better interiors than Lexus instead of acknowledging and accepting that they can have a basic no frills model that will sell in the USA. They ruined their own concept that they thought would be accepted by all because they just flat out don't listen to anybody but themselves.

It makes no sense to me. If you want to sell volume market it to the masses. Jeep did it with the Wrangler Unlimited. How many munson's drive those around for no reason but to look cool?

Now is the time for a car company to market the efficient-eco-friendly-utilitarian-no-frills-non-1%-vehicle. Every idiot will buy it and snap pictures of themselves with it on Twizzler. Get their faces out on the line with their hip new whip. Instead Land Rover goes for the bling. And yet they still can't get their steering wheels to not peel upwards. WTF.
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  #26  
Old February 16th, 2016, 10:59 AM
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I wonder if the Defender should be reborn on a medium to heavy duty truck chassis. Bigger, heavier, stronger, nastier. I'm thinking of a medium duty super-duties, ala F-450, maybe even the F-650

Justification:
To me, a Defender is two solid axles, locking two-speed (or multispeed) center differential, full-time gear driven transfer case. Preferably the differentials are rover pumpkin-style and not Dana style. I'm with mgreenspan that the majority of consumer buyers have no use for the vehicle. So market it to the people who do need it - the medium duty truck market.

Hardcore folks will buy medium-duty trucks if they want to. They'll buy into the credibility. It's like commuting in a dually - it's ridiculous, but people do it if they have the money and interest despite the compromises. The consumer no longer has to bear the responsibility of buying the product. They can buy it on a whim, while the construction / agriculture / heavy industry market can take over the market.

Also, this potentially solves the issue of having to spend money trying to develop quiet, civilized diesels. Just make them simple and noisy.

Just a thought.
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  #27  
Old February 16th, 2016, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by fruitpunch View Post
Let's face it, Land Rover screwed up royally over the past 15 years. They started the SUV boom in the US with the RR in 1987, they gave that market to the ford exploder.... then in 93/94/95/97 they had the Defender in the US and made it so rare and so hard to buy that a company called Jeep took notice and outsold them .... the 5 door LWB Jeep was a direct result of morons of Land Rover not wanting to put an Airbag into a 110. So then when European regulations caught up ... they just ended production. Now the Series V will be a plastic / electronic POS that I will gladly pass on. Long Live the V8 Carbs / 300tdi's.... everyone else have phone with the new stuff. I'll be 70 by the time the 2015's can be imported no need for anything newer. Rover on, did I rant enough ?
How have they screwed up? What's the current wait time on a RR? Did they miss the boat on an entry level off roader? Sure but they are selling the hell out of Discos and Range Rovers. Why bother with the defender here if you are making money on those two trucks?
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  #28  
Old February 16th, 2016, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by flippedrover View Post
How have they screwed up? What's the current wait time on a RR? Did they miss the boat on an entry level off roader? Sure but they are selling the hell out of Discos and Range Rovers. Why bother with the defender here if you are making money on those two trucks?
More money.

Are you saying their sales plan is working to maximize their profits? In the US in 2015, Jeep sold 202,702 Wranglers. In the US in 2014, Jeep sold 175,328. Land Rover sold zero Defenders or Defender replacements in 2014 or 2015 in the US. Land Rover is making zero effort to cut into that market at all. Additionally, in 2015 in the US, Jeep sold 220,260 Cherokees. Land Rover didn't touch that in Evoques. Really solid sales plan.

On the topic of the Wrangler. There is the xterra and the FJ Cruiser is dead. That leaves us with only 4Runner Trail Edition and TRD Tacomas as offroaders. There is no competition. Wrangler's should not be the only choice. There are sales to be had. It would be easy to swoop in with an actual vehicle that isn't a piece of rickety shit that's noisy and crush the sales.




To your point of the LR4 and Range Rover sales, they are competing against BMW, Mercedes, Lexus in those categories. They aren't leading. Yes their sales are increasing, but that's not where the money is going to be had to keep them competitive in my opinion.
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  #29  
Old February 16th, 2016, 12:20 PM
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this body



plus this face



= I am interested
+ diesel= I'll take 2!!!




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  #30  
Old February 16th, 2016, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fruitpunch View Post
the 5 door LWB Jeep was a direct result of morons of Land Rover not wanting to put an Airbag into a 110.
I don't think it is that simple. There is more to it than just bolting an airbag into an existing vehicle. LR was right for not doing this -- they were able to produce the un-compromised Defender for another 18 years.
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  #31  
Old February 17th, 2016, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgreenspan View Post
More money. Are you saying their sales plan is working to maximize their profits? In the US in 2015, Jeep sold 202,702 Wranglers. In the US in 2014, Jeep sold 175,328. Land Rover sold zero Defenders or Defender replacements in 2014 or 2015 in the US. Land Rover is making zero effort to cut into that market at all. Additionally, in 2015 in the US, Jeep sold 220,260 Cherokees. Land Rover didn't touch that in Evoques. Really solid sales plan. On the topic of the Wrangler. There is the xterra and the FJ Cruiser is dead. That leaves us with only 4Runner Trail Edition and TRD Tacomas as offroaders. There is no competition. Wrangler's should not be the only choice. There are sales to be had. It would be easy to swoop in with an actual vehicle that isn't a piece of rickety shit that's noisy and crush the sales. To your point of the LR4 and Range Rover sales, they are competing against BMW, Mercedes, Lexus in those categories. They aren't leading. Yes their sales are increasing, but that's not where the money is going to be had to keep them competitive in my opinion.
what I'm saying is that they have decided that the wrangler crowd is not what they are after. With the current strategy they have wait lists and people willing to pay a premium on used trucks. Why spend the time effort money in modifying the defender to meet a very small market for the trucks. How well did they sell when they were sold here in the 90s? How much would it cost in R&D to make it meet safety standards. Jeep is lucky that it's a part of a major manufacturer. They had the money to bring the wrangler up to standards never mind that the US was its key market.
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Can't you feel 'em swimmin' around?
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  #32  
Old February 17th, 2016, 03:27 PM
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I'm not talking about modifying the Defender. I'm talking about any replacement vehicle.


