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  #61  
Old March 30th, 2006, 03:54 PM
Eric Siepmann
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Eric W. Siepmann
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No, It definetly illegal to import it right off the dealer floor so to speak. Does nto meet DOT requirements and therefore will most likely be seized and crushed.

EwS
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  #62  
Old March 30th, 2006, 05:14 PM
SYoung
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Steve
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There are ways to "mod" one into compliance, but it's horribly expensive- way beyond what it's really worth. I miss my 110 but holy cow- they really aren't good at anything and not worth what they sold for new when they were new. It's only because we can't have 'em that makes people want them.
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  #63  
Old March 30th, 2006, 05:21 PM
Eric Siepmann
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Eric W. Siepmann
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Sure. I could in theory go to the UK and order a CKD kit and ship it home. In IL I could re-assemble and register it as a kit car. But your still talking about huge dollars and a horrible exchange rate.

Just going to keep the NAS up to snuff.

EwS
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  #64  
Old April 3rd, 2006, 10:42 AM
SYoung
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Steve
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Siepmann
Sure. I could in theory go to the UK and order a CKD kit and ship it home. In IL I could re-assemble and register it as a kit car. But your still talking about huge dollars and a horrible exchange rate.

Just going to keep the NAS up to snuff.

EwS
No, you can't buy a CKD and call it a kit car- it's not a kit car, it's a production vehicle purchased in pieces. There's a subtle difference that bites ya in the booty...
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  #65  
Old April 3rd, 2006, 08:59 PM
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Jesse McCoy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYoung
No, you can't buy a CKD and call it a kit car- it's not a kit car, it's a production vehicle purchased in pieces. There's a subtle difference that bites ya in the booty...
Not in VA as I understand it...
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  #66  
Old April 3rd, 2006, 09:33 PM
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Scott
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYoung
No, you can't buy a CKD and call it a kit car- it's not a kit car, it's a production vehicle purchased in pieces. There's a subtle difference that bites ya in the booty...
Yeah, but how about if you used the ckd to buid up around an existing NAS firewall/VIN? Wouldnt that qualify as a kit with a valid legal donor? 'Course you would need the donor truck to start with.
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  #67  
Old April 4th, 2006, 08:12 AM
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David Marchand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYoung
No, you can't buy a CKD and call it a kit car- it's not a kit car, it's a production vehicle purchased in pieces. There's a subtle difference that bites ya in the booty...
What do you have to substantiate this?
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  #68  
Old April 4th, 2006, 11:53 AM
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Robert Ragland
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These CKD's remind me somewhat of the proverbial $44 Jeep in a crate. Some did sell for $44, but there was a whole lot more to that story.

Yeah, I know these were featured at the SEMA show. But, do they really exist in ready to order form? Or, is this more on the order of something you need to do through an authorized dealer, where the car is more or less built at some distribution point within the LR network. Can an individual actually order a 110 kit and receive it in crates?
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  #69  
Old April 4th, 2006, 01:34 PM
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CKDs in some form have always been available, you just have to know the right people who have been getting them.
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  #70  
Old April 4th, 2006, 01:39 PM
SYoung
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Steve
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Nope- you can't buy a CKD- it won't get past customs. It's not sold to individuals anyway- they are sold to authorized assembly sites. I have a customer who is one of the authorized assemblers in Pakistan.
It's not legal in VA- I know VA kit car laws intimately since I've built and licensed kit cars (and unsuccessfully tried to rebuild a SMART as a kit) in VA.
You can build a 110 around a donor bulkhead or chassis- if you really want to pay WAAAAY to much for something that will depreciate like a stone in a couple years when the early D110's start coming in as antiques. I'm guessing that there will be a LOT more re-VIN fraud starting about then too.

Quote:
What do you have to substantiate this?
It's all available online- go read the NHTSA and DOT guidelines for kit cars. Kit cars are PRODUCED AS A KIT and are NOT A PRODUCTION VEHICLE. Simply stated- a production vehicle in pieces doesn't make a kit car. A car produced ONLY as a kit and with a certificate of origin stating so is a kit car.

Funny you mention the $44 Jeep. I had one- but it was $1300 and yes, it came in a crate. Wish I still had it.
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  #71  
Old April 4th, 2006, 02:04 PM
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Robert Ragland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYoung
Nope- you can't buy a CKD- it won't get past customs. It's not sold to individuals anyway- they are sold to authorized assembly sites. I have a customer who is one of the authorized assemblers in Pakistan.
It's not legal in VA- I know VA kit car laws intimately since I've built and licensed kit cars (and unsuccessfully tried to rebuild a SMART as a kit) in VA.
You can build a 110 around a donor bulkhead or chassis- if you really want to pay WAAAAY to much for something that will depreciate like a stone in a couple years when the early D110's start coming in as antiques. I'm guessing that there will be a LOT more re-VIN fraud starting about then too.

It's all available online- go read the NHTSA and DOT guidelines for kit cars. Kit cars are PRODUCED AS A KIT and are NOT A PRODUCTION VEHICLE. Simply stated- a production vehicle in pieces doesn't make a kit car. A car produced ONLY as a kit and with a certificate of origin stating so is a kit car.

Funny you mention the $44 Jeep. I had one- but it was $1300 and yes, it came in a crate. Wish I still had it.
What you describe is more or less what I imagined. There aren't Defenders in crates shipped to the customer. Rather, semi-assembled vehicles are going to distribution centers and then on to dealers. I'm almost certain this helps cut down on labor costs and possibly export fees, duties, etc. The intention was never to supply enthusiasts with a weekend project.

