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  #21  
Old March 4th, 2015, 01:11 PM
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I think one thing that has been overlooked so far is to get the Defender out of the passenger vehicle market altogether (not even a jeep competitor) but market it as a light truck or commercial vehicle - a la Unimog, Isuzu NPR, etc. The versatility of the Defender platform is one of its strengths, and that modularity is common in commercial vehicles - and almost never found in consumer transportation.

Leave the range rovers for the soccer moms. I want Defenders doing farmwork and delivering groceries.
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  #22  
Old March 4th, 2015, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by sonoronos View Post
I think one thing that has been overlooked so far is to get the Defender out of the passenger vehicle market altogether (not even a jeep competitor) but market it as a light truck or commercial vehicle - a la Unimog, Isuzu NPR, etc
They might do that in other markets if it is engineered with that kind of spectrum capability, but it will never ever be sold here that way. In the US, Land Rover/Range Rover is considered a premium brand after years of brand shaping. It would be futile to try to compete in the same space as F150. Small and medium sized businesses would not support it in the likely cost and numbers LR is going to be facing.
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  #23  
Old March 4th, 2015, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonoronos View Post
I think one thing that has been overlooked so far is to get the Defender out of the passenger vehicle market altogether (not even a jeep competitor) but market it as a light truck or commercial vehicle - a la Unimog, Isuzu NPR, etc

My thought exactly. I'm just not sure they could sell enough of them to the commercial/industrial/military markets to make it economically feasible.
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  #24  
Old March 4th, 2015, 01:20 PM
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It would be futile to try to compete in the same space as F150. Small and medium sized businesses would not support it in the likely cost and numbers LR is going to be facing.
Agree it would be futile to compete with the Ford F-market in the US. Still they could sell trucks in the same way that Isuzu (NPR), Mercedes Benz (Sprinter vans) do. Those vehicles are still quite successful.

I think my basic point is that it doesn't really make sense to have a "civilized" Defender in the passenger car market. The LR4 would completely wipe the floor with the Defender not to mention a Toyota 4Runner. The thing would be dead out of the gate. You would need to have a market that really needs its most useful characteristics: Versatility (diesels, engine combinations, different cab configurations, wheelbases), strong frame, LT230, solid front/rear axles, coil springs, front/rear locking differentials.)

Most consumers of passenger vehicles just don't care about anything on that list. Isn't this why almost every rendering of a new Defender is totally panned? I think it's time somebody rendered something that was bigger, stronger, badder, more utilitarian and more capable...think of what the MATV is to the Humvee.

Maybe the reason the Defender is flagging is not because it's too utilitarian for the consumer market. Maybe it's not utilitarian enough for the commercial market.
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  #25  
Old March 4th, 2015, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by sonoronos View Post
Agree it would be futile to compete with the Ford F-market in the US. Still they could sell trucks in the same way that Isuzu (NPR), Mercedes Benz (Sprinter vans) do. Those vehicles are still quite successful.

I think my basic point is that it doesn't really make sense to have a "civilized" Defender in the passenger car market. The LR4 would completely wipe the floor with the Defender not to mention a Toyota 4Runner. The thing would be dead out of the gate. You would need to have a market that really needs its most useful characteristics: Versatility (diesels, engine combinations, different cab configurations, wheelbases), strong frame, LT230, solid front/rear axles, coil springs, front/rear locking differentials.)

Most consumers of passenger vehicles just don't care about anything on that list. Isn't this why almost every rendering of a new Defender is totally panned? I think it's time somebody rendered something that was bigger, stronger, badder, more utilitarian and more capable...think of what the MATV is to the Humvee.

Maybe the reason the Defender is flagging is not because it's too utilitarian for the consumer market. Maybe it's not utilitarian enough for the commercial market.
While I tend to agree logically with your thinking, I would also argue that this is the likely reason why it took SOOOO long for Chrysler to come out with a 4 door CJ/YJ; thinking it didn't make sense from a pure attributes standpoint to have one in the same space as the Cherokee. Yet they took the gamble and here we are.