They sell small numbers of vehicles in the US. The market is larger for vehicles priced 25k-45k. They intentionally price their shit outside of the high volume market. Look at the number of Rav4s and Cherokees that are selling. Combined in 2015 those two models sold over 500k vehicles in the US. Just those two models of vehicles from different manufacturers. Land Rover has been sitting on their asses for a decade doing nothing but peddling a wimpy attempt at a vehicle (LR2). So they have a vehicle in the market there but it sucks.


Lets look at 4Runner sales. 97k in 2015, up almost 20k from 2014. That and the Wrangler are the Defender replacement's real competition. Sales totals increasing for both Toyota and Jeep but Land Rover is still absent. It's like when the next version of Doom was going to be released. Just kept getting pushed further and further in the future. Soon enough, nobody will care anymore and will have forgotten what a Defender even was. Jeep is going to make their pickup and will hopefully make the Africa concept a reality. Land Rover will cease to exist except as Range Rover in all likelihood and the Discovery lineup will basically be a $10k cheaper Range Rover.
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  #33  
Old February 17th, 2016, 06:41 PM
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What I can say for certain is that the new Defender won't be an entry level vehicle. Say what you want, but JLR is now a premum brand. I'm sure it will be capable. I'll probably like it. but it won't be an entry level vehicle.

I mean even in 97, the defender was what, 37k? What is that in 2016 dollars? Mid 40's maybe?

There is a lot of pent up demand for the Defender like there is for most LR products today. I'm sure it will be expensive. And I'm sure they won't have any problem selling it.

Although I do hope there is a stripped down version, but I'm not holding my breath.
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  #34  
Old February 17th, 2016, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by vasily View Post
What I can say for certain is that the new Defender won't be an entry level vehicle. Say what you want, but JLR is now a premum brand. I'm sure it will be capable. I'll probably like it. but it won't be an entry level vehicle. I mean even in 97, the defender was what, 37k? What is that in 2016 dollars? Mid 40's maybe? There is a lot of pent up demand for the Defender like there is for most LR products today. I'm sure it will be expensive. And I'm sure they won't have any problem selling it. Although I do hope there is a stripped down version, but I'm not holding my breath.
Discovery Sport starts at 37K, so no way any US Defender is less than that. I'd be willing to bet 50K starting point, which depending on the look, will either make or break it. My expectations are low on this, but it would be great to be surprised but being that there are rumors of a convertible Evoque, I've given up on this modern brand.
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  #35  
Old February 17th, 2016, 07:58 PM
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50k for a four door would be easier to swallow than for a two door.
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  #36  
Old February 17th, 2016, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by WeBeCinYa View Post
Discovery Sport starts at 37K, so no way any US Defender is less than that. I'd be willing to bet 50K starting point, which depending on the look, will either make or break it. My expectations are low on this, but it would be great to be surprised but being that there are rumors of a convertible Evoque, I've given up on this modern brand.
So a 110 goes for the same price as a LR4/Discovery? That doesn't make any sense... But it would be LR missing the boat again.
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  #37  
Old February 17th, 2016, 08:57 PM
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So a 110 goes for the same price as a LR4/Discovery? That doesn't make any sense... But it would be LR missing the boat again.
I said "starting" at 50k, assuming a 2 door at that price.
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  #38  
Old February 17th, 2016, 09:12 PM
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The problem they are going to have is they are going to miss two of their biggest markets if they price it above the LR4 or Discovery: Farms and Military. Yes, the military and others will still need a simple truck. And yes, farms still exist. And yes, both of these have evolved in ways that are different from the days of the old Defender, but still....

The empty spot in the line up in Land Rover is at the non-luxury "affordable" price range. If some accountant in JLR isn't bringing this up, they need to just whither and die sooner than later.
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  #39  
Old February 17th, 2016, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by RBBailey View Post
The empty spot in the line up in Land Rover is at the non-luxury "affordable" price range. If some accountant in JLR isn't bringing this up, they need to just whither and die sooner than later.
Exactly right!

------ Follow up post added February 17th, 2016 07:24 PM ------

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Originally Posted by RBBailey View Post
And yes, farms still exist.
I thought kids these days were taught that food came from grocery stores.....
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  #40  
Old February 17th, 2016, 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted by RBBailey View Post
The problem they are going to have is they are going to miss two of their biggest markets if they price it above the LR4 or Discovery: Farms and Military. Yes, the military and others will still need a simple truck. And yes, farms still exist. And yes, both of these have evolved in ways that are different from the days of the old Defender, but still....

The empty spot in the line up in Land Rover is at the non-luxury "affordable" price range. If some accountant in JLR isn't bringing this up, they need to just whither and die sooner than later.

I totally agree but the farming/military/work tuck markets are low margin business. There is way more money and higher margins in luxury and lifestyle products.

------ Follow up post added February 18th, 2016 03:26 AM ------

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Originally Posted by D90Overkill View Post
Exactly right!

------ Follow up post added February 17th, 2016 07:24 PM ------



I thought kids these days were taught that food came from grocery stores.....

That's where I get my food....
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