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View Poll Results: You going to MAR 2011?
I'm going 20 46.51%
Would go if they moved the location 9 20.93%
Not going 14 32.56%
Voters: 43. You may not vote on this poll

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  #41  
Old July 13th, 2011, 06:41 AM
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yea i liked oakridge, get rid of the flowers and the grey poupon
lol!!
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  #42  
Old July 13th, 2011, 09:58 AM
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We will be at Mar this year. Donnie and I have been working on the menu this summer. This will be my ninth year in a row and wouldn't miss it! Bringing the wives and kids for the day. Trails were weak but you have to be creative, just drive them in reverse gear. Mud bog was tons of fun.
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  #43  
Old July 13th, 2011, 02:02 PM
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Oakridge is awesome. Great trails and it's a nice place. I really like what they have going on over there.

Oakridge is a great spot for a Jeep event. Jeep guys are really into guided trail rides. I'm not sure that I've ever been to a Jeep event where they did not have guided trails. It's a Jeep thing.

Oakridge is no good for a MAR-type event. It's already been proven. The cost alone is a deal breaker. In 2008, ROAV paid Oakridge Estates $17,722 just to rent the property. I'm not sure what all that included, but I've heard rumor that it's $15k just to use a field for camping and to have trail access. In addition to the Oakridge fees, you have to pay a group of Jeepers, Trail Experience, a fee to guide the trails for you since there is no open trail riding. In 2008 ROAV paid these guys $8,855, plus I think ROAV fed them the entire weekend.

In 2008, ROAV had 231 registered trucks at Oakridge. If you had to pay Trail Experience their fee, and then give Oakridge Estates another $15k, your bill would be $23,885 before ever seeing a trail. That's no restrooms, no showers, no vendor tents, no food, no drinks, no flowers, no insurance, and no wrist bands.... If MAR would attract 231 trucks again to this venue, you're already looking at $103 per truck to break even.

In 2008 ROAV spent $88,181.36 on MAR. That equates to $381.74 per truck. ROAV charged $100.00 per truck. Now, I'm no corporate business owner and I did not stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, but something is just not adding up here.

Total revenue collected in 2008 was $65,400.57. This was from MAR, the Summer Rally, the ABM, dues, and all merchandise sales. They spent $88,181.36 on MAR alone. ROAV had to cash in a $30,000 certificate of deposit just to climb out of the red, leaving them with $2,889.13 in the bank going into 2009.

Even if ROAV cut out all of the bullshit like pony rides, wrist bands, flowers, bands, Bill Burke..... they still could not make Oakridge work.

There are several events at Oakridge a year, though. So if you enjoy being on a guided trail ride schedule, there is opportunity to run trails there.

IMO, what made MAR cool is you had the ability to run trails as you wish. This is how Texas Rovers runs their SCARR events, too. When you're ready, you just hit the trails. You can run the trails alone, or you can run them with a group. You can run trails at night. You can run a trail, run back to camp for lunch, and then run another trail if you'd like. You're not tied to some schedule. This is what sets MAR and SCARR apart from the Jeep events.

I don't know what's up with the Willow Hill property and why ROAV wants to go back there again this year for MAR. I have yet to hear one person say the trails were good. No one! No one in this thread, no one on Dweb, and no one on the current ROAV Board of Directors. Doug does not like the trails at Willow Hill. JohnK does not think they're good trails. Gus, when he was on the BOD's for 5-minutes, did not like the property. So I do not understand why ROAV is going back there. There has to be a reason, so what is it?

The funny part of the whole thing is no one at ROAV will tell anyone why Willow Hill was selected again. I've asked and have not gotten an answer. Gus has asked and cannot get an answer. Others have asked and no one can get an answer. I've asked in person, on the phone, and on the ROAV BBS, and no one can tell me why Willow Hill is attractive. So I'll ask again here as I know the ROAV crew is watching this thread because Doug sent out an email to the other BOD's linking them to this thread.

