Mar 2010 - Page 3 - Defender Source
Defender Source  

Go Back   Defender Source > Non-Technical Discussions > Trips, Trails and Events


Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #41  
Old August 5th, 2010, 09:55 AM
ssbartley1's Avatar
ssbartley1
Status: Offline
Steve Bartley
1997 SW #160
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 503
Registry
-

Pathetic.




Quote:
Originally Posted by dchapman View Post
do people call you wolf for short? Do you own the three wolves shirt? I was just wondering since it's such a badass screen name.

But, you're only half right despite what you think you know. You actually do not know jack shit, but we'll act like you do for just a second.

I think roav is a joke, like most "clubs". You've got to ask yourself what a "club" is and what makes a club successful and we're all going to have different answers. Some of you, like this genius ssbartley1 feel a club is a group of like-minded people hang out and do stuff. In ssbartley1's case this means paying a $20.00 fee to be accepted, and then paying an addition $75.00 per event for a trail guide that's going to lead him on some public fire roads because he does not have the confidence or discipline to get in his truck on his own and see the land he acts to be so interested in. People like ssbartley1 have no clue of the real issues facing the land he loves so much and has no clue what responsible 4-wheeling really means. But he's in a "club" and that's all that matters.

Others, like myself, do not need a club to have that reassurance. We take pride in our conduct while on the trail and work to makes things better for others. We get involved in projects that actually matter and make it a point to protect and defend the little trails we do have so city boys can come to the area and have fun, too. We love what we do and that's why we do it. We do not go wheeling only if there is an event or a big group of folks to watch. We go wheeling and camping because it's a recreation we actually enjoy.

It's these kind of reason why i hate clubs, not just roav. Clubs gather a group of people, bring them into my backyard, rip the shit out of trails, leave their trash behind, pack up and go home. These clubs do not have to deal with the problems; they thing once they're back home in their beds the destruction they left behind automatically disappears. And what do they care anyway?? If one area, or trail, gets closed down, they'll just drive to a new area and do the same shit over again. This happens on public land, private land, and ohv parks.

Roav is a prime example of this type activity. Roav pulls anywhere from 30-trucks to 400-trucks to a property and lets them loose. Just look at some of the shit that went on at pearls pond for years. Look at this picture:



this picture above is on the pearls pond property, on what was called the east river trail. It's called the east river trails because it ran right along the rover. Once the event was over, do you think roav went back to grade the mud holes and plant vegetation so silt and other runoff did not enter the water shed?

Shit, i have a feeling if you asked the roav membership what the top 5 issues affecting the chesapeake bay were, no one would have a clue.

Here are a few more pictures i have that directly impact the water shed from roav events:









who cares, right? You can just leave all that behind when you're done, go home, and never have to deal with it ever again.

Nothing has changed, either. Here is a picture of the new mar property with idiot eric may, and roav board member, doing the same shit that gets 100's of areas closed each and every year;



roav does not believe in treading lightly. Roav does not believe in the mission of the blue ribbion coalition. Roav may have at one time joined the virginia 4-wheel drive association and/or united 4-wheel drive association, but they did absolute nothing to contribute to their cause and not a single member of roav attended any of their projects on behalf of roav.

So you're right, wolf, i do hate roav. Roav does a lot more harm than good for virginia trails and the sport.

But some of you people feel i'm picking on roav or that i'm being malicious. It's the newcomers with very little experience such as ssbartley1 who think i'm some bitter asshole who has nothing better to do. What some of you do not understand is that it's because of people like me why roav is striving to improve, both internally and their image. I know i give them lots of shit; i call them on the phone and give them shit, not just here on the bbs's. I've sat down with them over dinner and drinks and had conversations about the entire mess they're in. I spent several days with their current vice president and i, along with chris von czoernig, tried to help him understand why roav is such a clusterfuck.

Roav has some good people in their leadership. Roav also has a few people who need to just go away and be a spectator and not a decision maker. Christina, john k., chuck...they understand. I don't talk a lot with dan rao, but from the conversation i have had with dan i think he understands, too. Unfortunately, the officers do not have any say-so in roav and decisions are left up to the board of directors and for the most parts these decisions are made by the older generation of the club. Some of these same directors have a hard time in letting things go and changing with the times.

Up until this year, there has never been a trash pick-up at a roav event. I give credit to my friend dr. Aaron for that since he's the one who provided the motivation to get that started. It was way overdue. It's a step in the right direction as to what a "club" should be. It's teaching the younger generation a little something, too. This is only one step, though. Roav has a long way to go to become a real "club".

