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  #41  
Old November 6th, 2011, 02:30 PM
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Fire Report

So, long story short.....

The cell phone charger had a malfunction. When my wife plugged it in to the 12 volt cigarette lighter plug it shorted out and took about 2 three foot stands of wire with it. (ie - I let the smoke out) The wires actually burned with flame and smoked up the whole truck. We all ditched it and bailed out.

Ironicaly, the wires took with it my fire department logo insulated coffee mug.

Once out of the truck, I was able to start turning things off quickly and pulled things apart. So, the damage was limited.

Big ups to my trail buds who all came running with the fire extinquishers rather than the cameras!!

[Before the legions of I-TOLD-YOU-SO's all start chiming in, the plug was direct wired to the battery. It was a temporary thing I put in about 2 years ago and I never got around to sorting something more permanent out - with an in line fuse. Lesson learned.]
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  #42  
Old November 6th, 2011, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Firemanshort View Post
So, long story short.....

The cell phone charger had a malfunction. When my wife plugged it in to the 12 volt cigarette lighter plug it shorted out and took about 2 three foot stands of wire with it. (ie - I let the smoke out) The wires smoked up the whole truck and we all ditched it and bailed out.

Ironicaly, the wires took with it my fire department logo insulated coffee mug.

Once out of the truck, I was able to start turning things off quickly and pull things apart. So, the damage was limited.

Big ups to my trail buds who all came running with the fire extinquishers father than the cameras!!

[Before the legions of I-TOLD-YOU-SO's all start chiming in, the plug was direct wired to the battery. It was a temporary thing I put in about 2 years ago and I never got around to sorting something more permanent out - with an in line fuse. Lesson learned.]
Holy cow...wow, glad you guys were all right - that's what counts. Sorry I missed the "excitement" (and yes, they would have been running with extinguishers but I would have been the one running with the camera : ).
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  #43  
Old November 7th, 2011, 07:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Firemanshort View Post
... And before rumors get started ...

The fire was not that bad and I made it home with no problems.
Wait!!! What?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Firemanshort View Post
So, long story short.....

The cell phone charger had a malfunction. When my wife plugged it in to the 12 volt cigarette lighter plug it shorted out and took about 2 three foot stands of wire with it. (ie - I let the smoke out) The wires actually burned with flame and smoked up the whole truck. We all ditched it and bailed out.

Ironicaly, the wires took with it my fire department logo insulated coffee mug.

Once out of the truck, I was able to start turning things off quickly and pulled things apart. So, the damage was limited.

Big ups to my trail buds who all came running with the fire extinquishers rather than the cameras!!

[Before the legions of I-TOLD-YOU-SO's all start chiming in, the plug was direct wired to the battery. It was a temporary thing I put in about 2 years ago and I never got around to sorting something more permanent out - with an in line fuse. Lesson learned.]
I had no idea that this happened to you guys. I'm glad that that nothing major happened.

I have my 12 volt cigarette lighter wired directly to the battery as well... Note to self: Install a fuse.

Great day for wheeling, nice to see everyone.
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  #44  
Old November 9th, 2011, 03:38 PM
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You guys ever hear the saying, "if it looks like shit, it probably is shit"?

Large group trail rides with people from out of the area piss me off and this one especially is no exception. The last time some of you went to this area to trail ride there were pictures posted of trucks climbing the shale-pit in Union Springs. Then there were others pictures of owners crawling up and over tank traps and into stream beds. Some of you claimed you did not know and would never do it again.

But here we area again, some of the same people doing just what they said they would never do.

Guys, if it looks like a tank trap, it's probably a tank trap. The forest service does not build tank traps for us to drive over. The tank traps are designed to keep you out of an area or off a trail. Just because your truck has the ability to drive over them does not mean you have to do this.

There are pictures posted of trucks driving up and over the tank trap blocking a trail leading to Flag Pole Knob. Flag Pole Knob is an open field overlooking the valley. It's a nice place and lots of people visit this area. There is a perfectly good, level, road leading to Flag Pole Knob off FR-85. There are three additional roads leading to Flag Pole that are blocked with tank traps, and they are blocked for good reason. There is no need to have 4 entrances/exits to Flag Pole Knob within 200-yards of each other.