So, Doug Crowther, John Keeney, Mike McCaig, Dan Rao, Sparky Harcourt, Mark Garrenton, and the super secret Gus replacement, Doug's brother, Catlett, what's up? We know you are watching this thread, so why is Willow Hill so special? Many people here who claim they're going to MAR regardless of location say trails are not too important to them. In past years the ROAV BOD's claimed that the Cove was too "hardcore" for a MAR event, yet you guys must feel a little differently about it since ROAV has had two ill planned and executed events at the Cove since that time. You guys know the property now and understand there are trails available for beginner drivers and stock trucks; more so than even the current Willow Hill location. In addition to those beginner trails the Cove offers better camping, 2,500 more acres of trails, better location for people traveling from the North, South and West, and the overhead of the event would be less money. ROAV would not need to pay $7,000 for port-a-potties and port-a-potty cleaning; $8,000 for tents; who knows what for property rental and clean-up.... So why not offer a property that has a lot more diversity to suit a larger number of club members?

Now, I know the answer to this question already. The ROAV BOD's have this mental block in their heads that the Cove is too expensive for MAR. I've heard this before, even before ROAV dropped $88,000 on MAR in 2008. But what the BOD's can't explain is "why". Here is how it breaks down:
-The Cove charges $13.00 a day to camp; next week ROAV is going to Rausch Creek where camping is $25.00 per day. The Cove is cheaper.
-The Cove charges $15.00 per day for wheeling; Rausch Creek charges $35.00 per day for trucks, and $7.00 per day for passengers, PLUS a membership fee. The Cove is cheaper.
-Each year ROAV rents port-a-John's that total over $6,000; the Cove has their own John's spread out over the property, plus an additional 8 flushing toilets. (not to mention hot showers)
-ROAV rents tents for vendors to set up in, some costing as much as $300.00each; the Cove offers large shelters for $10.00 a day, or cabins for $90.00 a day.

So personally, I do not understand what's so costly about the Cove. Willow Hill may not be charging an entrance or camping fee so that makes a difference. However, ROAV makes up for it in tent charges, port-a-potties fees, and clean-up/maintenance.

Some on here have mentioned that Oakridge and Willow Hill are a good place to bring the family. So is the Cove. The cove has a swimming area with a beach, hiking and biking trails, fishing, volley ball courts, and the most interesting thing to kids other than bathrooms, fire pits at each individual camp site.

If ROAV would take the $4,500 sponsorship money that Land Rover Richmond gives them, the cash Will Tillery gives them, plus what ever donations they're auctioning off - plus the savings I've mentioned above about the bathrooms and tents - and use that money to off-set the admission fees the Cove has, the Cove would be a killer event. It offers more in every single aspect from family to trails.

Yes, the Cove would have a year, maybe two, of growing pains. That's ROAV's fought for having shitty events the last few years and flip-flopping venues. But once ROAV gets back into a groove with a good property MAR will come back to what it once was. But there is no sense in spending all this time, and money, improving the Willow Hill property just to get kicked off of it down the road like what's happened two times before.
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  #44  
Old July 13th, 2011, 02:46 PM
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Dan are you getting smarter with age? The cove is where we should be. It makes total sense for a group of our size. Start the push for 2012 maybe no Obama and MAR at the Cove???
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  #45  
Old July 13th, 2011, 03:14 PM
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I can't do it alone, Rob. Been trying for years. People need to speak up.

I've got email messages from ROAV BOD's, current and past, who say one thing and then act out on another. Doug is one of them who likes to talk out of two sides of his mouth. But when it comes down to it, the Old Guard makes all the calls for the "club". There is absolutely no member input considered, despite what the BOD's are telling you.

Just check out the ROAV meeting minutes to see what I mean.
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  #46  
Old July 13th, 2011, 03:50 PM
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Dan,

Are you back on the pain killers? what minutes?
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  #47  
Old July 13th, 2011, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Rugbier View Post
Dan,

Are you back on the pain killers? what minutes?
Exactly.
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  #48  
Old July 13th, 2011, 04:05 PM
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Dan,

Are you back on the pain killers? what minutes?
Thats what he meant?
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  #49  
Old July 13th, 2011, 06:46 PM
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Dana Hammersley
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Hey I'm all for the Cove less than 2 hous from home. Great wheeling, great camping, awesome lake and scenery. You get our votes.
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  #50  
Old July 13th, 2011, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Hammertime View Post
You get our votes.
Talking to the wrong guy, Homie.

Make a post on the ROAV BBS telling them what you think. It's not that they're going to acknowledge you there, but you can at least say you tried to reach out to them.