On the flip side, i enjoyed mar. Mar was a good time until they fucked it up in 2008. There is not even a question as if oak ridge was a good idea. It was a horrible idea. But prior to that, mar was a really good time. I look forward to the day that mar returns. Obviously it's not going to be this year because of the poor decision making, again, by the roav board of directors. I'm not sure what fantasy land their living in by thinking things will be back to normal because mar is returning to buckingham county, va, but they're defiantly in la-la land. I'm not saying the new property could not be built up to a quality event worth the $120.00 attendance fee, but they've got 8-weekends to prep the land, cut the trails, and organize the event. I'm sure as shit they will have a mar 2010, but it's not going to be the east coast version of the national rally like it once was.

So you do not know me, wolf. You have no idea who i am or what i've done behind the scenes of roav. Your perception of my roav views is flawed because i've done, and continue to do, a lot more than you ever have to improve the image of "clubs" in the eyes of people who have no idea. I still work, today, on trying to improve the mar event for east coasters looking for that national rally experience. It's people like you, wolf, who think i'm some sort of loaner out to get roav. I'm not out to get roav; the only thing in roav i'm out to get is john tackly, and when i'm done with john i'll go after that asshole eric may. Mar participation is down 50% from 4-years ago - that tells me i'm not a lone in my thinking. People are no longer coming to mar because it sucks. I would love to see it get better, and by better i mean a quality and responsible event that offers something for everyone.

I don't care how old it gets, i'm still going to make people aware of the issues. Roav wants you be believe they're transparent and that they have nothing to hide. If you believe that you don't care about your club anyway, so it does not matter to you what i say. I'm not even a roav member, but i bet i can tell you a lot of stuff you don't know about a club you paid dues to join.
__________________
Steve B-
Otterberg, Germany
-----------
"Walk tall, kick ass, learn to speak Arabic, love music and never forget you come from a long line of truth seekers, lovers and warriors."
- Hunter S. Thompson
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #42  
Old August 5th, 2010, 10:08 AM
dchapman
Status: Offline
Daniel Chapman
1999 D1
Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: VA
Posts: 759
The only thing pathetic, Steve, is that you feel it's owed to you to be accepted in a group just because you drive a Land Rover. You've got a lot to learn not only about the people you're trying to associate with, but about the responsible contributions expected from you if you're going to ride these trails.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old August 5th, 2010, 10:21 AM
ssbartley1's Avatar
ssbartley1
Status: Offline
Steve Bartley
1997 SW #160
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 503
Registry
-

Dan- I dont think anything is owed to me- certainly not because I drive a Land Rover, or a Jeep, or any other vehicle- where you draw that conclusion from is beyond me.

You do make valid points - but they are all lost in your bitter, hate filled replies meant to bash everyone that refuses to go against certain groups.

The people I associate with? That is totally wrong as well because every ROAV member that you said you agree with or "get it" are the exact people that I do associate with.

You know nothing about me- I talked to you for all of five minutes at the Devils Backbone Brewery- and yet you spew all of this garbage for god and country to sift through because you cant stomach the fact that I dont hate the same "club" that you do---again, burying any valid points about making things better.






Quote:
Originally Posted by dchapman View Post
The only thing pathetic, Steve, is that you feel it's owed to you to be accepted in a group just because you drive a Land Rover. You've got a lot to learn not only about the people you're trying to associate with, but about the responsible contributions expected from you if you're going to ride these trails.
__________________
Steve B-
Otterberg, Germany
-----------
"Walk tall, kick ass, learn to speak Arabic, love music and never forget you come from a long line of truth seekers, lovers and warriors."
- Hunter S. Thompson
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #44  
Old August 5th, 2010, 11:33 AM
Ren Ching's Avatar
Ren Ching
Status: Offline
Skinny Pete
'84 90 "Yamelo"/'88 RRC "Chewbacca"
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Downtown
Posts: 4,696
Registry
Dan, excellent post clearly demonstrating some valid concerns and issues we should all be aware of. I don't think the personal references are necessary to make your point and I think they give people an excuse to ignore what you are saying. Maybe that's why they throw you that tempting bait, to see you bite it and then watch the line buzzing off the reel. Then they can just go on with their day. That said, I think everyone on this thread needs to take it down a notch. This isn't about personal issues, it is about issues that affect all of us.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old August 5th, 2010, 12:31 PM
galen216's Avatar
galen216
Status: Offline
Galen Lentz
'98 D1
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: State College, PA
Posts: 562
Registry
Everyone makes good points. Dan included. Personally I would love to see what the Cove has to offer but I won't give up MAR because too many great people still go there. It was my first big event. The first year I didn't even get to drive the trails b/c I drove down topless in the sun and it rained for 3 days straight. But that didn't matter. The group that took me in was awesome and I hang with those guys to this day.