I explained earlier in this thread that the area is in jeopardy of being closed. Do any of you idiots know why the forest service wants to close the area? It's because of the people who do not follow the rules.

Fucking christ, guys. What is it about this group that cannot obey the rules? You're fucking it up for the rest of us. This is the type of shit I would expect from 16 year old Jeepers, not adults.
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  #45  
Old November 9th, 2011, 03:44 PM
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Dear Captain Douchebag:

We stuck to the trail, at least when I was there, and did not such climbing up tank traps. The only pics posted were from Russell or myself, who left early after reaching FlagPole, so I'm not sure what other "pictures" you think you're seeing. And we took the one road up the back way right into the field area at the top...so it was an open trail, unlike your suggestions below.

You need glasses?



Quote:
Originally Posted by dchapman View Post
You guys ever hear the saying, "if it looks like shit, it probably is shit"?

Large group trail rides with people from out of the area piss me off and this one especially is no exception. The last time some of you went to this area to trail ride there were pictures posted of trucks climbing the shale-pit in Union Springs. Then there were others pictures of owners crawling up and over tank traps and into stream beds. Some of you claimed you did not know and would never do it again.

But here we area again, some of the same people doing just what they said they would never do.

Guys, if it looks like a tank trap, it's probably a tank trap. The forest service does not build tank traps for us to drive over. The tank traps are designed to keep you out of an area or off a trail. Just because your truck has the ability to drive over them does not mean you have to do this.

There are pictures posted of trucks driving up and over the tank trap blocking a trail leading to Flag Pole Knob. Flag Pole Knob is an open field overlooking the valley. It's a nice place and lots of people visit this area. There is a perfectly good, level, road leading to Flag Pole Knob off FR-85. There are three additional roads leading to Flag Pole that are blocked with tank traps, and they are blocked for good reason. There is no need to have 4 entrances/exits to Flag Pole Knob within 200-yards of each other.

I explained earlier in this thread that the area is in jeopardy of being closed. Do any of you idiots know why the forest service wants to close the area? It's because of the people who do not follow the rules.

Fucking christ, guys. What is it about this group that cannot obey the rules? You're fucking it up for the rest of us. This is the type of shit I would expect from 16 year old Jeepers, not adults.
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  #46  
Old November 9th, 2011, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by nathanwind View Post
Dear Captain Douchebag:

We stuck to the trail, at least when I was there, and did not such climbing up tank traps. The only pics posted were from Russell or myself, who left early after reaching FlagPole, so I'm not sure what other "pictures" you think you're seeing. And we took the one road up the back way right into the field area at the top...so it was an open trail, unlike your suggestions below.

You need glasses?
You fucking dipshit. The pictures are in your fucking photo album.
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  #47  
Old November 10th, 2011, 07:05 AM
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Everything is cool though, they signed a medical release.
I would expect this from the ROAV crowd, not you guys.

------ Follow up post added November 10th, 2011 08:42 AM ------

I thought you occ guys knew better.
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  #48  
Old November 10th, 2011, 09:04 AM
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You guys are completely misrepresenting this trail ride. Don't you realize your message is lost in your delivery (you know - your tiring "holier than thou, asshole behind the keyboard" persona)?

These seem to be jabs at me or OCC so I guess I'll take the time to defend myself or I wouldn't bother. This was a nice trail rice in GWNF by responsible participants. We did no damage to the trails or environment and in fact left it better than we found it by picking up trash. There was no irresponsible behavior or anything juvenile going on.

Group size has nothing to do with it, although it was larger than I like for other reasons that anything you are citing. It could have been two trucks and nothing would have been any different. I didn't lead this trail ride but it wouldn't have made a difference if I had. Any OCC's involvement only made it better if anything.

