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  #1  
Old December 21st, 2010, 11:43 PM
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Matthew Carey
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2014????

Has anyone given any thought to what may happen to the value of our cars when the 20 year old Defenders start crossing over the boarders in 2014?
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  #2  
Old December 21st, 2010, 11:55 PM
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I thought it was 25 years...I think I just saved you 5 years of worry.

Don't forget import costs, lack of limited edition NAS status, dodgy RHD > LHD conversions. I think we're OK.
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  #3  
Old December 22nd, 2010, 07:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matthewwcarey View Post
Has anyone given any thought to what may happen to the value of our cars when the 20 year old Defenders start crossing over the boarders in 2014?

Yeah...I didnt buy my Landrovers for the resale value...I bought them to look cool driving away from the cities when the Zombies come...

No matter how much these go up in value the $$ value will never equal the personal/emotional value. We are all screwed! Go Chevy Colbalt!!
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  #4  
Old December 22nd, 2010, 07:23 AM
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The NAS D110 are still selling high... you can bring 2 D110 Tdi's for the price of a NAS D110.

I don't think is going to matter...

Also, most of Defender owners don't buy for resale...
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  #5  
Old December 22nd, 2010, 08:20 AM
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Well, we have seen NAS 110's sell for 5k and we have seen 1984 300tdi rigs go for upwards of 60k. My predictions? The value of the NAS trucks is going to continue to decline. The really nice ones will hold their value. The less than great examples will equalize or drop in value as newer imports become available. It will be interesting to see what happens to the EPA exemption once the post-1996 Non-OBDII models from overseas start hitting our shores. Also as for RHD-LHD, there will be more LHD available starting this year as export production was larger in 86 and beyond than in the earlier years.
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  #6  
Old December 22nd, 2010, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ren Ching View Post
Well, we have seen NAS 110's sell for 5k
I must not have been lurking when a NAS 110 went for $5k...when was that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ren Ching View Post
we have seen 1984 300tdi rigs go for upwards of 60k.
"Globallandrovers" brought over that 84 or 85 (up to current specs) for upwards of $100k!
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  #7  
Old December 22nd, 2010, 09:48 AM
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This argument can go on forever and ever so I figure I might as well chime in with my expert opinion:

Original trucks whether it be soft tops, station wagons or 110s should always be worth good money no matter what comes into the USA, simply because of the limited production runs. I am talking original trucks that haven't had a bunch of changes made like td5 dashes or new engines etc. With that said since so many trucks go through restorations to bring them to newer standards I feel over the long term the soft tops are the most collectible. If you think about it, stuff to make any ROW truck a restored NAS SW or NAS 110 is readily available. Safety Devices still makes the cages for these trucks so making one is easy. Buy a ROW truck, a plaque for the back, a cage, and you have a recreation which isn't very different from a restored truck.

It's the Soft tops that are unique in the fact that you can't go out and buy a new ST cage and make your own. The molds are gone so there is a finite amount of these floating around. To me that makes it worth all the money.

Personally I love some of the restorations done on NAS 110s with diesels and td5 dashes but these are not collectible. They are what they call "over restorations" Yes very nice and very usable but not collectible long term. Its the ones that are restored to original new standards that should be worth all the money. With that said and having owned a NAS 110 I can say for driving it and enjoying, having an all original one sucks. I would have much rather had a over restored truck that is very usable.

In any event I am rambling. I woudn't worry too much about values as long as your truck wasn't rhinolined by Horsey.
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  #8  
Old December 22nd, 2010, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by bjf View Post
It's the Soft tops that are unique in the fact that you can't go out and buy a new ST cage and make your own. The molds are gone so there is a finite amount of these floating around. To me that makes it worth all the money.
Yeah, ive said this in a previous thread, that no matter what the ST will hold its value the longest.
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  #9  
Old December 22nd, 2010, 10:35 AM
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makes sense, right? in general ST's will hang in there due to their unique attributes. and in general the NAS 110's have seen their days. i went the ROW route because the supply lined up to hit our shores is daunting. i've experienced the ROW 110's go for much more that $60K. sold two this year and two more in inventory.
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  #10  
Old December 22nd, 2010, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by founD90 View Post
I thought it was 25 years...I think I just saved you 5 years of worry.