I too was invited to the new location and saw it first hand. Dan is picking a fight because as has been mentioned, there are no trails at the moment. This year isn't going to be the greatest MAR ever, but it will get there again. What Dan doesn't mention are the new leaders in place trying to make a difference. And the changes can be seen. Oak Ridge was a bad choice, I've even heard BOD members admit that. Last year was a nice place but the county got greedy and that is beyond ROAV's control.

What I can tell you is that the new MAR is right next door to Pearl's Pond. It has a great beach front area of the James complete with horseshoe pits and picnic tables. It is 5 miles from Scottsville, VA. Scottsville has a brand new grocery store, a liquor store, several gas stations (one is within 2 miles and stocks a large quantity of things), a tire shop, motels/B&B's, an outdoor store, 2 tubing/canoe rental places and restaurants. I live 5 miles from the new location and Scottsville is my home. The town can benefit from an event like this because it is small and all business is welcome.

While this year may not be the best trail event you have ever been too it is an excellent place to bring your family and enjoy the weekend. Next year the trails will only get better and so forth. Buckingham County has proven with PP and some other events in the area that they are not going to get greedy and run ROAV off the property looking for extra money. I can only hope the event is here to stay for awhile.

I like Dan and he makes good points but what he wants isn't the same thing everyone wants.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	MAR1-1.jpg
Views:	132
Size:	244.2 KB
ID:	29872   Click image for larger version

Name:	MAR4.jpg
Views:	123
Size:	327.1 KB
ID:	29873  

Click image for larger version

Name:	MAR5.jpg
Views:	138
Size:	366.2 KB
ID:	29874   Click image for larger version

Name:	MAR6.jpg
Views:	124
Size:	445.6 KB
ID:	29875  

__________________
'98 D1
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old August 5th, 2010, 01:03 PM
dchapman
Status: Offline
Daniel Chapman
1999 D1
Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: VA
Posts: 759
Quote:
Originally Posted by galen216 View Post
I like Dan and he makes good points but what he wants isn't the same thing everyone wants.
What do I want that you do not want?
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old August 5th, 2010, 01:08 PM
galen216's Avatar
galen216
Status: Offline
Galen Lentz
'98 D1
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: State College, PA
Posts: 562
Registry
Lots of stuff.
__________________
'98 D1
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old August 5th, 2010, 01:12 PM
Ren Ching's Avatar
Ren Ching
Status: Offline
Skinny Pete
'84 90 "Yamelo"/'88 RRC "Chewbacca"
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Downtown
Posts: 4,696
Registry
Wow, that is an open ended question. Good thing this isn't D-web


Quote:
Originally Posted by dchapman View Post
What do I want that you do not want?
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old August 5th, 2010, 01:15 PM
dchapman
Status: Offline
Daniel Chapman
1999 D1
Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: VA
Posts: 759
Quote:
Originally Posted by galen216 View Post
Lots of stuff.
Like?
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old August 5th, 2010, 01:20 PM
ron's Avatar
ron
Status: Offline
Ron
1994 NAS Defender 90
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Harwichport MA
Posts: 5,364
i always wanted a Llama : )
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old August 5th, 2010, 01:29 PM
Overlander's Avatar
Overlander
Status: Offline
mark kellgren
in between D's in an 04 D2
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 6,531
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by galen216 View Post
Everyone makes good points. Dan included. Personally I would love to see what the Cove has to offer but I won't give up MAR because too many great people still go there. It was my first big event. The first year I didn't even get to drive the trails b/c I drove down topless in the sun and it rained for 3 days straight. But that didn't matter. The group that took me in was awesome and I hang with those guys to this day.

I too was invited to the new location and saw it first hand. Dan is picking a fight because as has been mentioned, there are no trails at the moment. This year isn't going to be the greatest MAR ever, but it will get there again. What Dan doesn't mention are the new leaders in place trying to make a difference. And the changes can be seen. Oak Ridge was a bad choice, I've even heard BOD members admit that. Last year was a nice place but the county got greedy and that is beyond ROAV's control.

