200tdi vs V8 - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old July 11th, 2016, 08:32 PM
DrZ123
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200tdi vs V8

Now that I have a 1991 D90 with original 200tdi diesel, 119,000km, I have been able to drive and compare it to my father's 1984 110 V8 gas with 80,000km.

I am posting my findings here with the caveat that this was a test of only my 2 vehicles, one is a 90, one a 110, and one is 7 years older than the other. Here are my findings:

1991 D90 200tdi
Pros:
- Power
- Rarely need to downshift on hills
- Ability to go 75mph on highway
- Starts instantly

Cons:
- LOUD
- Rumble

1984 110 V8
Pros:
- Quiet
- Smooth ride

Cons:
- Looses power
- Often need to downshift, usually to 2nd, on hills
- Pickup slow
- Needs a lot of love to start

Basically, in one sentence, the 200tdi has all the power one can need, is reliable, but is a loud, noisy diesel; the V8 is quiet and smooth, but doesn't have nearly the power or reliability.

Again, hopefully I am not way off base here and it would be great if someone with way more experience than I could chime in. But these were my observations!
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  #2  
Old July 11th, 2016, 08:55 PM
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Basically a stock carbed 3.5 should have pretty much the same power and torque as the TDI. Obviously a 110 is heavier. More likely though the 3.5 is well down on power.
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  #3  
Old July 11th, 2016, 08:55 PM
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I have had both………albeit in very different trucks than most on this board own.

I had a 3.9 in an 88" Series 1 and now have a 200TDI in my Series IIA.

They are very different motors, but a lot of my perception/reality of what I think is different comes down to the gearing of the trucks and what I had them in.

My 3.9 was a rocket ship paired to an LT95. But, once I hit the mountains or really big hills and was running in 4th gear I always felt I was lacking a little umph; not quite enough torque to maintain that speed up those big hills. Its was pretty quite overall, but got dismal fuel mileage…..mostly because I could not keep my foot of the gas. The V8 was a great motor and I see myself sticking one in a Series truck again one day.


The 200 TDI is just so different it's hard to even compare them. A little louder, but honestly not much louder. It has so much more torque it really is hard to compare it to the 3.9 I had. The fuel mileage is through the roof and the speed it can maintain up those same hills is not comparable. Once that turbo spools up, it's a beast.

Both very different, but both great motors.
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  #4  
Old July 11th, 2016, 09:34 PM
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You seem to have similar feelings to what I posted. I guess loud for the 200tdi is less accurate, rumbly like an old man clearing 50 years of cigar phlegm from his throat is more accurate. Similar feelings on needing to downshift in V8 and much more torque of 200tdi


Oh yea, and fuel economy.... I haven't tested my 200tdi, but will soon, as it seems to get crazy fuel economy. I would say well into the 20's mpg if not low 30's.

The V8, as its name implies, around 8 mpg. Seriously, this thing devours gasoline.
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  #5  
Old July 11th, 2016, 09:40 PM
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I'm so curious as to what effect a Mercedes motor mount swap would make on a 200 TDI in regards to NVH.
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  #6  
Old July 12th, 2016, 12:00 PM
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This past weekend I took my 110 on a 6+ hour round trip for the first time since the tdi swap. I've done this same trip many times with my NAS 90. The tdi, over the course of 3 hours, wore me out a bit. I was good and ready for a cold beer when we got to the top of the Mtn.
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Old July 12th, 2016, 12:21 PM
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No question if I drove the tdi for an hour or more I would probably feel the rumble for hours afterwards.
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Old July 12th, 2016, 12:46 PM
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There should not be any engine vibrations that you feel other than at idle. I do long trips in my truck. Noisier, mostly due to wind noise than other vehicles, but no less comfortable to drive. Obviously less power to weight than any modern vehicle, but fast enough for most things.
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Old July 12th, 2016, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red90 View Post
There should not be any engine vibrations that you feel other than at idle. I do long trips in my truck. Noisier, mostly due to wind noise than other vehicles, but no less comfortable to drive. Obviously less power to weight than any modern vehicle, but fast enough for most things.
Vibes were non-existent other than normal diesel vibes at idle when waiting on traffic lights. The tdi IMO has really smoothed after a couple hundred miles. It was 94 degree, high humidity and no AC on Virginia side roads.
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  #10  
Old July 12th, 2016, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1of40 View Post
This past weekend I took my 110 on a 6+ hour round trip for the first time since the tdi swap. I've done this same trip many times with my NAS 90. The tdi, over the course of 3 hours, wore me out a bit. I was good and ready for a cold beer when we got to the top of the Mtn.

Does that have more to do with manual vs automatic transmission than the motor? I have experience the same, but think it is due to transmission. Suspension wise the 110 is way better.
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  #11  
Old July 12th, 2016, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1of40 View Post
This past weekend I took my 110 on a 6+ hour round trip for the first time since the tdi swap. I've done this same trip many times with my NAS 90. The tdi, over the course of 3 hours, wore me out a bit. I was good and ready for a cold beer when we got to the top of the Mtn.
Congrats Clay - so good to hear the drive was a success
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  #12  
Old July 12th, 2016, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xplorUtah View Post
Does that have more to do with manual vs automatic transmission than the motor? I have experience the same, but think it is due to transmission. Suspension wise the 110 is way better.
I sort of doubt it is mostly due to the manual but there is much more effort. There's definitely way more engine noise, especially from the turbo sucking air whenever I was north of 60-65mph. I should start looking for a proper air canister. The K&N is noisy on a long trip I've noticed.
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  #13  
Old July 12th, 2016, 02:39 PM
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FWIW, I went from a twin carb 3.5 to a 3.9 Efi in my '85 Ninety. I didn't consider diesel because of their noise. The V8i is much easier to live with (starts right up, even idle) but the power gain is minimal. Hence my plan to install an LC9.

