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View Poll Results: You going to MAR 2011?
I'm going 20 46.51%
Would go if they moved the location 9 20.93%
Not going 14 32.56%
Voters: 43. You may not vote on this poll

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  #61  
Old July 25th, 2011, 05:50 PM
dchapman
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Daniel Chapman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rugbier View Post
Dan,

The officers info is incorrect as you know, I have posted on ROAV and called some Board Members to correct it.

I am out of town, if they do not correct it by the time I am back, I will make the change myself.

Hopefully ROAV makes it easier and correct the situation themselves
I know it is. You know it is. ROAV knows it is. Everyone knows it is.

I posted that just to show the kind of attention to details ROAV displays. It's public record and anyone can go view this online on the State Corporation Commission database. Gus left ROAV in March of 2011. This information was not sent to the SCC until mid-May of 2011, months after Gus left the ROAV position. Yet ROAV filed this paperwork anyway. ROAV was late, as usual, filing this information with the state and occurred a late fee. That's how they do things.

But I'm an asshole if I say anything about it.
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  #62  
Old July 25th, 2011, 06:30 PM
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Dan, So why don't you start your own LR club? Or get a core group of people that want to. I imagine there are enough people to do so.
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  #63  
Old July 25th, 2011, 06:37 PM
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FYI.....I can tell you that most, if not all of my clients when I was in public accounting, had incorrect officer listings. The states are lucky if it ever gets updated and filed timely. Its pretty trivial.
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  #64  
Old July 25th, 2011, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Wolf Fabrication View Post
Dan, So why don't you start your own LR club? Or get a core group of people that want to. I imagine there are enough people to do so.
Why do we need a club at all?
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  #65  
Old July 25th, 2011, 06:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dchapman

Why do we need a club at all?
Because people want to belong to something and get the sticker and tshirt. I would assume an "organization" has the collective power to organize larger events and bring a reputable national event to the east coast.
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  #66  
Old July 25th, 2011, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by NoVaKevin View Post
FYI.....I can tell you that most, if not all of my clients when I was in public accounting, had incorrect officer listings. The states are lucky if it ever gets updated and filed timely. Its pretty trivial.
Yes, it is trivial. But it's someones job within the club to update this information annually and on time. Just like it's someones job to take meeting minutes, and keep accurate accounting records. But no one within ROAV does this. ROAV has not filed a tax return in 13 years, maybe longer. ROAV has not paid sales tax on merchandise sold in just as long. It's someones job to take care of all this. If they decide to accept the nomination to do this job then they should do it and they should be held accountable.

But that's not the way it is.

Does anyone disagree? Am I the only one who see's things this way?

------ Follow up post added July 25th, 2011 08:06 PM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Fabrication View Post
Because people want to belong to something and get the sticker and tshirt. I would assume an "organization" has the collective power to organize larger events and bring a reputable national event to the east coast.
I understand what you're getting at and I see where you're going with it. So why not just join Virginia 4-Wheel Drive Association?

It's because you want a Land Rover exclusive club. You bought a Land Rover and you want to see other Land Rovers in action doing some of the same type stuff you like to do with your Land Rover. Am I right?

Looking over some of the post-trail/trip reports, you like doing some moderate wheeling and camping. Correct? Is that all you like to do with your Land Rover? Or are you interested in using your Land Rover in other ways, too? Some people like to go rock crawling in their Land Rover. Others like to take extended trips in their Rover to other states. Some people like driving their Rovers on the beach. Are they wrong for wanting to do this? Or is the only thing Land Rovers are good for is moderate wheeling and roof-top-tent camping?

I think you would agree that Rovers are good for many different things. I think that's the reason people join clubs; they like to learn about what others do with their Land Rovers. Over time these people fall into a category. Some like overlanding; some like rock crawling; some like mall shopping; some just like to camp; some like to fish; some like the mud... these people go on to build their trucks the way they want them. Some are down-right dumb, others are pretty fucking cool; some don't work so well while others are kickass.

Lets look at the National Rally for a second since you brought it up. You would like to see a National Rally type event on the east coast. There must be something about the National Rally that interests you. If all the Rovers looked the same would the National still be cool? If everyone at the National followed each other single-file down the same roads would it still be fun? Or do you like the National because they offer a verity of options to take part in?

I've been to the National Rally in CO before and I enjoyed it. I spent 3-days on the trails doing the type of wheeling I enjoy the most - rock crawling. CO had some amazing trails and it's very much different from east coast wheeling. It was pretty fucking awesome, actually. However, if rock crawling was not my thing, I could have gone on some more scenic trials. Some trails went to 13,000 feet through Telluride; or I could have taken some fire roads through some canyons and maybe even went repelling or swimming.