I'll address some of your comments below Dan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dchapman View Post
The last time some of you went to this area to trail ride there were pictures posted of trucks climbing the shale-pit in Union Springs. Then there were others pictures of owners crawling up and over tank traps and into stream beds. Some of you claimed you did not know and would never do it again.
That would be me. It was true then and it's still true. Had I known it was off limits I would have told people not to go there. I or anyone I know have not driven there since.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dchapman View Post
But here we area again, some of the same people doing just what they said they would never do.
Bullshit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dchapman View Post
Guys, if it looks like a tank trap, it's probably a tank trap. The forest service does not build tank traps for us to drive over. The tank traps are designed to keep you out of an area or off a trail. Just because your truck has the ability to drive over them does not mean you have to do this.

There are pictures posted of trucks driving up and over the tank trap blocking a trail leading to Flag Pole Knob. Flag Pole Knob is an open field overlooking the valley. It's a nice place and lots of people visit this area. There is a perfectly good, level, road leading to Flag Pole Knob off FR-85. There are three additional roads leading to Flag Pole that are blocked with tank traps, and they are blocked for good reason. There is no need to have 4 entrances/exits to Flag Pole Knob within 200-yards of each other.
It did not look like a tank trap to me and in no way looks like there was any attempt to block access anywhere. If you come from the other direction there is a well defined trail going to that. We have driven the same way for years with a variety of different responsible wheelers and this has never been brought up as off limits.

I don't see how you find multiple entrances to flag pole knob a problem, but don't have a problem with there being multiple paths to get up to it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dchapman View Post
I explained earlier in this thread that the area is in jeopardy of being closed. Do any of you idiots know why the forest service wants to close the area? It's because of the people who do not follow the rules.

Fucking christ, guys. What is it about this group that cannot obey the rules? You're fucking it up for the rest of us. This is the type of shit I would expect from 16 year old Jeepers, not adults.
Look, despite everything you are saying here, it doesn't make it true. We are knowing breaking any rules (and I don't believe we did anyway) and are not fucking it up for the rest, and you are the one acting juvenile here. Even though your heart appears to be in the right place you are attacking the wrong people. Take your anti-club mentality or whatever problem you have elsewhere.

If you really want to help, may i make a few suggestions.

1. Offer to join groups going there and show them what you believe is off limits
2. Better yet schedule a trip to go post signs and/or mark them better. I'll gladly join you.
3. Drop all the inflammatory rhetoric if you really want to make an impression on people. Your style may work elsewhere for you but not here.
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  #49  
Old November 10th, 2011, 09:29 AM
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Oh fucking christ, Charles. You have been doing this for years. YOU OF ALL PEOPLE SHOULD KNOW BETTER. But you're playing the ignorance card. Ignorance is not the law. Because of the actions of people like you is the reason trails in my area get closed every fucking year.

You are not the only one to have ever driven over tank traps in the area. But you are one of the guys who should know better. You should have learned years ago that tank traps, or the trails they block, are not to be fucked with. Just because someone else has done it, illegally, does not make it okay.

Look at this picture. Are you serious that this does not look like a tank trap to you? Seriously? Sure, there are track marks all over that hill from people driving over it. It has been going on for years. But just because it has been going on for years does not make it legal to do. You should be setting an example, Charles. When you take a large group into the woods, whether you're a trail leader or not, you should be one of the guys educating them on what's right and what's wrong.


It's the motherfuckers like you, and the group you were with, who give the rest of us a bed rep. You probably do not see it that way because you come here once every 2 or 3 years and if a trail gets closed, so what. But to us locals, who fight to keep the trails open by attending forest service meetings, adopting trails and cleaning them up, building relationships with forest rangers and federal law enforcement, and attempting to educate the young high school guys who don't know any better, it's a huge problem. To people like you, if a trail gets closed, you don't give a shit as you can go to Rausch Creek or Crabtree Falls, or Peter's Mill and you'd be just as happy. But for me, I like what we have have left and I try to defend it. Fuck you if you think my delivery is off!! You have been told at least once before to stop fucking around and you did not listen. You're old enough to know better and you've been doing this long enough to know better. You deserve more than just a "fuck you" from me, and don't think it has not crossed my mind to turn these pictures over to the federal officer who patrols that area. In a way I wish he would have caught your group climbing up and over that tank trap - I would love for you to tell him "we didn't know". You really think he would have given a shit? It's a $250.00 fine, and $50.00 court cost for the first offense. But even more than that, it's ablack-eye to the off-road community.

