WTB 110 with 300TDI or 200TDI - Defender Source
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  #1  
Old December 8th, 2017, 10:24 AM
ksc83
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Kevin Cronin
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WTB 110 with 300TDI or 200TDI

I'm looking to buy a Defender with either a 300tdi or 200tdi engine. I would like to find a 110 with 3 doors and hard top and manual tranny. If you happen to have a roll cage and the bumpers with the winch, even better. Budget is in the 20k range. Left hand drive would be great but RHD is fine. Would be willing to pay more for something that has had a good deal of restoration and customization work done to it.

Kevin
239-9one9-0132

I'm in Naples, FL but will fly anywhere in the states for the right one.

New to the forum but I am a serious buyer and not looking to waste anyone's time.
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  #2  
Old December 8th, 2017, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ksc83 View Post
I'm looking to buy a Defender with either a 300tdi or 200tdi engine. I would like to find a 110 with 3 doors and hard top and manual tranny. If you happen to have a roll cage and the bumpers with the winch, even better. Budget is in the 20k range. Left hand drive would be great but RHD is fine. Would be willing to pay more for something that has had a good deal of restoration and customization work done to it. Kevin 239-9one9-0132 I'm in Naples, FL but will fly anywhere in the states for the right one. New to the forum but I am a serious buyer and not looking to waste anyone's time.
Any interest in a low mileage Perentie? Power steering , new canvas, KLR turbo kit installed.
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  #3  
Old December 8th, 2017, 02:46 PM
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What about this ?

1992, Original 200 TDI, LHD, 17 K
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Old December 8th, 2017, 07:06 PM
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ksc83 - Have you ever driven a Defender? More specifically, have you driven a $20K Defender?

Hopefully you are going into this with eyes wide open.

Good luck.
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  #5  
Old December 8th, 2017, 07:18 PM
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I have not. Plenty of military hummers but not a Defender. Although I have been to Busch Gardens and went on the Rhino Rally ride which if memory serves me is supposed to be a Defender. At least a defender front end. It was jerky and rough which I figured is how a Defender rides. Would a $100k drive better than a $20k defender? I was under the impression the suspension and driving components were essentially the same across the board. no?
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  #6  
Old December 8th, 2017, 07:19 PM
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Yes the same.
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Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

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  #7  
Old December 8th, 2017, 07:21 PM
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ok. my thought is a $20k defender can become a 100k defender, it would just need money to be poured into it. I figure it is a good starting place, agreed?
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  #8  
Old December 8th, 2017, 08:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ksc83 View Post
Would a $100k drive better than a $20k defender?
No. Both ride like tractors.
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  #9  
Old December 8th, 2017, 08:59 PM
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Anything can become almost anything in the Land Rover realm.
When it comes to the Series and Defender Style vehicles (90, 110, 130), there are 2 types of people in this world, Land Rover people and non-Land Rover people.
There're are plenty of non-Land Rover people who own Land Rovers, but they in general have no real dedication to the Defender & Series marque.
In a lot of cases they are checkbook mechanics and can afford the 100K and up builds.
When the "high end build" breaks, they are clueless.
There are Land Rover people that pay shops to do the work, but in general majority do some or all of their own work and become more knowledgeable with each repair.
At a minimum, they ask the shops lots of questions, so they understand the reason for the work and what it takes to perform it.
They are generally very appreciative to the people they depend on, if they don't do all or some of their work.
Non-Land Rover people generally don't appreciate the work and just want it done, sometimes with a self centered approach and push for delivery dates.
Non-Land Rover people are usually glad to sell their vehicle and feel free when it's gone.
They are more satisfied with a new vehicle, like a 5 door jeep.
Land Rover people wave to each other in passing and sometimes stop to talk about their vehicles.
Non-Land Rover people generally don't wave or stop and chat.
Land Rover people don't generally ask what you do for a living, at least until they know you and then it's more of a curiosity to explain your persona.
Non-Land Rover people will generally judge you based on your profession.
Land Rover people are always Land Rover people, even if they have to get rid of their vehicle.
They even enjoy other Land Rover people and could go to a Land Rover meet without a Land Rover and "belong".
They often plan to get another Land Rover, even if they never are able to.
It is worth noting that real Land Rover people can own RR Classics, Disco Is and IIS, and even a P38 or a newer model.
Most of these owners would accept a Defender or Series into their fleet.
Non-Land Rover people generally don't go off-roading.
Land Rover people are all over the trails and drive all day for a trail ride.

