2014 healthcare costs - Page 3 - Defender Source
Defender Source  

Go Back   Defender Source > Non-Technical Discussions > Misc. Chit-Chat


Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #41  
Old October 15th, 2013, 09:31 PM
Daddymow's Avatar
Daddymow
Status: Offline
Raub A.
1987 D110 Tithonus
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Stuart, FL / Boone, NC
Posts: 3,975
Registry
The ACA is not about health care or costs. It is about control. Period.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #42  
Old October 15th, 2013, 09:46 PM
leastonce's Avatar
leastonce
Status: Offline
Jason England
D-90 White 95 SW #65
Site Team
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: NYC
Posts: 6,078
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave_lucas View Post
That is a scary proposition, who would decide what constitutes risk and how much they pay?

If you have a family history of medical issues does that make you high risk?
If you have had cancer and survived does that make you high risk?
If you rock climb does that make you high risk?
People that work around carcinogens?
Smokers? Ex-Smokers? Drug users? People that consume alcohol? People that are overweight?

How much money do you assign each risk factor and how much for each type of risk
These are all modeled for life insurance policies ...
__________________
Quote:
Soapy water / KY jelly, etc. is is basically a must. Yes, good idea to remove trim panels - only takes 5 more minutes to do so.
Car Camping Collective founding member and Chief Executive Officer
Cat Camping Collective founding member and Chief Executive Officer
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old October 15th, 2013, 09:48 PM
leastonce's Avatar
leastonce
Status: Offline
Jason England
D-90 White 95 SW #65
Site Team
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: NYC
Posts: 6,078
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daddymow View Post
The ACA is not about health care or costs. It is about control. Period.
yep ... control of government ... and the agenda of policy making through Hillary's 8 years in the white house ... and the Republicans are gifting it ... wrapped up in a bow of incompetence.
__________________
Quote:
Soapy water / KY jelly, etc. is is basically a must. Yes, good idea to remove trim panels - only takes 5 more minutes to do so.
Car Camping Collective founding member and Chief Executive Officer
Cat Camping Collective founding member and Chief Executive Officer
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #44  
Old October 15th, 2013, 09:54 PM
evilfij's Avatar
evilfij
Status: Offline
evilfij
I have never seen a rover in person
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: on the internet
Posts: 14,688
Dave,

You hit the nail on the head. All of those things you listed can be readily accounted for by insurance companies and who can charge risk based premiums. The problem is that, unless you work for a corporation or government, if you were high risk you did not have coverage because in the private market you could not afford coverage. This hit older people, people with pre existing conditions and other rationally more expensive things (is women get pregnant, men don't).

All gone under Obamacare. Oh and about the quality of the plans available, if you were a high user of healthcare, would you pay a little more for the gold plan? Of course. The best plans will be gone in a year or two as the market forces destroy them.

All Obamacare is is taking money from young and healthy and wealthy and giving it to the the sick and old and poor.
__________________
*not legal advice*
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old October 15th, 2013, 10:24 PM
Daddymow's Avatar
Daddymow
Status: Offline
Raub A.
1987 D110 Tithonus
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Stuart, FL / Boone, NC
Posts: 3,975
Registry
And once the government is in control of your health care, they will control you in ways you never imagined.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old October 16th, 2013, 01:33 AM
JohnsD90's Avatar
JohnsD90
Status: Offline
John
74 SIII 88", 88 110, 91 110
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: CT
Posts: 2,282
Registry
On top of all the other bullshit, what pissed me off about Obama-care is that you now have to pay a fee if you don't want it, which is the biggest handjob yet.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old October 16th, 2013, 05:51 AM
Overlander's Avatar
Overlander
Status: Offline
mark kellgren
in between D's in an 04 D2
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 6,531
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnsD90 View Post
On top of all the other bullshit, what pissed me off about Obama-care is that you now have to pay a fee if you don't want it, which is the biggest handjob yet.
That would be Obama's base in his election. The young single healthy college grad idealist living in a an apartment and tweeting hope and change from their nest at starbucks.
__________________
Mark Kellgren
KM4BOR

ISIL and al qaeda can go F*ck themselves...
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old October 16th, 2013, 06:57 AM
Ray_G's Avatar
Ray_G
Status: Offline
Ray Gerber
54 S1 86", 96 D1 (Coyote), 06 D3
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: NoVA
Posts: 2,636
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Overlander View Post
That would be Obama's base in his election. The young single healthy college grad idealist living in a an apartment and tweeting hope and change from their nest at starbucks.
I know ya'll are busy losing the last election here (again) but for the sake of pointing it out, that's not exactly the electorate that handed the right it's ass (again). It's a portion to be sure, but if you want to start looking at red states/blue states you have to go a bit deeper.

To get it out of the way, its also not the welfare recipients en masse that were responsible either. Those voters are, generally (like the above generalization) are more likely to be in a red state; the same red state that likely takes more in Fed tax dollars than it provides, or is less educated than most blue states, or more likely to be overweight.