I just do not understand why people cannot stick to the legal trails. There is a perfectly good road leading to Flag Pole Knob. This is not an off-road park with dozens of trails leading to any given spot. It's not an OHV area. It's our National Forest.
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  #50  
Old November 10th, 2011, 09:52 AM
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It's a $250.00 fine, and $50.00 court cost for the first offense.
Who do I make the check out to?
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  #51  
Old November 10th, 2011, 09:55 AM
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Dan,

I think it will be nice if you come out and " Help us " , as I think I have been " guilty by ignorance " as well.

No one wants to loose any trails and unlike what might be perceived from locals , we the Out of Towner's, really care about the GWNF.

BTW so you know, I want a Sweatshirt with the logo Captain Douchebag *LMFAO*
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  #52  
Old November 10th, 2011, 10:05 AM
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Who do I make the check out to?
You're a fucking idiot. You don't get it. You never will.

------ Follow up post added November 10th, 2011 10:07 AM ------

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Originally Posted by Rugbier View Post
Dan,

I think it will be nice if you come out and " Help us " , as I think I have been " guilty by ignorance " as well.
We all have. But just as you learn how to change your brake pads, you should learn the laws of your sport.

Thread Lightly and respect the laws. When you go to Rausch Creek, throw it all out the window.
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  #53  
Old November 10th, 2011, 10:22 AM
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But to us locals...who fight to keep the trails open by...attempting to educate the young high school guys who don't know any better
Man I'd love to see a video of this in action.

Dan: Listen up fuckers. Who here has ever driven over a mound of wood chips in the woods?
Highschooler: I have. In my Dodge Durango.
Dan: Fuck you asshole. Don't tell me you've also fucking dipped your fucking Durango in the water.
Highschooler: Sure have. I did it with a group of fellow Dodge owners.
Dan: Don't fucking tell me you fucking Dodge people are creating a fucking club to fucking do this shit more frequently.
Highschooler: We were thinking about it. We already conduct trail cleanups, so we figured we'd organize.
Dan: Wait, you're not even fucking wearing the local highschool hoodie; fuck, are you not even from around here, asshole?
Highschooler: Nope, I am not. I came from a few towns over, but we don't have any local forests to do this type of green laning, and it's really beautiful out here.
Dan: Fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck!
Highschooler: I'm not sure I've learned much here, but do you have tourettes?
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  #54  
Old November 10th, 2011, 10:32 AM
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Quick, someone read this book:
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Old November 10th, 2011, 10:36 AM
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Quick, someone read this book:
I'm not here to win friends. Have you not figured that out by now? Why would I surround myself with people such as this?
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  #56  
Old November 10th, 2011, 10:41 AM
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I'm not here to win friends. Have you not figured that out by now?
I was elluding more the influence part as I think most are beyond the friend thing. Generally, if you want to influence people, you don't start with hate and explitive filled tourettes rants. Now, if your goal to is to immediately create and air of arrogance and hate, then touche. But if your goal is to educate, I suggest you pick up the book. PM me your address, I'll send you a copy.

------ Follow up post added November 10th, 2011 10:42 AM ------

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Why would I surround myself with people such as this?
That's priceless, yet you keep coming back.
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Old November 10th, 2011, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Wolf Fabrication View Post
I was elluding more the influence part as I think most are beyond the friend thing. Generally, if you want to influence people, you don't start with hate and explitive filled tourettes rants. Now, if your goal to is to immediately create and air of arrogance and hate, then touche. But if your goal is to educate, I suggest you pick up the book. PM me your address, I'll send you a copy.
It's not the first time. It's not the second time. These dumbasses should have learned a long time ago.