You are the conductor of your own personal railroad.
I would suggest you buy your 20K 110 from Johan or elsewhere, then decide if you are a Land Rover owner or a non-Land Rover owner who is going to be more happy with a new jeep.
Get the manuals, try a repair or 2, go to some meets, camp out, cook outside, ride some trails and see if the lifestyle suits your character.
If you're not a real Land Rover owner, you can sell and get every penny back or perhaps more.
If you are a Land Rover owner, you'll ask yourself why you didn't attend a rally long before now, even if you are an experienced outdoorsman.
You don't have to have a 100K build with LS conversion to enjoy yourself.
We prepped and sold a 1983 LHD 110 5 door for under 50K and it was a nice original (except for a very fast bolt in bolt out Isuzu 2.8 liter 4JB1-T engine) vehicle that had AC, and rear disc brakes.
You can buy an upgrade without it being a fully built up puma dash, backup camera, dark charcoal grey, roll caged, and fancy wheeled ride.
There are some shops that will build you a pristine 110 and do a good job at it if you make the decision to go that route.
There are also plenty of other options for an upgrade.
We are building a Dormobile 110 as an example.

So, Kevin, is it Carpe Diem time?
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Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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  #10  
Old December 8th, 2017, 09:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
Anything can become almost anything in the Land Rover realm. When it comes to the Series and Defender Style vehicles (90, 110, 130), there are 2 types of people in this world, Land Rover people and non-Land Rover people. There're are plenty of non-Land Rover people who own Land Rovers, but they in general have no real dedication to the Defender & Series marque. In a lot of cases they are checkbook mechanics and can afford the 100K and up build ups. When the "high end build" breaks, they are clueless. There are Land Rover people that pay shops to do the work, but in general majority do some or all of their own work and become more knowledgeable with each repair. At a minimum, they ask the shops lots of questions, so they understand the reason for the work and what it takes to perform it. They are generally very appreciative to the people they depend on, if they don't do all or some of their work. Non-Land Rover people generally don't appreciate the work and just want it done, sometimes with a self centered approach and push for delivery dates. Non-Land Rover people are usually glad to sell their vehicle and feel free when it's gone. They are more satisfied with a new vehicle, like a 5 door jeep. Land Rover people are always Land Rover people, even if they have to get rid of their vehicle. They even enjoy other Land Rover people and could go to a Land Rover meet without a Land Rover and "belong". They often plan to get another Land Rover, even if they never are able to. It is worth noting that real Land Rover people can own RR Classics, Disco Is and IIS, and even a P38 or a newer model. Most of these owners would accept a Defender or Series into their fleet. Non-Land Rover people generally don't go off-roading. Land Rover people are all over the trails and drive all day for a trail ride. You are the conductor of your own personal railroad. I would suggest you buy your 20K 110 from Johan or elsewhere, then decide if you are a Land Rover owner or a non-Land Rover owner who is going to be more happy with a new jeep. Get the manuals, try a repair or 2, go to some meets, camp out, cook outside, ride some trails and see if the lifestyle suits your character. If you're not a real Land Rover owner, you can sell and get every penny back or perhaps more. If you are a Land Rover owner, you'll ask yourself why you didn't attend a rally long before now. You don't have to have a 100K build with LS conversion to enjoy yourself. We prepped and sold a 1983 LHD 110 5 door for under 50K and it was a nice original (except for a very fast bolt in bolt out Isuzu 2.8 liter 4JB1-T engine), AC, and rear disc breaks. You can buy an upgrade without it being a fully built up puma dash, backup camera, dark charcoal grey, roll caged, and fancy wheeled ride. There are some shops that will build you a pristine 110 and do a good job at it if you make the decision to go that route. Carpe Diem!
Well said my friend. And very true.
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  #11  
Old December 8th, 2017, 09:40 PM
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Hear, hear!
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  #12  
Old December 8th, 2017, 10:02 PM
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Robert The Davis gets my vote for post of the year!
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Old December 8th, 2017, 10:05 PM
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Robert The Davis gets my vote for post of the year!
Second
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  #14  
Old December 8th, 2017, 10:08 PM
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Good stuff from RD as usual.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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  #15  
Old December 8th, 2017, 10:34 PM
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Nicely put. I appreciate the post. While I would love to be a Land Rover person, I cannot pledge an allegiance without entering the world. I do not think I'll ever be a non Land Rover person to the extent that it seems like non Land Rover people are generally more influenced by appearance and the ability to have things on demand and to their exact liking. Land Rover or not, I'll still be polite to all and treat everyone equally.