Then again, when I post there I'm "attacking" them, lol.
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  #51  
Old July 13th, 2011, 07:45 PM
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Glad you got that off your mind Dan! ROAV should change to ROAsouthernV.
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  #52  
Old July 22nd, 2011, 01:21 PM
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Nothing but crickets.

It's funny, some of the ROAV Directors/Officers voted in the poll, but did not address any of the questions asked, or attempt to clarify what's going on for MAR.

68 days till MAR. No preparations as of yet.

Just for comparison, Solihull Society had registration open and the entire event planned for the National Rally on March 6th of this year.

It's no wonder why MAR has lost over 50% of their attendance since 2005, and why the National Rally now holds the "largest Land Rover rally in North America" title now.
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  #53  
Old July 25th, 2011, 08:29 AM
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Well we just came back from the Cove. We got to talking the the guy in charge and asked him why ROAV does not have MAR here? Here is what he said. Quote ROAV had scheduled a MAR event there 3 years ago. And that he reserved the alotted dates. Those date came and passed, no phone call saying they were canceling the dates no anything. He said it left a bad taste in his mouth. Which who could blame him. Seems the American way anymore no one takes responsiblity anymore. If you can get away withit it's alright. Thats BULLSHIT. At least have the BALLS to call and Cancel. I have my own service business and if a customer bails on me without a call or a good explanation thier going to have a had time getting me to come back. And if I think I am going to be even 5 minute late I am calling to say so. There is not many good wheeling places left so the last thing you want to do is piss them off, What ASSHOLE's. And as far as setting date to wheel the same time as other groups on purpose thats BuLLshit too! Grow up get over it. I know I probably pissed a few people off. But you know everything I said is true. The Offroading crowd is small enough the last thing we need to do is split it up and alienate people.
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  #54  
Old July 25th, 2011, 09:53 AM
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Wonder who set that up??

Crickets??
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  #55  
Old July 25th, 2011, 02:13 PM
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Daniel Chapman
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Originally Posted by Hammertime View Post
Well we just came back from the Cove. We got to talking the the guy in charge and asked him why ROAV does not have MAR here? Here is what he said. Quote ROAV had scheduled a MAR event there 3 years ago. And that he reserved the alotted dates. Those date came and passed, no phone call saying they were canceling the dates no anything. He said it left a bad taste in his mouth. Which who could blame him. Seems the American way anymore no one takes responsiblity anymore. If you can get away withit it's alright. Thats BULLSHIT. At least have the BALLS to call and Cancel. I have my own service business and if a customer bails on me without a call or a good explanation thier going to have a had time getting me to come back. And if I think I am going to be even 5 minute late I am calling to say so. There is not many good wheeling places left so the last thing you want to do is piss them off, What ASSHOLE's. And as far as setting date to wheel the same time as other groups on purpose thats BuLLshit too! Grow up get over it. I know I probably pissed a few people off. But you know everything I said is true. The Offroading crowd is small enough the last thing we need to do is split it up and alienate people.
I did that, Dana. Per the request of the 2007 ROAV Board of Directors. I was asked by the Board to reserve the Cove for MAR. They gave me the dates to reserve and asked me to handle it. So I did.

Later on around May of 2008 (don't quote me on an exact date), the 2008 Board of Directors changed things up. I asked MANY MANY times what was going on, but no one would talk to me. If you reference the Dweb thread on MAR 2008, you can see where myself as well as Garrett Porderfield and JB McClure asked repeatedly what was going on for MAR 2008. No one would answer us (this was before the time for the ROAV BBS). I made phone calls, sent e-mails, etc... but I could not get a reply out of anyone. One of the Board members lived right down the street from me at the time and I went to his house to ask questions personally, but still NEVER got a solid answer. Once I made the reservations on behalf of ROAV, I was cut out of the loop.

Once MAR was announced to be held at Oakridge estates in 2008, that's when some of the shit hit the fan. My name was on the promissory letter from the Cove to ROAV. I had brain-raped Daniel and Willis at the Cove for all the information the ROAV Board of Directors asked me to get. This went on for several days. I felt like I owed the Cove some support for their work. In 2008 we did in fact go to the Cove for the first Anti-MAR (Mike McCaig gave it that name). We had about 35-40 trucks present and over 60 people. This was a far cry from what the Cove was expecting, but I did what I could. I did tell Willis that ROAV would not be bringing their MAR event to the Cove as soon as I could, but since ROAV would not volunteer that information until the 11th hour, I was a little late in doing so because I had no idea what the fuck was going on.