------ Follow up post added November 10th, 2011 10:51 AM ------

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Originally Posted by Wolf Fabrication View Post

That's priceless, yet you keep coming back.
I keep coming back to make friends? You see me trying to get you to meet me somewhere for beers or truck talk? You see me going on trail rides with OCC or B4W or ROAV? If I do, there is probably something else on the agenda. Sure, I've met many people who post on this BBS. It does not mean we hang out. I don't go to their birthday party. I don't call them up every evening to chat. I'm not here to make friends.
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  #58  
Old November 10th, 2011, 11:00 PM
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You're a fucking idiot. You don't get it. You never will.

------ Follow up post added November 10th, 2011 10:07 AM ------

We all have. But just as you learn how to change your brake pads, you should learn the laws of your sport.

Thread Lightly and respect the laws. When you go to Rausch Creek, throw it all out the window.
Was gone most of today, so just getting caught up. I've had a chance to reflect on your statements about treading lightly, respecting the laws, and agree with you 100%. In fact, I've done much long-distance hiking, completing both the Long Trail in VT and many sections of the AT in GA/VA/VT/NH/ME, and have adhered to the Leave-No-Trace approach and have also taken classes in this methodology. I also started an eco-friendly company that donates a portion of it's proceeds to charity. So I do get it, practice it, and live it. Or maybe I just do these other things so I can drive gas-guzzling SUVs without fear of retribution. Who knows.

But with my conversations today with the North River area office of the GWNF (540-432-0187) I'm not convinced we were in the wrong. We were on trail, which led us directly to this area, and from my chat with them they said that all off-limit areas would be gated/marked/painted/posted or otherwise. Anything directly on, or directly adjacent to the trail, that is or appears to be part of the trail, should be fine. That said, I have no problem with avoiding this particular area (and others like it) in the future just to be on the safe side. That's really all you needed to say.

Heck, why don't we meet up for a trail ride at some point? I hear that Flagpole is lovely in the winter time. Oh wait, you already knew that...didn't you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=ERcPblZ6REc

I can never remember the difference...was that a coniferous or a deciduous plant that you decimated?
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  #59  
Old November 11th, 2011, 05:50 AM
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Originally Posted by nathanwind View Post
Heck, why don't we meet up for a trail ride at some point? I hear that Flagpole is lovely in the winter time.
I would glady take you up on that but I will not sign silly forms to drive on fire roads.
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Old November 11th, 2011, 08:10 AM
dchapman
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Daniel Chapman
1999 D1
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: VA
Posts: 759
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanwind View Post

But with my conversations today with the North River area office of the GWNF (540-432-0187) I'm not convinced we were in the wrong. We were on trail, which led us directly to this area, and from my chat with them they said that all off-limit areas would be gated/marked/painted/posted or otherwise. Anything directly on, or directly adjacent to the trail, that is or appears to be part of the trail, should be fine. That said, I have no problem with avoiding this particular area (and others like it) in the future just to be on the safe side. That's really all you needed to say.
Are you seriously still trying to justify running over tank traps?

------ Follow up post added November 11th, 2011 08:40 AM ------

Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanwind View Post

Heck, why don't we meet up for a trail ride at some point? I hear that Flagpole is lovely in the winter time. Oh wait, you already knew that...didn't you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=ERcPblZ6REc

Congratulations. You found a video from 2003, 9 years ago. Let's look what I learned in those 9 years.

Volunteer Road Maintenance in the GWNF:



Helped to have a kiosk erected in a problem area and post literature as regular as I can:



My wife and I planted trees in a rehabilitated area of the GWNF that once looked like this:











A tank trap helps to protect the area:



I collect trash when I can while in the area:











No trash too big:



Fences have been erected around problem areas:



Yahoo's tear them down:



And yet someone rebuilds them.......


What have you learned since you started wheeling?

------ Follow up post added November 11th, 2011 08:50 AM ------


Nope. 255/85/16's.

------ Follow up post added November 11th, 2011 08:53 AM ------

Video was uploaded, again, in 2009. Could not find the original upload. Listen to the radio in the background at the 0:26 mark for the date. It was February of 2003.

What's even better is how you photo-shopped, or otherwise edited, the text/description of the video.

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