What I can tell you is that the new MAR is right next door to Pearl's Pond. It has a great beach front area of the James complete with horseshoe pits and picnic tables. It is 5 miles from Scottsville, VA. Scottsville has a brand new grocery store, a liquor store, several gas stations (one is within 2 miles and stocks a large quantity of things), a tire shop, motels/B&B's, an outdoor store, 2 tubing/canoe rental places and restaurants. I live 5 miles from the new location and Scottsville is my home. The town can benefit from an event like this because it is small and all business is welcome.

While this year may not be the best trail event you have ever been too it is an excellent place to bring your family and enjoy the weekend. Next year the trails will only get better and so forth. Buckingham County has proven with PP and some other events in the area that they are not going to get greedy and run ROAV off the property looking for extra money. I can only hope the event is here to stay for awhile.

I like Dan and he makes good points but what he wants isn't the same thing everyone wants.
For what it's worth, I have no stake in ROAV, as I'm in NC and members of both NC Rover groups. This will be my first MAR. The reason I am going to MAR, is that I have not only heard great things about it from many members of this forum, but also from NC Rover members. This will be the 2nd family camping trip ever with both my daughters, and I want to easy them into it with a fun light weekend outdoors. The last event we went to was a hit with my family (URE4), but wasn't completely family friendly, and the MAR board has committed to better seperation of the late nighters and families. My family is not ready for rock climbing and being covered up to their hips in mud in a recovery.

I'm also going for the fellowship of the rover community. I love talking Rovers with my close circle of friends, and having only been to two other rover events ever here in NC, I want more of that fell owship.

I also have to say that I never really considered MAR until this URE. Eric May was encamped adjacent to my sight, and I had great conversations with him. He's the real reason I've decided to go to VA.

COVE does sound like fun, and it's on my radar now, but since I'm trying to bring my family into the overlanding and Rover lifestyle, I'm more focused on positive interactions with those club communities to reinforce their perception of this lifestyle as one to adopt.

I think that Dan has a lot of things to set as goals for improvement in ROAV (not that I have any stake in it), but deconstructive messaging closes the mind to valid arguments.

I'm suprised to see this kind of negative energy on this forum. I always perceived D-90 to be more of a brotherhood. Regardless, I'm looking forward to meeting many of the D-90 members that are going at MAR, that I otherwise would not meet anytime soon.

Next year, I'm packing the family up for the National Rally, and then in 2012, we're going to Belize with NLX! These are exciting times for me.
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old August 5th, 2010, 01:46 PM
dchapman
Status: Offline
Daniel Chapman
1999 D1
Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: VA
Posts: 759
If Uwharrie was not family friendly enough for you, you're going to hate MAR. Uwharrie is about as laid back as it gets.
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old August 5th, 2010, 02:16 PM
Overlander's Avatar
Overlander
Status: Offline
mark kellgren
in between D's in an 04 D2
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 6,531
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by dchapman View Post
If Uwharrie was not family friendly enough for you, you're going to hate MAR. Uwharrie is about as laid back as it gets.
I can't believe that to be true. Due to the density of the campsite and lack or organization with respect to lifestyle, I had to get out of my cot at 2:30AM and walk over to a 20 something group's campsite to ask them to keep it down because my 3 and 6 year old couldn't sleep, as they were drinking out of control and had their music cranked. They were extremely rude in response to me and ignored my request. That almost ruined Rover events out of the gate for my entire family.
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old August 5th, 2010, 02:34 PM
dchapman
Status: Offline
Daniel Chapman
1999 D1
Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: VA
Posts: 759
Quote:
Originally Posted by Overlander View Post
I can't believe that to be true. Due to the density of the campsite and lack or organization with respect to lifestyle, I had to get out of my cot at 2:30AM and walk over to a 20 something group's campsite to ask them to keep it down because my 3 and 6 year old couldn't sleep, as they were drinking out of control and had their music cranked. They were extremely rude in response to me and ignored my request. That almost ruined Rover events out of the gate for my entire family.
I don't know what the camping layout will be at the new MAR location. No clue at all.

But I was at Uwharrie. I know where Eric was camped so I know about where you were. I, however, was camped over in the RV section across the road a bit, so who knows who you talked to or who was being loud. Could have been me as I was over in the area late into the night as well.

But what you described above happens at most Rover events I've attended. Well, maybe not the BRLRC events. MAR is certainly not the exception. I can't really say I agree with your concerns, but I know exactly what you mean. If someone is telling you that you're not going to have the same activity at a MAR event, they're a fucking liar.

I'm not trying to discourage you from attending MAR this year. You're a big boy and you can do what ever you want. But I don't think I'd go to any Rover event and expect to have quite time after 9pm. Especially if you're packing 300+ people onto a 400-acre property.