We returned to the Cove for 2 more years giving them as much business as possible.

I'm also a little misguided by your tone in your email. Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but when you say this:

Quote:
And as far as setting date to wheel the same time as other groups on purpose thats BuLLshit too! Grow up get over it. I know I probably pissed a few people off. But you know everything I said is true. The Offroading crowd is small enough the last thing we need to do is split it up and alienate people.
...I get the feeling you're talking about me. If you are, just come out and say it. Don't be a pussy.

------ Follow up post added July 25th, 2011 02:21 PM ------

Alex Grice
Dan - That site near Winchester sure looks promising...we've considered
Oak Ridge (my wife graduated high school with the landowner...he's made
a shitload of money in the junk recycling and waste-hauling bidness....)
but they've always wanted too much for a site fee. For the jeepers
crowd with a thousands of vehicles, that's not too bad, but it has been
cost-prohibitive for us. Then again, we've made a bit of money over the
years....

Can you send me any contact info on the place? Like landowner or an
idea of their site fees? Or a location? Mike McCaig and myself - two
of the five remaining founders of ROAV -are heading to the mountains
this weekend for a bit of off-road camping. We could detour a bit to
the north....

As the official "club historian," I'm a permanent member of the board of
directors, so I still have some say in things.... Pearl's Pond is
great, but loosing full use of the island - either through flooding or
re-planting - puts a real crimp on things. There's not a lot of flat
land for camping.

Cheers




Daniel wrote:

>Yeah, you'll quickly learn the land owners are "different". Not too good of
>people to work with, but the guys at Big Dogs Productions seem to have an
>"in" with those guys. Also, in talking with Garrett Porderfield (he does
>off-road training at the Cove monthly) Big Dogs may be able to get ROAV a
>great deal on insurance and may be willing to do a lot of the legg work on
>promoting and planning the event. Might be worth a phone call.


8/14/07

Alex Gracie Thanks for the reply...we never got around to getting up there...but it
sure seems like a good choice for the MAR in '08. Talked with the
McDowell fellow who seemed pretty nice, though. I've organized quite a
few rallies, including the 50th at Greek Peak in NY and many of the MARs
- before I got burnt out by the work. Now I prefer to chill at the
events...I'm gettin' too old for that sort of foolishness....

Camped over the weekend at Davis Run near Sounding Knob in Highland
County. Pretty good weekend with *great* weather - actually cool at night!

Great time - until I developed a death wobble on the way home - most
likely the panhard rod bushings - one of which is nearly new. If'n I
kept it under 45 mph, all was well. It took a loooong time to get home
not driving the super-slab....

Cheers


9/24/07

Jeff
Sending this note again; I dont think it went through the 1st time.


Ok all,
Daniel Chapman is in touch with the Cove and October 2,3,4,5 2008 is ours if we want it.
Daniel will get back with them later to confirm.
They require $37/attendee for camping and 20% of our admission price. This cost does not include the insurance policy.
Daniel will put together a short Microsoft Movie to be aired during this year's MAR highlighting next year's 60th Celebration/MAR at The Cove.
I've put Daniel's email on this em.
---Jeff---



9/24/07
Paul Prosser
Sounds Great.



Paul J. Prosser

Business Manager



9/24/07

John Tackly
Looks Good...



9/24/07

Lance Holvoet
Sounds good to me, who was tasked with getting LRNA aboard if anybody?

FSC Holvoet



9/24/07

John Tackley
East Botha of LRR pledged to contact LRNA thru his LRNA dealer
rep...James was to follow up, collect sponsor check, etc..



9/24/07

James Dearden
OK OK -- I need help on this -- I am in Bristol VA all week on a massive
job -- and just swamped until next weekend.

Volunteer?



9/24/07

LeGault
Sounds good to me. . . if everyone agrees, let's book it and be done!



9/25/07

Eric
Sounds like a plan!

Eric



9/25/07

Mike McCaig
That's great that we can have it on those dates! Let's do it!