The point is, the National Rally does not only cater to the moderate wheelers and camper, it caters to a verity of people.

The east coast equivalent of the National Rally is the MAR event. Lets look at MAR 2011 for a minute. Where is it? The same place as last year, correct? Willow Hill farm. This property is what, 300 acres? 300 acres is a big difference from the property the National Rally has to work with. But what does this 300 acres offer? I really do not know as I have not been there. Everyone tells me the camping is great, but that's about it. I hear they have a few trails, but nothing hard. I also hear they had 231 trucks last year and the trails were jammed packed like a mall parking lot on black-Friday. I hear there was a mud pit down the street. I hear they had some shitty bands playing loudly all weekend. I hear they had pony rides.

Did you attend this MAR event? If so, why? Was it because of all the Rovers that were going to be there? Did you want to see what others have done to their trucks? Did you go to get drunk?

When people sign up for this type of stuff they typically have a reason. That's why they join clubs, they're wanting something to do. It might be a father wanting to take their son out for some camping and off-road driving and bonding. Dad might want to give their son some memories and something to talk about. Dad joined this club for something to do with his family other than staring at the X-Box all night. Or whatever...maybe he wanted to meet girls who liked Rovers, or wanted to meet other people who mud bog. Dad joined this club to meet like-minded people who he enjoyed.

Does the current MAR location have what many are looking for? Does ROAV offer this type activity to these people? Or is it the same old event year-after-year with nothing new?

Here is what I'm getting at. In order for a club to be successful they have to offer verity. You don't eat at the same restaurant every night and you don't camp in the same location every week. The people who organize the National Rally understand this and that's why they switch things up yearly. The old earls Pond property was successful because of the rain, IMO. That place was fun when it rained and when no rain came in 2007 it was actually pretty boring - there was nothing to do.

So here ROAV sits for the 3rd year in a row with a shitty venue. No trails, no excitement, nothing to do. I don't know what the event will be like this year, but we'll soon see. I can count on one hand the number of people going. In past years we had over 30 trucks in our group alone. But the reason the people I know are not going is because the event does not offer them anything. The venue does not offer them anything and the club does not offer them anything.

So if you're going to have an organization trying to put forth a collective effort to achieve a common goal, you have got to offer, and be open to, verity. One person cannot offer all of this. You asked me why I don't just start my own club....and the answer is because one person can't. It takes a lot of like-minded people who are open to a verity of different ways. And that's the problem with ROAV, they just will not listen to their fucking members. Hell, they will not even reply to them! If you even want to see a National Rally type event on the east coast, ROAV has the best chance to make that happen right now. But it's not going to happen if all you do is agree with what ROAV has been doing. If you want to see a larger National Rally type event out here, you have got to get these moron to change venues to some place that offers more verity to everyone, and you have got to vote in a group of officers who are willing to interact with the membership. I thought for sure Doug, John, Dan and Gus would have been these people and that's one reason why I renewed my membership after the elections this year. But I was wrong, they are just like the other close-minded morons they replaced.

In order for ROAV, or any club, to be successful, they need a goal to work towards. A mission. I bet if you asked any of the Board members what their mission was, you would not even get a response. You're not worthy enough for a response. It's not your club.
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  #67  
Old July 25th, 2011, 09:35 PM
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Well said, Chapman for President!
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  #68  
Old July 25th, 2011, 10:04 PM
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Dan,
Are you planning on running another event at the cove this year?
Inquiring minds want to know!
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  #69  
Old July 26th, 2011, 10:54 AM
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No, no plans this year. John Tackley is gone from roav so I have no motivation to do an anti-mar.

But if someone else does it I will come. Could probably get 60 trucks easy this year.
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  #70  
Old July 26th, 2011, 09:50 PM
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Not trying to instigate an anti-MAR. Just looking to attend a MAR like event (LR enthusiasts, social events, family atmosphere, vendors, etc...) but with 4-wheeling. The event venue would be a huge plus if it cut down on the commute from the NYC area too...but that last part on location was just selfish of me.

WOW. I think I took a huge 180...I used to be a Ban Dan kind of guy and ironically now find myself jumping on the Dan Wagon.

All cliches aside, I believe Dan makes many valid points when it comes to what MAR attendees are looking for....that I happen to agree with. It may make sense for the MAR BOD to conduct a survey of it's members, and past members, to inquire what we want in an event...helping remove subjectivity from the equation.

I also support Dan with the assertion that YOUR silence is an indication that you're in agreement with the decisions being made. However, if you're sitting on the fence, contemplating not attending MAR this year, you should speak up...privately or publicly.