As for the kit car route, I would first title the vehicle in a lenient state. Once some state has at least recognized it, the difficulties frequently decrease.
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  #72  
Old April 4th, 2006, 04:35 PM
SYoung
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Steve
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragland
What you describe is more or less what I imagined. There aren't Defenders in crates shipped to the customer. Rather, semi-assembled vehicles are going to distribution centers and then on to dealers. I'm almost certain this helps cut down on labor costs and possibly export fees, duties, etc. The intention was never to supply enthusiasts with a weekend project.

As for the kit car route, I would first title the vehicle in a lenient state. Once some state has at least recognized it, the difficulties frequently decrease.
They employ unskilled labour to assemble them- like a big tinker toy.

Titling in a lenient/ignorant state will get a title, but it still doesn't make it legal. I can slap a VIN plate on anything and trick the DMV- still doesn't make it right. The ones who get you ar ethe insurance companies. Have an accident- even a little one that isn't your fault- and you're now in the spotlight of multiple felonies if they see past your little game.

Just think if you rear ended some jerk in traffic- not even badly, but enough that they want to cash in a few bucks. The insurance company then tries everything to get out of paying out- so they inspect your vehicle hoping to cancel you for improper maintenance on the brakes or something, then discover your vintage Rover is really a modern one (which any moron can tell a 04 Defender from a 67 109). Now, it goes to court and the guy faking the neck injury has his ambulance chaser lawyer explain to a jury how you went to great lengths to import an illegal vehicle and filed fraudulent paperwork etc. Sure, the chance is slim that it will happen, but it can. It has, actually. Customs has taken and crushed many nice vehicles...
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  #73  
Old April 4th, 2006, 05:00 PM
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Robert Ragland
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No, I wouldn't advocate the VIN swap. But the kit car distinction to me is somewhat gray. I don't really see much difference between buying a Cobra kit or a Defender chasis and body. If it comes from the manufacturer, maybe. But, hypothetically speaking, if some third party put all the parts together, intentionally excluding the engine, that sounds like a kit.
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  #74  
Old April 4th, 2006, 05:51 PM
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Randy Black
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYoung
They employ unskilled labour to assemble them- like a big tinker toy.

Titling in a lenient/ignorant state will get a title, but it still doesn't make it legal. I can slap a VIN plate on anything and trick the DMV- still doesn't make it right. The ones who get you ar ethe insurance companies. Have an accident- even a little one that isn't your fault- and you're now in the spotlight of multiple felonies if they see past your little game.

Just think if you rear ended some jerk in traffic- not even badly, but enough that they want to cash in a few bucks. The insurance company then tries everything to get out of paying out- so they inspect your vehicle hoping to cancel you for improper maintenance on the brakes or something, then discover your vintage Rover is really a modern one (which any moron can tell a 04 Defender from a 67 109). Now, it goes to court and the guy faking the neck injury has his ambulance chaser lawyer explain to a jury how you went to great lengths to import an illegal vehicle and filed fraudulent paperwork etc. Sure, the chance is slim that it will happen, but it can. It has, actually. Customs has taken and crushed many nice vehicles...

I don't think most insurance companies "try everything to get out of paying". I think any reputable insurance company will look at the situation to be sure things are as they are supposed to be. With insurance fraud being what it is, they would be irresponsible to do otherwise, and the honest policy holders would end up taking up the slack for the dishonest policy holders.

I've never heard of an exclusion for "improper maintenance". I certainly agree with the idea that you would be in a heap of doo doo if anyone found out what the facts were.

I read somewhere recently that LR dropped the idea of a CKD in the US after the SEMA tease but I haven't heard why.

I "guess" you could build a trail only rig out of any kind of parts you can get your hands on?
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  #75  
Old April 4th, 2006, 08:42 PM
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Jesse McCoy
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Hmmm, guess there goes my idea to build a "kit" 110 here...

It's pretty sad that Rover has kinda abandoned us to the point this thread has 5 pages behind it and got resurrected after a long time of sleeping.

It seems like everyone wants to get one in, or build it, or whatever. Man, what a market.

http://www.southparkstudios.com/downloads/display_video.php?ep_number=506&ep_name=Cartmanlan d&vid=http://images.southparkstudios.com/media/video/506/commercial2.mov&vid_name=Check%20out%20the%20all%2 0new%20CARTMANLAND!%20(entire%20commercial)
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  #76  
Old April 4th, 2006, 10:25 PM
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There was a short section about Land Rover dropping the CKD idea in the february LRM i think. It was and article talking about Rovers bad decisions or something.
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  #77  
Old April 5th, 2006, 04:31 PM
Eric Siepmann
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Eric W. Siepmann
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I think most large insurace companies are on the level most of the time. But Steve's assumption of an illegally imported truck bears weight. Most policies have clauses that void the insurance. Such as violation of Fed. and or State law. Rarely a state law will trigger this but there have been cases.

As far as importing, as much as I dream of a 110 or 90, I just can't see it happening for me. I am way too lazy to import one even it it were legal....

EwS
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  #78  
Old April 6th, 2006, 05:18 AM
Kev Baldwin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billakris
There was a short section about Land Rover dropping the CKD idea in the february LRM i think. It was and article talking about Rovers bad decisions or something.
The feature writen by an ex LRNA top man, said Land Rover got cold feet over the CKD kit idea, when Ford's lawyers pointed out they would likely run into trouble for all of the same reasons as has been pointed out in the posts in this thread! With too many grey areas Land Rover decided it just wasn't worth the risk.
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