The 200Tdi was a giant leap forward but that was a long time ago now.

YMMV.
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Old July 13th, 2016, 02:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1of40 View Post
I sort of doubt it is mostly due to the manual but there is much more effort. There's definitely way more engine noise, especially from the turbo sucking air whenever I was north of 60-65mph. I should start looking for a proper air canister. The K&N is noisy on a long trip I've noticed.
I tried this product (2 cans) under the seat box and floor panels but saw no real change in the interior noise. I used an iphone decibel app that provides a graph of the noise dB and compared before application and after at ~60mph. This was in a soft top exMOD w/ a 200Tdi and I didn't remove anything before applying it. I think I could've removed the tunnel cover and applied it better there.

The product goes on like waxoyl but dries quick. When I get back home, I think I'll try this under the hood and then just paint it NATO OD to match the color and see if that cuts down on the noise.
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  #15  
Old July 13th, 2016, 05:27 AM
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Neil:
Not at all surprised that that stuff failed to work. DEI stands for Darryl Issa that lying republican who tied Congress up in knots over Benghazi wasting millions of our dollars.

Was put on to this stuff by a friend in the marine industry. It definitely made a difference

http://www.defender.com/category.jsp...311&id=2349105
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  #16  
Old July 13th, 2016, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steinhnj View Post
I tried this product (2 cans) under the seat box and floor panels but saw no real change in the interior noise. I used an iphone decibel app that provides a graph of the noise dB and compared before application and after at ~60mph. This was in a soft top exMOD w/ a 200Tdi and I didn't remove anything before applying it. I think I could've removed the tunnel cover and applied it better there. The product goes on like waxoyl but dries quick. When I get back home, I think I'll try this under the hood and then just paint it NATO OD to match the color and see if that cuts down on the noise.
Thanks Neil. Let me know what you learn. What I was very pleased to learn last weekend is how the floors/tunnel/seatbox did not get hot. The tunnel was less of a shock as I layered a thin heat under the stock matting. The seatbox however is night and day compared to the v8's I've owned in the past.
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  #17  
Old July 13th, 2016, 11:44 AM
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I put Al's Heat and noise reducer in the front footwells, seatbox, and doors in my 109. Made a huge difference.

Just need to layer the crap out of it.
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  #18  
Old July 13th, 2016, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xplorUtah View Post
Does that have more to do with manual vs automatic transmission than the motor? I have experience the same, but think it is due to transmission. Suspension wise the 110 is way better.
What does the transmission have to do with anything? The manual should be superior for long distance journeys as you can put the power down with less drivetrain loss.

Defenders and Pre-Defenders are not too difficult/tiring to drive on long distance journeys, the series trucks on the same journey just feel tiring, and I think we have it tied to the drone/radiating noise. The last trip I drove in a series felt much better with those construction ear muff sound deadeners on.

Very noticable difference between my RHD manual steer soft top 110 and my Series 3 Hardtop with headliner and floor liner with insulated floors, hood and seatbox. The 110 is miles better for long journeys.
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  #19  
Old July 13th, 2016, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
Neil:
Not at all surprised that that stuff failed to work. DEI stands for Darryl Issa that lying republican who tied Congress up in knots over Benghazi wasting millions of our dollars.

Marine Noise / Temperature Insulation
Really?
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  #20  
Old July 13th, 2016, 12:03 PM
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When I ran series trucks only, I wished that I could have a nice cushy Defender. I remember thinking how far away 2009 was. I had my 90 on the ground in the US January 2 of that year.

The reduction in NVH was remarkable, you could actually talk inside the car. With AC, I can now ride on long trips in the summer time with the windows up which helps quiet things down immensely.

Still though...Silver Lake @ 550 miles each way, was a long haul, and not really worth the effort just to spend another 3 days up there where are you totally in the car the whole time. The older I get the less enjoyment I get from beating myself up on a long trip in an old farm truck. But the idea of showing up with a trailer doesn't really excite me either.

The petrol engines are much more laid back on the longer trips, even if you don't really hear the diesel clatter. But that probably has more to do with their improved torque output in the higher rpms (i.e increased total HP) power the low-revving diesels.

Not sure what I'm saying here but Ive done many 5-600 mile trips in both petrol and diesel LR's, 4 cylinder, 8 cylinder, turbo, SC, whatever. Soundproofing and having everything securely bolted down makes more of a difference than which engine you choose, at least on the highway. The D's will always be louder @ idle and low speed cruising. But, that sound has its own kind of magic which is part of why we subject ourselves to it. Right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnsD90 View Post
What does the transmission have to do with anything? The manual should be superior for long distance journeys as you can put the power down with less drivetrain loss.

Defenders and Pre-Defenders are not too difficult/tiring to drive on long distance journeys, the series trucks on the same journey just feel tiring, and I think we have it tied to the drone/radiating noise. The last trip I drove in a series felt much better with those construction ear muff sound deadeners on.

Very noticable difference between my RHD manual steer soft top 110 and my Series 3 Hardtop with headliner and floor liner with insulated floors, hood and seatbox. The 110 is miles better for long journeys.
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Present:
1960 SII 109"- "Red Square"
1984 90 Tdi- "Yamelo"
1988 RRC- "Chewbacca"
1987 RRC- "Chewy 2"
2008 RRS SC- "The Supersofa"

Past:
1959 SII 88"- "The Little Green Beastie" last seen in NY
1972 SIII 88"- "GreenHELL" now in NC
1988 90 "Eric the Half a Bee" half a truck, sold for parts
1991 RRC- never got a name- long since recycled
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