I chose publicly to try and help rally the troops for change...nevertheless, please speak up either way. Every member should be heard.
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  #71  
Old July 26th, 2011, 10:36 PM
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Not a member. But from what I have read over the various boards the BOD has not done anything for transparency, ie accounting, meetings etc. People keep talking about this and that site (events) but the BOD has not communicated the reasons for going with this or that site.
I will say that in my professional experience you can not always satisfy everyone. But this does not have that feel to it.
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  #72  
Old July 27th, 2011, 05:43 AM
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Realistically if it were not for MAR I don't believe ROAV would have that many members.

You figure that you have to become a member for their insurance requirements so you are not really joining at will but because you must. I would like to know the numbers of out of state "members" and MAR only attendees vs the people that join because they want to.

I know a few people that were very strong supporters that have said that this is the last chance for ROAV at MAR and think if it flops there will be a new fall destination for next year.

I have always been a supporter of their work but the way they are going is a downward spiral IMHO.
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  #73  
Old July 27th, 2011, 08:01 AM
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For the last three years MAR has been less than what a lot of people wanted. I think the club tried to change things up with a little with less late night crazy wheeling and what that was all about. I must admit they achieved that goal! The problem was they went way overboard. I do believe that if we still had the use of Pearls Pond we wouldn't be having this discussion. But the loss of Pearls left the club searching for a good location. This has what has brought the club to its current situation. It just might be time for us to realize that MAR will not be what it was five years ago. If you think that, then who is going to step in and do another Kick Ass MAR, of old, style event? If you look for private property then you start to limit locations and options. If you decide to use a for profit location then you too are limited to a few locations. I do think the possibility of finding a private property that would accept a large crowd is getting harder and harder to find.
I hope that the ROAV board has a wonderful MAR planned with plenty of things to do, but haven't heard a thing yet.
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  #74  
Old July 27th, 2011, 08:44 AM
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which is why the Cove seems like an excellent venue until a suitable property can be identified and cultivated. i realize ROAV did Cove for their Spring venue and Halloween last year, so not sure why they are so against Cove for MAR? Seems like an excellent option for the large crowd that MAR brings with something for everyone. No work weekends required, onsite facilities, no public roads to trail heads, night time wheeling, everything.
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  #75  
Old July 27th, 2011, 08:53 AM
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Damn, where were all you people at the last 3-years when we were going to the Cove?

Still nothing but crickets from ROAV. I guess the "leaders" are working hard for their members and have no time to reply.

If MAR is a flook this year, I say we start planning a 2012 event for August. Something before the kids have to go back to school, and once the July heat dies down. If not August, maybe May.
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  #76  
Old July 27th, 2011, 09:12 AM
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I know there is a Club ready to do a MAR like event to suit all our needs/ expectations that is waiting for ROAV to announce the location officially.

If at the same place as last year, well a NEW MAR will be created, AKAIK the MAR it is not a copyrighted name nor it can be, so the will call it MAR as well
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  #77  
Old July 27th, 2011, 09:13 AM
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There are a few clubs and individuals looking at events and trying to do something every month. The N/E Guys are working hard, SCARR, Uhharrie, Ohio has the Wilds which is a good event and will be better next year because the organizers listen to the attendees. ROTR spring and fall which would be an awesome event to be held at the Cove the last week of Sept instead of Nov.(Just a thought)

I know the Vendors at MAR are getting pissed with the cost and the lack of attendance.
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  #78  
Old July 27th, 2011, 09:25 AM
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I like the idea of a "MAR" at the Wilds.
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  #79  
Old July 27th, 2011, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pushngo View Post
There are a few clubs and individuals looking at events and trying to do something every month. The N/E Guys are working hard, SCARR, Uhharrie, Ohio has the Wilds which is a good event and will be better next year because the organizers listen to the attendees. ROTR spring and fall which would be an awesome event to be held at the Cove the last week of Sept instead of Nov.(Just a thought)

I know the Vendors at MAR are getting pissed with the cost and the lack of attendance.
is that from personal experience?
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  #80  
Old July 27th, 2011, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by draaronr View Post
is that from personal experience?
Not so much me, I bring my own tent and other than my time I am not overly exposed. They have always been good about setting up an area but some people/ businesses travel twice as far as me rent tents staff it and just are not getting a return Return=exposure

------ Follow up post added July 27th, 2011 10:05 AM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by dchapman View Post
I like the idea of a "MAR" at the Wilds.
I think the Wilds has its own idenity we need a NEW MAR run by a group that wants to make it happen.
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