A couple of questions: Do they require a deposit? Do they need a signiture on a contract? It would be nice to have something in writing from them. I'm sure you see that the National Rally is already hitting all the boards with their adverts so we should come up with a press release and and a letter to potential sponsors ASAP. If we can get some folks together to go see the site let me know I'd like to go along.

Thanks!
Mike McCaig



9/25/07

Dchapman
To answer a few of Mike's questions.

The Cove does not require any sort of deposit. Actually, things seem
pretty lax as far as The Cove management goes. I've met both Daniel and
Willis before in person. Both seem to be "ok" guys but I think it depends
on what day of the week you catch them on. So, I think something in
writing from The Cove would be beneficial to ROAV.

One thing Willis was not very clear on was the rental of the property. He
said for the 3 nights of camping, we're looking at $37.00 per adult and
$6.00 per child under 12; this includes the "land management fee" for the
trails. In addition, The Cove wants "something like 10% to 20% of what the
organizers charge". 10 to 20% is a big difference, in my opinion. So that
in it's self I think should be in writing.

The only concern I have is the camping/per person fee. $37.00 per person
does not sound so bad. But, times that by 3 or 4 in a family and I can
already see the complaints. A family of 3 would cost $111.00 plus the ROAV
membership of $20.00, the event fee and 3 t-shirts and you're over
$200.00. There was no mention of a fee for off-site lodgers and 3-day
trail passes. Now, taking that into consideration, when I went to the
National Rally, my registration was $40.00 which included a t-shirt, and
then I paid $240.00 for a hotel room making the total event fee $280.00. I
did not hear too many people complaining at the National.

Touching on the National once more. The whole time I was there, besides
breakfast and a sandwich of lunch, I did not buy dinner either of the 4
nights I was there. That means a lot. The sponsorship the National Rally
has was awesome to say the least. No reason MAR cannot have this same
sponsorship. Just as an example this is how their night schedule worked:

Thursday night - Buffet style cocktail party. Rolled cold sandwiches
(tortilla with chicken or roast beef), chips and salsa, warm smoked
salmon, and veggies and dip. They also had a bar set-up, we received 2
free drink tickets and the rest of your drinks were cash. This was a
non-specific vendor sponsored event. I think part of the vendors
registration went toward this special event. I enjoyed this night. This
allowed the attendees to meet and greet not only the vendors but to meet
each other under one roof/tent.

Friday night - Hamburgers and Hot Dogs, chips, potato salad. Beer kegs
were sponsored by Off-Rovering. Food and drinks were again sponsored by
all the various vendors. This was called "Vendors Night". All the vendors
had their tables set up in one area located in a big field. I guess they
had about 15 vendor "booths".

Saturday night - Buffet style again. Roast beef, mac and cheese, green
beans, more hamburger and hot dogs, etc.... This was sponsored by LRNA.
Afterwords they had their raffle which raised ~$4500.00, all of which was
donated to an area non-profit organization. The left over beer from
Off-Rovering was also available.

What I'm getting at is if ROAV can get more sponsorship, I think ROAV
could lower their part of the admission fee and overall have a lot less
expenses. I asked Doug Evilsizor from LRL magazine what he would like to
see at future MAR events, and this is his response:

"i would love to do a LRL Lounge event like we did in montrose. but have
to have a venue that works. the current MAR location (coupled with the
unrelenting rain) isn't very friendly for a good evening.


and i can't really just put up a tent at the venue, the point of the
Lounge is to provide benefit to subscribers & supporters rather than
giving lots of stuff to freeloaders. so it must be a close, accessible,
but a off site location.


but i am willing to do a lot more at MAR by way of support. from
publishing a special MAR edition (or insert) to brining in bands & booze,
to organizing photographers at key points on the trail to provide shots to
attendees, to simple cash. the thing I need is circulation and subscribers
(as well as advertisers). if there is a way to wrap a subscription in with
every MAR attendee or ROAV member, that really helps me."