So to keep with the generalizations I guess the young single healthy college grad living within their means defeated the older, unhealthy, overweight, GED earned, credit card roulette playing trailer trash. (ironically the same people most likely to benefit from the ACA)

But that's just generalizations drawn from the statistical examination of red and blue states.
r-
Ray
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old October 16th, 2013, 08:13 AM
woldd90's Avatar
woldd90
Status: Offline
Scott
1997 D90 ST #1444
Site Team
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Georgia
Posts: 5,329
So, now the government is responsible for every facet of someone's life. Personal responsibility and accountability are gone?
__________________
Scott

Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old October 16th, 2013, 09:16 AM
Daddymow's Avatar
Daddymow
Status: Offline
Raub A.
1987 D110 Tithonus
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Stuart, FL / Boone, NC
Posts: 3,975
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray_G View Post
I know ya'll are busy losing the last election here (again) but for the sake of pointing it out, that's not exactly the electorate that handed the right it's ass (again). It's a portion to be sure, but if you want to start looking at red states/blue states you have to go a bit deeper.

To get it out of the way, its also not the welfare recipients en masse that were responsible either. Those voters are, generally (like the above generalization) are more likely to be in a red state; the same red state that likely takes more in Fed tax dollars than it provides, or is less educated than most blue states, or more likely to be overweight.

So to keep with the generalizations I guess the young single healthy college grad living within their means defeated the older, unhealthy, overweight, GED earned, credit card roulette playing trailer trash. (the same people most likely to benefit from the ACA)

But that's just generalizations drawn from the statistical examination of red and blue states.
r-
Ray
Generalizations and statistics aside, the blue states have seemingly embraced the notion of being a serf and are actively driving this country down the road to serfdom. Whereas perhaps the red stater wants to be free to be an older, unhealthy, overweight, GED earned, credit card roulette playing trailer trash. (the same people most likely to benefit from the ACA) as you label them but not expect someone else to pay for the lifestyle.

Raub
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old October 16th, 2013, 09:25 AM
Ray_G's Avatar
Ray_G
Status: Offline
Ray Gerber
54 S1 86", 96 D1 (Coyote), 06 D3
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: NoVA
Posts: 2,636
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daddymow View Post
Generalizations and statistics aside, the blue states have seemingly embraced the notion of being a serf and are actively driving this country down the road to serfdom. Whereas perhaps the red stater wants to be free to be an older, unhealthy, overweight, GED earned, credit card roulette playing trailer trash. (the same people most likely to benefit from the ACA) as you label them but not expect someone else to pay for the lifestyle.

Raub
Perhaps, but the idea that they don't have others paying for their lifestyle is a misnomer. Both in terms of individuals receiving welfare and in terms of the state's receiving more in tax dollars than they contribute.

I'm sure the red states are just overlooking that though, and the Republicans are on the verge of balancing that all back out even if it's detrimental to their constituency.
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old October 16th, 2013, 10:05 AM
Daddymow's Avatar
Daddymow
Status: Offline
Raub A.
1987 D110 Tithonus
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Stuart, FL / Boone, NC
Posts: 3,975
Registry
The road to serfdom is paved with good intentions. I do find it funny that today's "liberals" put fort such tyrannical laws as the ACA. There is no liberty of any kind in what "liberals" want to do to their fellow citizens. Domination and control is all that will result, assuming the ACA dosen't collapse the government first. Central planning has never worked nor will it ever. A central planner can never account for what the individual will do to avoid, counter act or subvert repressive laws. Any free man ought to recoil in horror at the very thought of the government and especially the IRS having acess to and controlling their health care. I do not, nor will I ever understand the desire of a large portion of this country to be a slave.
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old October 16th, 2013, 10:18 AM
101stAirborne's Avatar
101stAirborne
Status: Offline
Battle Ewing
1997 D90 LE 255/300
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Hernando, MS, USA
Posts: 1,200
Registry
http://poorrichardsnews.com/post/637...-obamacare-for
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old October 16th, 2013, 10:19 AM
Ray_G's Avatar
Ray_G
Status: Offline
Ray Gerber
54 S1 86", 96 D1 (Coyote), 06 D3
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: NoVA
Posts: 2,636
Registry
Tyranny...oh dear, here we go. One step from the Khmer Rouge.

Central planning actually does work, BTW, and it works pretty damn well for a lot of things but if the narrative you want to believe takes you back to the Articles of Confederation as a heyday than by all means run with it.

There is a lot more faith in the ability of the government to achieve domination and control over anything than there is actual capability inherent within the government (and intent) to achieve it. Anyone who has actually been in the gov't knows that intuitively.