For me, I am looking to get into a new lifestyle and enter it modestly. I have a tendency of over purchasing and ending up with something extremely expensive to find myself side by side with guys who spent a fraction and are having an equal amount of fun. For example, I have a rifle that was over $20k and I've been out shot by guys with rifles that were under $2k. We both are enjoying the same thing and in the same place, he just has a lot more money for beers afterwards. I'd like to step into this world a little different from the past. The guy with the 100k defender or the guy with the 8k defender will both make it to the top of the mountain and enjoy the same views from their tent, one will just have spent more. The goal is to start small, see how I like it. If I like it, I'll either take the 20k defender and improve it, or store that one and find something that is closer to what I want, even if it requires putting it together myself.

I will say that I've been on a lot of forums and in just one day, I've found the Defender group to be an extremely helpful and kind group. I've had guys share a ton of advice and help guide me. Not what you would normally expect but so far, I think that even if I decide I don't enjoy driving a tractor, I'll still enjoy being around people who are so generous and open with their time and knowledge. Let's hope I fancy it because I'm looking forward to learning more from everyone here.

------ Follow up post added December 8th, 2017 09:39 PM ------

I will ask one question. I have noticed a lot of mention was to the 20k number I put up. Is that not a reasonable amount for what I am looking for. As I mentioned, I'm new. I can only toss out an amount and a desire and see what the reception is like. I also based that amount on the very nice 110 that duhmingus recently sold.
http://www.defendersource.com/forum/...di-116457.html
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  #16  
Old December 8th, 2017, 10:51 PM
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You had your real answer to the cautious question of what I should buy before you asked it.
Johan has the honest reputation that's spotless and usually doesn't pimp as buyers come to him.
He is good people and many members here have bought vehicles from him.
Value of vehicle per dollar is on the high end compared to many other sellers.
I think he chimed in as a matter of being courteous, not because he needed to push a sale.
Quote from post 9: "I would suggest you buy your 20K 110 from Johan".
Correction, he only wants 17...
Sell an expensive gun and enjoy the fun?
So, Kevin, is it Carpe Diem time?
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Uncle "Richard" Douglas has a Land Rover with big wheels that never gets stuck... until he breaks something so it won't go. Uncle Douglas always breaks something. - Anna Crowther at the Conclave 2012 (AKA Carburetor Neck)

"What's with this death wobble, Uncle Douglas, I can't keep it in 1 lane?"
UD: "Just Power through it man!"
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  #17  
Old December 9th, 2017, 12:09 AM
fartsinpublic
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Spot on.

That's why despite a hiatus of right around a decade, I've returned to the fold and joined up here at this sophisticated forum (back in the dark ages of the internet, there was an email-based mailing list that a bunch of folks were on. It was literally so primitive that if anyone went on vacation and turned on an "out of office" auto-reply, it would literally start an endless loop and literally bombard the rest of us. LOL.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
Anything can become almost anything in the Land Rover realm.
Which is another way of saying "buyer beware", particularly with say a "1979 Defender 90" or "1990 NAS Defender 110". Threads and advice abound. Robert's advice lower down in his post about where to get one is echoed across this forum, for good reason.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
Land Rover people wave to each other in passing and sometimes stop to talk about their vehicles.
Even when I was Rover-less, I'd stop and talk to LROs with honest trucks... more often than not, we had a common friend, or had a forum or parts vendor friend in common.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
Non-Land Rover people generally don't wave or stop and chat.
They're too much in a hurry to get to the car detailer so the Wet Look Tire Gloss can get reapplied to their 20" Kahn Rims/low-profile tires...