A defender in the passenger market is going to be gobbled up by every mom and dad that can't stand to be in the run of the mill SUV. The SUV is quickly becoming the new mini-van.
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  #26  
Old March 4th, 2015, 01:49 PM
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A defender in the passenger market is going to be gobbled up by every mom and dad that can't stand to be in the run of the mill SUV. The SUV is quickly becoming the new mini-van.
But isn't a problem with that conclusion that the end product is just a marketing/style exercise?
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  #27  
Old March 4th, 2015, 02:00 PM
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But isn't a problem with that conclusion that the end product is just a marketing/style exercise?
Yes. the H2 hummer is just a different body on a suburban chassis. Have you seen any of those in carpool lane at your kids' school?
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  #28  
Old March 4th, 2015, 02:08 PM
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Yes. the H2 hummer is just a different body on a suburban chassis. Have you seen any of those in carpool lane at your kids' school?
A sheep in wolf's clothing! I thought it was on the Tahoe. Either way, I'd rather have the Tahoe or burban than the H2.
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  #29  
Old March 4th, 2015, 02:50 PM
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Have you seen what H2's are advertised for these days? Seem to/maybe retain "value" better than Tahoes. Auto trader has some listed with 70k miles for mid $20's. Personally I don't like the aesthetics. I have never ridden in one though.
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  #30  
Old March 4th, 2015, 02:54 PM
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Have you seen what H2's are advertised for these days? Seem to/maybe retain "value" better than Tahoes. Auto trader has some listed with 70k miles for mid $20's. Personally I don't like the aesthetics. I have never ridden in one though.
That's just crazy! Sinfully fugly. Too much plastic chrome and less outward and rear visibility than the Tahoe/Burban!
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  #31  
Old March 4th, 2015, 02:58 PM
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Couldnt you say the same thing about a D1 and a D90?

-Jeff

Yes. that's another good example to illustrate my point that a Defender has a place in the LRNA product line up.
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  #32  
Old March 4th, 2015, 03:00 PM
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Sinfully fugly.

New signature?
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  #33  
Old March 4th, 2015, 03:01 PM
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New signature?
haha!
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  #34  
Old March 4th, 2015, 08:29 PM
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Aluminum body, live axles. The real new Defender..... Live Axles to Remain in Next Jeep Wrangler AutoGuide.com News
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  #35  
Old March 4th, 2015, 08:39 PM
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Since this is all things silly Land Rover thread, Evoque Convertible anyone?

Land Rover to introduce convertible Evoque SUV
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  #36  
Old March 4th, 2015, 08:57 PM
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Aluminum body, live axles. The real new Defender..... Live Axles to Remain in Next Jeep Wrangler AutoGuide.com News
Yup. Because they have other models for mall crawling. And so does Land Rover. But for some reason they seem to want to make all of their models into the same thing, just different sizes.
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  #37  
Old March 4th, 2015, 10:18 PM
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I'm optimistic it's going to be bad ass. But even if it's kind of like a new Wrangler, that'd be okay. One of my good friends just got a brand new Wrangler and I'm quite impressed with it. A lot fancier than my old Defender. I guess 2012 is when they finally got it right. Pretty good engine, room for your arms, and a nice interior. It's pretty tempting.
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  #38  
Old March 4th, 2015, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Chip View Post
I'm optimistic it's going to be bad ass. But even if it's kind of like a new Wrangler, that'd be okay. One of my good friends just got a brand new Wrangler and I'm quite impressed with it. A lot fancier than my old Defender. I guess 2012 is when they finally got it right. Pretty good engine, room for your arms, and a nice interior. It's pretty tempting.

I am optimistic as well. If the new defender is closer in resemblance to the new Wrangler then it is to the evoque convertible thing, I will buy one when it gets here.
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  #39  
Old March 4th, 2015, 10:46 PM
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I would love to be optimistic, until I remember that Gerry McGovern is head of design. While he may be the Jesus Incarnate of Range Rover design and aesthetic, I am not sure it translates to the Defender.

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  #40  
Old March 4th, 2015, 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by navydevildoc View Post
I would love to be optimistic, until I remember that Gerry McGovern is head of design. While he may be the Jesus Incarnate of Range Rover design and aesthetic, I am not sure it translates to the Defender.

Yeah, I don't think so. If they want to make it all posh with an auto and leather I guess that's okay as long as they still offer a utilitarian version.
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