LRL really stood out at the National Rally. Although I've always felt the
LRL magazine was lame, at best, Doug really is a Rover Head of another
level. At his Lounge Event, Doug rented a Bed and Breakfast to host the
off-site cocktail party. At the party, Doug had Sky Vodka in attendance
giving away free flavored vodka drinks, as well as Mountain Khakis giving
away free pants and cigars. He also had a silent auction which included a
set of tires, Land Rover gears bags, art, cigars, and about a dozen other
things. The profits of the auction went to a charity who was also in
attendance. Side events like this take away from the "rough neck camping
in the woods" most of our wives do not enjoy, and add a sense of class to
the night. If that's not your cup of tea, you don't have to go. But I
think it really does appeal to a lot of Rover owners. Besides that, it
gets the vendor in the door and his donations to ROAV helps to lower
attendance cost.

I would encourage some of the ROAV members to gather at The Cove sometime
soon to have a look at the land. I think you'll be impressed. Not only are
the trails just what an event of this size needs, the lay of the land is
perfect. It also adds some various activities to MAR like fishing, hiking,
paddle boats, swiming, volley ball, horse shoes, open camp fires, stage
for a band, etc.... Oh, and the little store on site sells ice!!!

The only other information I know of is about insurance. The Cove requires
a 1-million dollar, multiple incident policy. I don't know too much about
insurance so I cannot answer any questions about this... If more
information is needed someone who knows what they are talking about needs
to call The Cove.


Daniel Chapman



9/25/07

Mike McCaig
Daniel,

Thanks for the quick reply. Obviously we have a lot of details to work out for the 60th event and sponsorship is of the up most importance. It could quite literally make us or break us. We will need to keep the participant cost close to or below our current fees I would think. Before we move much further on this I suggest we nail down the exact fees that the Cove will be charging with something in writing, identify some of our major expenses to put on the event (insurance, tents, meals?) and rough out a very basic budget and fee schedule to see if it is doable. I guess I'm crazy for talking about this before we even get through this years MAR but if ROAV is committed to putting on a world class event for the 60th then we will be competing with the National Rally and other events for LRNA sponsorship, vendor sponsorship and recognition as THE event to participant in. I think we can do this as we have aready held the largest LR event in North America, we just need to move forward in the planning and with good input and ideas (like yours below) it will be successful.

Thanks,
Mike McCaig




9/27/07

Paul Prosser
Dear Sandy,



Long time no talk to. Is there another place that we should be talking to for comparison purposes? Or should we go back to the Cove and try to negotiate the price back down to $42/person? There has been talk about the cost, and to me it is not outlandish for what we are trying to do, it’s the 60th. It sounds like the Cove fits the need for trails and space; so, it appears to me that we negotiate the price. Daniel Chapman says he is getting some paper work from them let’s look it over change what we don’t like, send it back and go from there.



Are we having fun yet or what?



Thank you,



Paul J. Prosser

Business Manager




9/27/07

James Dearden
Not a lot of time left for this folks. If we are to announce at MAR !!




9/27/07

Dchapman
Just an update on The Cove.

I spoke with them again today just to clarify some of the information. The Cove is also going to send me a promissory letter on pricing for the ROAV event if you choose to hold the event there.

The price breakdown is as follows:
$37.00 per person for three days ($12.00 per day) This includes the camping, swimming, fishing, etc......
$15.00 per person (5.00 per day) for a "Land Use Fee" This is like what Rausch Creek charges or like Paragon charged. This includes the trails portion of The Cove, ATV's, 4x4's, etc....
Children under 12 will have a reduced fee (to be determined after speaking with his brother) and children under 2 are free.
So, The Cove total charges per person would be $52.00. There is NO discount if an attendee wants to lodge off-site. The $52.00 is their basic fee for an event. After the talk of the $15.00 fee, there was no mention of a 10% or 20% additional fee on top of the organizers charge.

Normal charges at The Cove are $32.00 per day for the ATV or 4x4 recreation, so he is working with the group to offer a nice discount.

As soon as I get the letter from The Cove outlining the price charges, I will forward it to all of you.

There are also some nice features available we can use (and will again be outlined in his response)
Shelters $10.00 per day
Stage for a band (pricing not definite, yet, as the stage is not complete. But he mentioned the price being in the neighborhood of $1000.00 per the 3-days)
2-cabins available for 75.00 per night and one for 150.00 per night.
Boat rentals



Daniel Chapman




9/27/07

Mike McCaig
This sounds much more reasonable to me. The greatest expenses we have with MAR are for infrastructure, i.e. tents, porta-potties and land use/reclamation. Our bill for tents alone this year will be over 6k. A lot of the costs will not be incurred or will be reduced by using a site such as the Cove so we should be able to keep our event fee reasonable. Daniel thanks for following up on this.