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
Land Rover people don't generally ask what you do for a living, at least until they know you and then it's more of a curiosity to explain your persona.
We are also aware that each of us is just as quirky as the next, and accepting of it. Some of us are LHD, some RHD folks, some spell it Land–Rover, other use Land Rover without the dash...some are coil spring fans, some like those ox-cart-spring-things, and some run grease in our hubs like we are supposed to, and other won't admit they're simply wrong to run oil in their hubs. We are all still LROs...

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdavisinva View Post
Land Rover people are always Land Rover people, even if they have to get rid of their vehicle.
'nuff said right there...

An anecdote from my LR-drought years that explains what Robert mentioned about Land-Rover people...it isn't owning one, driving one or being seen in one. There's just something about Land-Rover people that takes root after owning and appreciating the vehicles and their caretakers...

When my son was little, he asked me why I exited the highway and doubled back to help someone with a Defender that was stranded...he was about 5 years old and we were on the way home after school. That day, I was late getting off the jobsite, still in my boots and high-viz gear, and I picked him up in the work truck...an 18,000 GVWR 2002 Chevy Dually Flatbed, which was loaded with black pipe and a welder-generator, and often towing a trailer with a fork lift on it. (Yeah, not your typical school-pickup-parade-silver-Honda-Odyssey, but pretty normal for a journeyman pipefitter. My kid knows that when he hears the back-up alarm, it isn't mom picking him up that day. Beep-beep-beep-beep...)

We doubled back to a D90 that was parked, hazards on. Cranked, but no start. Turns out a fuel pump relay had blown. Having owned a Defender and been stranded by that same thing years ago, I knew that there was a non-essential relay in the truck that would likely work, and a few minutes later, we had ignition. I was down one headlight "voltage drop/direct to battery" relay, but it was from my high-beams*, but at least they were driving and not stranded on the side of the road.

My kid has grown up hearing "We help people, that's what we do..." and seen it in action long enough to know that when I call him to come join me on an adventure, it usually involves helping someone get their jalopy home, or swap a diff, or get that half-shaft remnant out of the axle, or simply return a borrowed welder or left-handed torque wrench.

We are now getting back into LRs. Just bought a ROW truck and planning a x-country drive during his school break. It will be nothing short of an adventure and another LR-learning-experience.

Have wrenches (metric, imperial and whitworth), will travel.

Maybe with a few relays and a AAA card in the seatbox bin, as well.

It is absolutely
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Carpe Diem time
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  #18  
Old December 9th, 2017, 12:38 AM
fartsinpublic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ksc83 View Post
I have noticed a lot of mention was to the 20k number I put up. Is that not a reasonable amount for what I am looking for.
The $20k number is reasonable*...it is what you're expecting to get for that amount.

Think super basic, like someone put a SUV body on a Massey Ferguson tractor, and tried their best to make the panels line up decent.

If there's a feature you think is missing, or that can be done better (without adding complexity, cost or electronics) it probably isn't essential to the vehicle, hence, it is not there or it exists in its most basic form.

See Exhibit A: lever-operated dash vents.

On the flip side, Land–Rovers have features and options that even a modern Land Cruiser or Jeep have yet to adopt:

- When it rains, there's a steady drip on your pants leg, just to let you know to be careful since you may not know it is raining, and that the roads are wet. Think: "feature, not problem"

- The windshield washer jet only works effectively below 45mph. You shouldn't be driving faster than that when you need to use your wipers. Doh! feature, not problem.