Don't forget import costs, lack of limited edition NAS status, dodgy RHD > LHD conversions. I think we're OK.
X2, however I say "bring it!" I want to see more Defenders on the road in the US. I'm probably alone in my thinking, but I love them so much, I would like to see more of them here in Charlotte. It would increase their novelty and the public awareness as well, which is a benefit. I think a flood of them would boost their value for quite a while, and there would never be enough to decrease their value.

Besides, "limited edition" will differentiate them from their common counterparts forever. We already see that now.
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  #11  
Old December 22nd, 2010, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by rijosho View Post
I must not have been lurking when a NAS 110 went for $5k...when was that?

Yeah When was that ?!?!?!

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  #12  
Old December 22nd, 2010, 09:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ren Ching View Post
Well, we have seen NAS 110's sell for 5k and we have seen 1984 300tdi rigs go for upwards of 60k. My predictions? The value of the NAS trucks is going to continue to decline.
5K NAS 110?
Gonna call bullshit on that, or prove me wrong.
I'm looking at one that is basically bits and a title and it is triple that.

NAS 110 prices continue to increase and are strong. I have a line of customers all looking for good NAS 110s. If I had 10 I could sell every one. Not one of those customers wants an imported 110. They will not even consider it, even though we could build them a great 1980s 110 with all the tricks for less than a NAS.
All 110s are great, but the only thing that the non-NAS 110s do is fill a void in the market for those who can not afford (or don't want) NAS 110s. Thats a great thing, but NAS 110 values are not going down. In the last 2 months we have set 2 new records for NAS 110 prices (record high, not record low).
When the first 110s came in I heard the same cry "NAS 110 prices will fall". They didn't and they won't. Its a completely different client. The 2 trucks fill different segments in the market.
When 1993 110s are importable, the NAS 1993 version will still be worth 5 times as much or more.
When 1994 90s are importable, the NAS 1994 soft tops will still be worth 5 times as much or more.

The good news is that more 90s and 110s means more people get to play, thats all.

As for the over restored... for what it is worth I have more customers that want over restored NAS 110s than want stock ones. In the long run the trucks that have galv frames and nice upgrades are worth more.
I have a client selling a super low miles NAS 110 right now, bone stock, all there and even all the delivery paperwork. In the time that truck has been for sale (at a kinda too high asking price) I have sold 3 over restored projects for far more. So I don't buy the collector/ gotta be stock argument.
99% of my customers buy these 110s to drive them hard and use them, not store them and wipe them with a diaper. People say "When NAS 110s get old the stock ones will be worth more than restored ones." Really??? The dang things are nearly 20 years old now and over restored ones fetch more than stock. So when will that argument kick in? 25 years? 30 years?
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  #13  
Old December 22nd, 2010, 09:55 PM
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Let me know if you pass on the bits and title NAS 110. If you're not interested i'll buy it.
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  #14  
Old December 23rd, 2010, 09:37 AM
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I met a gentleman one time with a NAS 110 which he allegedly bought salvaged for 6k in the 1999/2000 timeframe. Wayne Gayre supposedly called him all pissed off that he outmaneuvered him.
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  #15  
Old December 23rd, 2010, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECR View Post

I have a client selling a super low miles NAS 110 right now, bone stock, all there and even all the delivery paperwork. In the time that truck has been for sale (at a kinda too high asking price) I have sold 3 over restored projects for far more. So I don't buy the collector/ gotta be stock argument.
99% of my customers buy these 110s to drive them hard and use them, not store them and wipe them with a diaper. People say "When NAS 110s get old the stock ones will be worth more than restored ones." Really??? The dang things are nearly 20 years old now and over restored ones fetch more than stock. So when will that argument kick in? 25 years? 30 years?
I agree with your statement and see the prices on copley's site for your restored trucks and see that they sell much higher than the all original trucks and for my money I would rather the restored but what I am saying from a collectible standpoint is they are only original once. Your market isn't the car collector or if it is they are not seeing this as a collectible but a toy to really use. As people restore to newer standards or change things like I did to mine the number of truly original NAS 110s dwindles. From a collecting car standpoint these cars are not old yet. It took series 1s till the 80s to become collectible so who knows. The prices may never be comparable between an ECR restored truck and an original truck. I mean the original ones will be worth a ton compared to the original cost but your restored ones might go for more as to what is put in to them.