Mike




9/27/07

Dchapman
I can't remember if I mentioned this or not, but The Cove does have shower
trailers (with hot water) and restroom trailers. These are not Ritz
Charlton facilities at all, but they do serve the purpose. Out of memory,
I cannot remember if they're handicap accessible or not.....

There is one road in and one road out of the property. At the entrence,
there is a General Store that sells basic camping items, ice, etc...
http://bigdogsoffroad.com/albums/cam...0054.sized.jpg I
don't see why ROAV cannot set-up registration there. That would save some
tent cost if nothing else. Then maybe a shelter could be utlized to sell
ROAV t-shirts, etc...

The 37.00 fee also included life-guards for the swimming area.

Anyway, for what it's worth.....


Daniel




10/1/07

Doug with LRL
i would love to do a LRL Lounge event like we did in montrose. but have to
> have a venue that works. the current MAR location (coupled with the
> unrelenting rain) isn't very friendly for a good evening.
>
>
> and i can't really just put up a tent at the venue, the point of the
> Lounge is to provide benefit to subscribers & supporters rather than
> giving lots of stuff to freeloaders. so it must be a close, accessible,
> but a off site location.
>
>
> but i am willing to do a lot more at MAR by way of support. from
> publishing a special MAR edition (or insert) to brining in bands & booze,
> to organizing photographers at key points on the trail to provide shots to
> attendees, to simple cash. the thing I need is circulation and subscribers
> (as well as advertisers). if there is a way to wrap a subscription in with
> every MAR attendee or ROAV member, that really helps me.
>
>
> Doug Evilsizor
> Founder & Publisher
> LRL Magazine
> www.LRLmag.com"




10/1/07

Jeff, can you foward this to all the people on the list?


This letter is to act as a confirmation for you and your club that the
dates of October the 2nd through the 5th of 2008 have been reserved for
your MAR event, no other large event will be scheduled for those dates.
We are also reserving our two cabins for your use for those dates as well,
those cabins being the lakeside cabin and the floating cabin.

Our prices for this event will be our standard event fee of
$37(standard 3 day fee) per person for the event, plus an extra land
use fee of 15 per person.

You will need to secure an insurance policy either by your club or
through another group IE: big dogs, back country driving school...
We need to be added as an additional insured to this policy with the
minimums of one million dollars multiple occurrence on multiple day
clause, holding harmless our staff, our owners. We also have a
standard waiver that we can provide for your participants to fill
out. We look forward to working with you for this event.

I hope this satisfies your needs; if not please call me at 540-858-2882 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 540-858-2882 end_of_the_skype_highlighting or
send email to skicoveguy@yahoo.com

With warmest regards,

Willis McDowell
Manger




2/5/08

John Tackly Dan,

First, let me apologize for the club if you were indeed left out of the loop regarding the issue of the Cove as a MAR venue.* Apparently, the credit for ROAV considering the Cove at all* goes to you and the initial efforts you undertook.* As Mike said, there was a call for volunteers here on this bbs to go and inspect the Cove, which is how I came to know of it...sorry you missed that.* I was one of the travelers that day.* Fortunately, fellow ROAV member Dan Rao also volunteered to go.* He has attended several events there with other clubs (Big Dogs) and was our guide for the day.* After much internal discussion (which was privately done for obvious reasons) over several days following the scouting trip the Cove was eliminated from consideration for MAR.* You should have been included, however only Officers and members of the BOD participated.* At this time even Dan Rao does not know of the final decision.* A final decision will be announced at the ABM and publicised thereafter...stay tuned to this bbs if you can't make the ABM.

Next, I need clarification from you regarding permission to place your name in nomination for a VA Trails committee position or as a Regional Coordinator position (or both).* As only 1 member of the 7 member BOD, I do not have the authority to grant the conditions you have requested.* Mike Mason explained the reasons why in his reply to you on the bbs.* I can only assure you that your ideas and requests for funding that the committee brings before the BOD will be considered and voted on.* If approved by the BOD, you will get the requested funding...that's just how such matters are dealt with within the confines of the current ROAV bylaws.