EDIT: After seeing your avatar, were you the guy there with his wife and you were both dressed alike in brown khaki? Are you the guys who had monogrammed chairs?
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old August 5th, 2010, 02:40 PM
Overlander's Avatar
Overlander
Status: Offline
mark kellgren
in between D's in an 04 D2
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 6,531
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by dchapman View Post
I don't know what the camping layout will be at the new MAR location. No clue at all.

But I was at Uwharrie. I know where Eric was camped so I know about where you were. I, however, was camped over in the RV section across the road a bit, so who knows who you talked to or who was being loud. Could have been me as I was over in the area late into the night as well.

But what you described above happens at most Rover events I've attended. Well, maybe not the BRLRC events. MAR is certainly not the exception. I can't really say I agree with your concerns, but I know exactly what you mean. If someone is telling you that you're not going to have the same activity at a MAR event, they're a fucking liar.

I'm not trying to discourage you from attending MAR this year. You're a big boy and you can do what ever you want. But I don't think I'd go to any Rover event and expect to have quite time after 9pm. Especially if you're packing 300+ people onto a 400-acre property.

EDIT: After seeing your avatar, were you the guy there with his wife and you were both dressed alike in brown khaki? Are you the guys who had monogrammed chairs?
I'm sensing sarcasm in your words. We weren't dressed alike, but she was in khaki. I did have a monigrammed chair, but it was only my chair, which I had monigrammed in Iraq, as everyone has chairs and you have to put your name on it over there so people can tell who's seat it is. There's nothing pompous about it, if that's what you're getting at.

I can say that if every Rover event has a group of people as rude and disrespectful as that group at URE, then we won't be attending any more rover events. We'll see how it goes at MAR, but I've heard that the late nighters and families will be on opposite end. I'm not interested in any college style beerfests.

I also talked to the CROC president afterwards and addressed the issue, and he said they wanted a family style event, and had a pretty good idea who the problem children were and would address it.
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old August 5th, 2010, 02:44 PM
dchapman
Status: Offline
Daniel Chapman
1999 D1
Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: VA
Posts: 759
LOL, not getting at that at all. I just did not know how else to describe the folks I was referring to other than the roof top tent, and several people had RTT's. You don't see many monogrammed chairs like that....
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old August 5th, 2010, 02:46 PM
Overlander's Avatar
Overlander
Status: Offline
mark kellgren
in between D's in an 04 D2
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 6,531
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by dchapman View Post
LOL, not getting at that at all. I just did not know how else to describe the folks I was referring to other than the roof top tent, and several people had RTT's. You don't see many monogrammed chairs like that....
In Kuwait, everbody monagramms everything, since everything looks alike, and embroidered monagramming is cheap on every base.
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old August 6th, 2010, 06:12 PM
disco dog's Avatar
disco dog
Status: Offline
Tracy Dwyer
2002 D110 TD5
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Costa Rica
Posts: 369
DAMN I will miss this thread when it finally burns out. Definitly need a popcorn eating smiley.
__________________
PURA VIDA !!
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old August 6th, 2010, 10:43 PM
draaronr's Avatar
draaronr
Status: Offline
Here
LR3
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: nc USA
Posts: 1,799
Mark you are welcome to camp by us at MAR. I will have the whole family again. We do camp in a larger group but are laid back, if we wanna get roudy we know the camps to visit. My wife would be out forever if I didn't make it so. By the way did you see the pictures of your kids playing with mine at Uwharrie? If not I can send you the link.
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old August 7th, 2010, 12:00 AM
rijosho's Avatar
rijosho
Status: Offline
Joshua
1995 Black ST - Rhinolined edition
Research Assistant/Eagle Eyes
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: NYC
Posts: 16,557
Registry
Quote:
Originally Posted by draaronr
if we wanna get roudy we know the camps to visit.
I know this is going to sound stupid, but where would this be located?
__________________
Quote:
I am talking purely from an aesthetics standpoint.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Defender Source > Non-Technical Discussions > Trips, Trails and Events

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
MAR 2005/Rolling Stones JBurt For Sale - Parts 0 June 13th, 2005 03:07 PM
This is one Motley MAR crew Dfndr90 Misc. Chit-Chat 12 October 11th, 2004 12:39 AM
MAR Group Photo loykd Trips, Trails and Events 42 September 29th, 2004 10:18 PM
Rausch Creek, Mar 26-28 loykd Trips, Trails and Events 125 March 31st, 2004 07:54 PM
MAR Orphans loykd Trips, Trails and Events 60 October 7th, 2003 10:58 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:14 PM.


Copyright