There is a company that sells Mercedes 1970 280sls for 200k with modern running gear installed. Basically a new Mercedes underneath, while I know of a shop that restores to original standards for $100k. Two takes on the same car but two very different end results for different uses. The arugment for both can be made easily. Just depends on how you feel about collecting cars and what your desires are.
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  #16  
Old December 23rd, 2010, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by JimC View Post
I met a gentleman one time with a NAS 110 which he allegedly bought salvaged for 6k in the 1999/2000 timeframe. Wayne Gayre supposedly called him all pissed off that he outmaneuvered him.
I don't know what ever happened to this one, but it appears auction announced it as junk, and title was unrepairable. Don't know if it ever sold, but it probably did.

http://www.auctiondirectusa.com/rale...DH1284PA920892

http://www.yakez.com/for-sale-detail...143031554.html

SALDH1284PA920892



But you can see that even in this case the rear ladder and cage appear to be in OK shape in some places, maybe the the cage and rack are salvageable, and that rear bumper, steelies, etc.
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  #17  
Old December 23rd, 2010, 10:29 AM
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Roasted marshmallow

If this were a house it would be a "Handymans special" -

Maybe the lug nuts and the the diff covers are recoverable.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rijosho View Post
I don't know what ever happened to this one, but it appears auction announced it as junk, and title was unrepairable. Don't know if it ever sold, but it probably did.

http://www.auctiondirectusa.com/rale...DH1284PA920892

http://www.yakez.com/for-sale-detail...143031554.html

SALDH1284PA920892



But you can see that even in this case the rear ladder and cage appear to be in OK shape in some places, maybe the the cage and rack are salvageable, and that rear bumper, steelies, etc.
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  #18  
Old December 23rd, 2010, 10:34 AM
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I'm not a fan of Wayne. Years ago my "94 D90 had an engine fire and Wayne asked me for the insurance info so he could buy it at auction. Afterwards I asked if I could have the badge and he said "No". Not cool.
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  #19  
Old December 23rd, 2010, 11:39 AM
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Josh, you are an amazing resource.

If I had the money, I'd buy an overrestored 110 from ECR vs a stock low miles 110. I have a low milegae 90 and plan to continue to "overrestore it". I don't plan to sell it, heck I've even thought about buying another SW or 110.
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  #20  
Old December 23rd, 2010, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by ECR View Post
99% of my customers buy these 110s to drive them hard and use them, not store them and wipe them with a diaper. People say "When NAS 110s get old the stock ones will be worth more than restored ones." Really??? The dang things are nearly 20 years old now and over restored ones fetch more than stock. So when will that argument kick in? 25 years? 30 years?
Maybe never.
Time will tell, but could be an NAS 110 just doesn't / won't fit in line with the same keep-it-stock collector paradigm as an LS6 '70 Corvette, any '66-'71 Mopar Hemi car; W-31 Olds 442, QB 409 Impala, SCJ 429 Mustang, COPO Camaro, et al. These are no longer really 'cars' in the normal sense any way; they are commodities, like art.

Perhaps the 110's fall more in to the street rod category in this regard. Restified/modified versions are more expensive then stock versions. Prices are insane for street rods and modified shoe boxes. Anyone who has ever attended a Goodguys Rod & Custom or an NSRA event can attest to this. As a rule, SR owners really drive their cars, too. Nary a trailer in sight at one of those events. (Compare that to a Bloomington Gold Corvette or Chryslers at Carlisle event!)
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