I want to ask you again privately, may I place your name in nomination, without reservation?

Please advise before the ABM on this Saturday.

Regards,

John Tackley
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  #56  
Old July 25th, 2011, 02:53 PM
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Dana Hammersley
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It is not pointed at anyone person. Just tired of all the BS. Just like this coming weekend there are people that are Anti-ROAV and so on. I don't like joining any clubs because of all the BS but sometimes you just have to suck it up an do some things you don't like to do, So you can do the things you do like to do. If we can't figure out a way to get along there will be no strengths in numbers and then the anti-offroaders will stop all of us. And if I had a beef with you you would be the first to know. In person you seem like a really nice guy but online you sure can be a dick. LOL
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  #57  
Old July 25th, 2011, 02:54 PM
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  #58  
Old July 25th, 2011, 03:30 PM
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Daniel Chapman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammertime View Post
It is not pointed at anyone person. Just tired of all the BS. Just like this coming weekend there are people that are Anti-ROAV and so on. I don't like joining any clubs because of all the BS but sometimes you just have to suck it up an do some things you don't like to do, So you can do the things you do like to do. If we can't figure out a way to get along there will be no strengths in numbers and then the anti-offroaders will stop all of us. And if I had a beef with you you would be the first to know. In person you seem like a really nice guy but online you sure can be a dick. LOL
Here is the thing, Dana. ROAV is not a club. They would like for you think they're a club, but they're not a club. ROAV is a business. It's a Limited Company. If you do not think so just go look on the State Corporation Commission website - it's public record. Here is a list the officers of this business:


ROAV is not a non-for-profit like most people think. They're a business. You are not a club member, you're a customer.

Do you feel like you get good service from this business? You said yourself that you're a business man and that you communicate with your clients whenever possible, so why is it okay for ROAV to ignore you? Don't you expect to receive the same service from the businesses you choose to deal with? I don't understand why you feel it's okay to call me a dick or tell the guys planning other of-road events to suck it up, yet it's ROAV who is toying you along like a puppet on a string. But you don't see it that way.

This new group of Directors ROAV has is a joke. I thought things were about to get turned around for ROAV this year when Doug got involved and Dan Rao joined in. Those two guys with Gus and JohnK sounded like a good team. It did not take long for Gus to see the light on what was really going on behind the scenes, but Doug, Dan, and John can't seem to find their balls to get things turned around. Instead of leaving like Gus did, they're playing the game. They're certainly not sticking to their word.

Take a look around here on this BBS, and then go over to the ROAV BBS and read. There are people such as Jonsey and Crandal asking questions but can't get answers. Gus, myself, and Charles have also asked questions, but they just ignore us. Is that what a club does? Does a club ignore their members? Doug checks this site daily, but he's not talking. JohnK checks the ROAV site every few days, but he's not talking. Dan is here; Mike McCaig is here; they've read this thread and the threads on the ROAV site, but they're not replying. If you want to go on some tangent and start calling people assholes, figure out who the asshole is, first.

I have a feeling, Dana, that you have absolutely no clue as to what is going on within ROAV. No idea at all. You're trying to act like you're the bigger man and want everyone to get along, but you have no idea what is happening in your club - the club you're trying to defend. Why don't you go over to the ROAV website or make a few calls and ask a few questions, then report back to the rest of us what the fuck is going on within ROAV. Tell us what to expect for MAR in 9-weeks. Why they can't get a 501(c)(7) title. Why they keep losing money on "club" events. Why they can't get a rally planned in a timely manner. Why they will not release expenditure reports or meeting minutes to their members.

Come on, Dana, if you're going to talk-the-talk, back your shit up. Show us what the fuck the American Way is, or what ever the fuck it was your were talking about a few posts back, when it comes to letting people know what's going on.
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  #59  
Old July 25th, 2011, 04:29 PM
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Gustavo
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Dan,

The officers info is incorrect as you know, I have posted on ROAV and called some Board Members to correct it.

I am out of town, if they do not correct it by the time I am back, I will make the change myself.

Hopefully ROAV makes it easier and correct the situation themselves
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  #60  
Old July 25th, 2011, 05:44 PM
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Bill Adams
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And we need a MAR because....
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