- These Lucas turn signals are dim and tend to flash erratically (like a US Congressman?) but they must emit radioactive photon beams that cause gaps in traffic to open up so one can merge or change lanes in your slow 110 (remember, $20k truck here). It is simply amazing how they work: By the 5th flash, there's usually enough space for me to move over... and in some cases, if a gap hasn't quite opened up (some cars/drivers are apparently not equipped to recognize the indicator flashing) certainly by the 7th or 8th yellow flash as my truck starts moving into the other lane, guess what? The space is suddenly there. Sometimes they even honk to acknowledge that the space is large enough and for me to proceed.

- The rear crossmember on a $20k truck is usually a wide expanse of black steel, and the pintle hitch is a wee bit menacing. It just says "stay back" or "your hood will lose" to that person who honked and "waved" while making space if they then try to draft closely in an effort to save gas.

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  #19  
Old December 9th, 2017, 01:19 AM
ksc83
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Oh I see. Yes. I should have also mentioned.... I’m looking for basically. The less the better. Manual everything. I want as basic as it gets. The reason I’m looking for a diesel defender is the fact that it is a rugged off road capable vehicle with a “one wire” motor that if something like an EMP was to occur, and the starter or battery happen to die, it could still be started with a push start. Sure, lane assist and AC and one touch roll down windows are great features but they are also features that break and when they break, you’re spending an arm and a leg and countless headaches dealing with the problem. Manual windows. Manual transmission. And a solid motor on a strong chassis. Those are the main things I’m looking for.
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  #20  
Old December 9th, 2017, 03:51 AM
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Jeez, my three sentences generated some interesting responses.

The reason I asked the question stems from a converstion River Mike and I had at his shop over coffee a while back. This is before I had ever conducted any business with him.

As I recall, he stated that he wished that every new-to-Defender buyer he had would come and drive a truck for a day, as a form of expectation management. He sells trucks from 8K to big money, and when someone buys a 300Tdi beach runner with Raptor liner, leather seats, Puma bits upgrades, etc, and it proceedes to drip a spot of oil, or gets uncomfortably hot in the summer, he would get calls from customers. These were customers who did not “get” Land Rover.

There are quite a few S. FL members here. Make contact, go drive one. Call Stephen at Safari HP and go for a shop visit to see the trucks from old and ratty to completely rebuilt. Fly up and see Johan. Go to RiverMikes and have a week in Amsterdam! You will either fall in love or feel “meh..”.

Yesterday I turned the key to off to shut off one of my trucks. Kept running, even with key out. To me, kinda a pain in the ass, but also an opportunity to learn about CAV IP fuel solenoids! And then the hunt to find a new one, with the option of paying $250(!) to a well-known US vendor or $18 to a UK vendor for the same part.

There are some very good points in this thread. Consider them all. I fully agree with 200/300, as I am not a LS in a Defender fan. I appreciate them, think the engineering and performance is cool, but just not what I am in to.

My personal recommendations? Buy a truck and drive it till it fails. Fix it and keep driving. Do not start pulling apart or modifying until you really know the truck. Do a lot of your own work. Read manuals for fun. Study the MicroCAT. Read build threads.

Other personal point of view items:
- Get Puma doors. No brainer. Rusty doors suck, leak, look bad, and are rarely repaired to last. If RHD you likely need power windows - bank, coffee, mailbox.
- Ensure a solid bulkhead. Not “solid bulkhead” text in an ad, but have seller pull off dash end pieces, and crash pad. Look for rust around windscreen hinges and in footwells. Hell, just count on buying a new or good condition bulkhead, get it galvanised, and replace it! Can be done with basic hand tools.
- make sure chassis either rust free or well repaired. Rear crossmember and outriggers are common fail points.
- You live in S. FL. It is basically a swamp. If you want to drive this other than NOV-MAR, get AC. If you have a wife or girlfriend, get AC. If you want to not have to carry rags and wipe the condensation off the windows when driving in the rain, get AC. Mainly trucks out of southern Europe.
- The water ingress manual is also required reading.

But most of all, have fun and welcome to the brotherhood/insanity/dirty fingernails.
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