That's not saying the ACA is the best thing in programatic legislative history, but on the other hand the ruin of this country is likely not going going to come from it either-all the hysterical rhetoric aside.
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old October 16th, 2013, 10:38 AM
lynchee's Avatar
lynchee
Status: Offline
Dennis Lynch
94 D90 #699
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Goffstown NH, USA
Posts: 603
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daddymow View Post
The road to serfdom is paved with good intentions. I do find it funny that today's "liberals" put fort such tyrannical laws as the ACA. There is no liberty of any kind in what "liberals" want to do to their fellow citizens. Domination and control is all that will result, assuming the ACA dosen't collapse the government first. Central planning has never worked nor will it ever. A central planner can never account for what the individual will do to avoid, counter act or subvert repressive laws. Any free man ought to recoil in horror at the very thought of the government and especially the IRS having acess to and controlling their health care. I do not, nor will I ever understand the desire of a large portion of this country to be a slave.
Well said.

Ray, I love that this is now being spun into the Republicans fault. The problem is that people are scumbags, whether they are from poor inner cities, or trailer trash. I would love to cut their 'benefits' by 1/3 and setup limits for 'benefits' and term limits for politicians. If we don't clean house, we are screwed. It's not a partisan thing, it's just numbers.
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old October 16th, 2013, 11:35 AM
Ray_G's Avatar
Ray_G
Status: Offline
Ray Gerber
54 S1 86", 96 D1 (Coyote), 06 D3
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: NoVA
Posts: 2,636
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by lynchee View Post
Well said.

Ray, I love that this is now being spun into the Republicans fault. The problem is that people are scumbags, whether they are from poor inner cities, or trailer trash. I would love to cut their 'benefits' by 1/3 and setup limits for 'benefits' and term limits for politicians. If we don't clean house, we are screwed. It's not a partisan thing, it's just numbers.
Which part is the Republican's fault? The shutdown and possible default? We can talk about the MSM or 'low info voters' and the like all we want, but Jon Stewart said it best-just own it (i.e. that is the Republican's fault).

If we're talking about our financial house being out of order-a broader subject-then both sides are to blame here (hence my earlier comment about the ACA costing about as much as OIF-something we also did on the credit card).

The broader point with that I'd make is you can be as right as you want about things but if your narrative sucks in terms of how it relates to people or you have horrible strap hanging baggage its going nowhere. Welcome to the current Republican Party, and likely the future trajectory of it given the trend lines.

r-
Ray
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old October 16th, 2013, 11:52 AM
evilfij's Avatar
evilfij
Status: Offline
evilfij
I have never seen a rover in person
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: on the internet
Posts: 14,688
So if we hit the debt ceiling, no one gets their entitlement payments, the budget is forcibly balanced, and a bunch of government is shut down permanently.

What is the downside?
__________________
*not legal advice*
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old October 16th, 2013, 12:24 PM
Uncle Douglas's Avatar
Uncle Douglas
Status: Offline
Doug Crowther
A defender in every driveway-motto
D-90 Source Vendor
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Gods Country- Central Virginia
Posts: 11,844
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by evilfij View Post
So if we hit the debt ceiling, no one gets their entitlement payments, the budget is forcibly balanced, and a bunch of government is shut down permanently.

What is the downside?
There is a law on the books that the Congress/US Govt has to pay its debts. So if the default deadline happens Obama potentially gets empowered to make Presidential mandates.

I see that as a downside
__________________
Good judgement comes from experience,experience comes from bad judgement.

Dividing Creek Imports
Worldwide Vehicle Shipment and Importation Service
Restoration & Modification work


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

410.693.1391


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old October 16th, 2013, 12:25 PM
sonoronos's Avatar
sonoronos
Status: Offline
Ed
None
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 5,550
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by evilfij View Post
What is the downside?
AFAIK, for a tea party member, there is none.
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old October 16th, 2013, 12:59 PM
evilfij's Avatar
evilfij
Status: Offline
evilfij
I have never seen a rover in person
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: on the internet
Posts: 14,688
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Douglas View Post
There is a law on the books that the Congress/US Govt has to pay its debts. So if the default deadline happens Obama potentially gets empowered to make Presidential mandates. I see that as a downside
So he pays back bonds/t bills but entitlements are gutted and government gets smaller. Again, I fail to see the downside.
__________________
*not legal advice*
Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Defender Source > Non-Technical Discussions > Misc. Chit-Chat

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Anyone drive one of the 2014 diesel Grand Cherokee? Broncoduecer Misc. Chit-Chat 21 April 28th, 2013 09:28 PM
2014???? matthewwcarey Misc. Chit-Chat 24 December 26th, 2010 11:27 PM
transmission + T Ccase Costs + Options paulb Defender Technical Discussions 13 July 21st, 2008 10:17 PM
Rebuild Costs kjh888 Defender Technical Discussions 4 September 14th, 2005 12:40 PM
Vehicle Registration Costs - Georgia ronward Misc. Chit-Chat 8 September 22nd, 2004 09:16 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:12 AM.


Copyright