WTB (or trade) Defender or series 3 brake tower and pedal - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old July 31st, 2013, 11:00 AM
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Charles Galpin
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WTB (or trade) Defender or series 3 brake tower and pedal

I need a defender brake tower and pedal assembly. It will be stripped and galvied so not worried about condition.

I can trade a galvanized tower and pedal from a Series IIA if you so desire.

Tia,
charles
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  #2  
Old July 31st, 2013, 12:04 PM
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You want an SIII tower not a defender tower Charles.
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  #3  
Old July 31st, 2013, 12:07 PM
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I think I have one, defender style
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  #4  
Old July 31st, 2013, 12:14 PM
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Charles Galpin
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Why? Skool me please. I don't know the difference between the two, but I already have a defender throttle so I figured I'd make them match

My current plan is to "future proof" my build by going with the defender pedal which puts the MC forward of the tower, and defer the decision to find a servo that fits with no or minimal cutting, or blank it and go manual, or go hydro or whatever.

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You want an SIII tower not a defender tower Charles.
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  #5  
Old July 31st, 2013, 12:31 PM
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Well I was assuming you were keeping the booster. It takes up more space than an SIII which is the issue.
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  #6  
Old July 31st, 2013, 12:33 PM
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Charles Galpin
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Nope. I guess I should make it clear - I need the tower and pedal but don't need the booster/servo or master cylinder.

Tom, let me know if what you have fits the bill, and what you want for it.

Thanks,
charles
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Old July 31st, 2013, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSBriggs View Post
Teriann's site has some good info. http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/dual_brake_conv.htm

If you are looking to match the pedal style, then what you are running for a clutch pedal will have more to do with your decision than the throttle.

-Jeff
unless you can weld
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  #8  
Old July 31st, 2013, 01:44 PM
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Charles Galpin
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Lots of good info from TAW as always, although things are still as clear as mud.

Jeff, no clutch on this baby.

Weld I can. I also have a defender clutch tower/pedal here i was hoarding for an eventual "F this auto BS" moment on my D90. But I don't think this is the solution for me.

Dave, what you show there is a series brake pedal pad welded onto a clutch pedal? I have a defender clutch pedal/tower here and it looks just like my series IIA tower other than some spring mounts.

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The differences are still not entirely clear to me, but what I do know is I want a pedal/tower combo that hinges at the top and therefore pushes the MC pushrod towards the front of the vehicle and not back to the drive like a D90 clutch or series IIA brake.

So here is a series 3 tower and a defender tower (courtesy of TAW). It looks like the series one is a little more compact and everything would fit a little tighter to the bulkhead although it's hard to tell (ignoring the booster differences, just the towers).

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The other thing I am interested in is pedal ratio. It's not clear if they are all the same. The defender clutch and the SIIA brake pedals I have here have the same 5:1 ratio.

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If one combo has a greater ratio I think I'd prefer that, but suspect they are all the same. I could of course move the pad lower to get more leverage

Thoughts? My main goal is to try make all the mods I can before galvy. If I have to try different combos later I am ok with it, I would just like to not have to go cutting my bulkhead. It seems enlarging the brake pedal hole is a given.
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  #9  
Old July 31st, 2013, 02:20 PM
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Sweet

Would you agree the series 3 one is more compact and would be better if the goal is to try avoid cutting the fender?

Do the pedals have the same ration? Ie. is the measurement from the center of the pad to the pushrod pivot the same as well as the end pivot to the pushrod?
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  #10  
Old July 31st, 2013, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cgalpin View Post
Sweet

Would you agree the series 3 one is more compact and would be better if the goal is to try avoid cutting the fender?

Do the pedals have the same ration? Ie. is the measurement from the center of the pad to the pushrod pivot the same as well as the end pivot to the pushrod?
Doesn't look like it. I don't think you want the S3 pedal tower and booster cz you are running with discs. The MC that fits the S3 booster is for drums. You really want the 50 style booster, the early 110 tower and the early 110 MC as we discussed.
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  #11  
Old July 31st, 2013, 03:04 PM
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Jeff any idea what vintage your defender tower is there?

Bill, does the early 110 tower have the same booster bolt pattern as the series 3, or different from both the series 3 and newer defender?
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  #12  
Old July 31st, 2013, 03:20 PM
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The SIII one the booster sits closer to the bulkhead to clear the series bonnet.

If you are going no booster, then it probably does not matter. If it were me, lazy me, I would go with an SIII stock set up and find some way to make vacuum.
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  #13  
Old July 31st, 2013, 03:31 PM
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I tend to agree except for one small issue which is I have to cut the fender or get a SIII top/inner if I do that. Vacuum is just another electric pump. I guess worth putting a feeler out to see if any decent SIII fenders are around.

The other thought is go defender which should allow fitting of smaller boosters later with drilling of the tower if necessary. I realize the way the boosters connect to the pedals differ too but I figure I can handle that sort of thing pretty easily.

I am still going to run the numbers to see what manual will give me but at this point I think enlarging the bulkhead hole for the brake tower is the same either route so that lets me figure the rest out a bit later
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  #14  
Old July 31st, 2013, 03:34 PM
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Running any vacuum booster you will have to trim the 2A wing. Running S3 booster and MC with disc brakes no bueno.
Using S3 inner wing and 50 series booster with 110 MC and Defender tower no trimming the wing.
Series booster on Defender tower is a wash as it is same diameter as 50 series booster and has less assist. Also no disc brake MC for series booster.
Or, use Bendix clone booster and MC with adapter plate. Can get 7 inch diameter booster, minimal trimming of wing.
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  #15  
Old July 31st, 2013, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSBriggs View Post

Why do you say that? Ive driven several disc'ed series truck with a S3 booster/master. Stopping was much better than the stock drums.

-Jeff
I have never driven one, but the disc brake conversion people all recommend SIII booster set up.
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  #16  
Old July 31st, 2013, 04:06 PM
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I just wouldn't use a MC designed for drums on discs. I'm no engineer. Maybe it's OK to do.
Keep in mind Charles' truck is electric. In addition to all this braking tech he has to also figure out the regen thing. Like how much pedal travel on the brakes engages regen, and at what speed, etc. Would regen engage with the activation of the brakes switch and how much will it modulate? In other words, when you jab the brakes, with a set of full batteries, would regen kick in or not? Very complex stuff to think about.
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  #17  
Old July 31st, 2013, 04:07 PM
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This is what I've got
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  #18  
Old July 31st, 2013, 05:10 PM
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Tom is hooking me up with a defender one so if anyone has a series 3 one they want to part with, let me know. I'll compare the damn things and make up my mind
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