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  #41  
Old June 30th, 2014, 10:16 PM
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In general I would not recommend leasing - and it is almost always a losing proposition economically. However in this case my wife has decided she wants the ease of rotating thru vehicles every few years, and frankly I prefer her driving a car I don't own.

The most frustrating part is that even buying it thru Richmond is a worse deal than other dealers, but that is the only reasonably local place for service. Frustrating.

For what it's worth, both the lease and finance options provided by Porsche are far better than LR.
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  #42  
Old June 30th, 2014, 10:18 PM
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I don't know much about the sales side of things, but isn't leasing not really a good deal in general? I always thought it was much better to buy.
Leasing can be good, just depends on the programs. Land Rover's money factors are up there right now as supply is low and demand is high. If you do a general conversion from a money factor to what the interest is you can be paying up to 7.5% for a Range Rover. As a comparison for some Jaguar's with the same bank they buy it down to as little as .24%.
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  #43  
Old June 30th, 2014, 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by bonefish4 View Post
In general I would not recommend leasing - and it is almost always a losing proposition economically. However in this case my wife has decided she wants the ease of rotating thru vehicles every few years, and frankly I prefer her driving a car I don't own.

The most frustrating part is that even buying it thru Richmond is a worse deal than other dealers, but that is the only reasonably local place for service. Frustrating.

For what it's worth, both the lease and finance options provided by Porsche are far better than LR.
So you went to LR Richmond and chose the most expensive LR4 ever created. An anniversary special edition, then you complain the lease is too high, duh.
Do not lease any LR4 right now. Leasing, money factors, residuals, cash incentives are all based on total sales, supply, and demand. As stated above right now "everybody" wants a LR and supply is at an all time low.
Of course Porsche has a "better " rate and deal on the Cayenne, they will sell around 25k to 30k Cayennes this year. LR is importing roughly 6500 LR4's. That's why you buy. Interest rates are stupid low and the LR4 will hold its value far better than any of the other vehicles you mentioned. Yes, you can buy a lux package HSE for around $61k plus taxes.
As for the payment yes it's a mortgage but 5 years. The math is pretty simple $60,000 car / 60 months = $1000 per month. And of course you have taxes and interest.
One buys any LR product because you want it not because it's the best deal. That goes for new or a 25 year old clapped out Defender!
Jaguar is a great example. As someone said the leases are pretty cheap, there are cash incentives, yet people walk by them everyday to buy a RR.
Hey if LR Richmond is being arrogant or whatever then shop around for sure. But if they just won't negotiate the deal you may want that's just a business decision based on inventory etc. not being arrogant or uncooperative. I hope you get an LR4 because they are great vehicles.
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  #44  
Old June 30th, 2014, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by bonefish4 View Post

The most frustrating part is that even buying it thru Richmond is a worse deal than other dealers, but that is the only reasonably local place for service. Frustrating.
Unfortunately we are a one price dealer. Bigger dealers also get more lease turn ins and are more easily able to have lower prices on most used cars. You won't be treated badly in the service department if you didn't buy from us, you just won't get the pickup service.
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  #45  
Old June 30th, 2014, 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted by discotdi View Post
they will sell around 25k to 30k Cayennes this year. LR is importing roughly 6500 LR4's.
Wow - I would have thought those figures would be flipped.

I've driven my sis-in-laws LR4 a few times. Really nice rig and has plenty of juice when the throttle goes down. Like was said, it's a good mix of power, handling, utility and size. The only down fall according to them is the fuel mileage (along with a small tank), going thru brakes and the post warranty service costs.

Why not buy a CPO? I hate getting new cars having kids and dogs. They snot up interiors faster than hauling anything else including scrap to the junk yard.
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  #46  
Old July 1st, 2014, 06:06 AM
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Leasing = renting
Nothing to show for it in the end...
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  #47  
Old July 1st, 2014, 09:19 AM
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Leasing = renting Nothing to show for it in the end...
X2. Have never leased, only ever bought., Gone through five vehicles in 27 years. One of them traded for a bigger family style vehicle. One rusted out. The D1 rusted out after 14 years but it's running gear lives on in Nigel. The last two we still use as DD and have 285k between them. $130k spent on new cars so about $5k a year. Ouch never thought of it like that.

Btw a local garage is selling a 2006 LR3 69k asking $16k.

If I was looking, that could be an interesting vehicle......
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  #48  
Old July 1st, 2014, 09:52 AM
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I didn't choose the most expensive model - I simply asked for one with a light interior and they told me that was the next one coming in, and quoted it accordingly. It is also worth pointing out that if the demand were as great as suggested, they would build more of them. My belief is that LR doesn't want to stick dealers with 3 year old $45k trucks that they have to try to find a market for, particularly with a major update coming next year (not to mention fuel economy that will make it hard for many to justify as the EPA continues to roll out their increasingly stringent CAFE standards).




Quote:
Originally Posted by discotdi View Post
So you went to LR Richmond and chose the most expensive LR4 ever created. An anniversary special edition, then you complain the lease is too high, duh.
Do not lease any LR4 right now. Leasing, money factors, residuals, cash incentives are all based on total sales, supply, and demand. As stated above right now "everybody" wants a LR and supply is at an all time low.
Of course Porsche has a "better " rate and deal on the Cayenne, they will sell around 25k to 30k Cayennes this year. LR is importing roughly 6500 LR4's. That's why you buy. Interest rates are stupid low and the LR4 will hold its value far better than any of the other vehicles you mentioned. Yes, you can buy a lux package HSE for around $61k plus taxes.
As for the payment yes it's a mortgage but 5 years. The math is pretty simple $60,000 car / 60 months = $1000 per month. And of course you have taxes and interest.
One buys any LR product because you want it not because it's the best deal. That goes for new or a 25 year old clapped out Defender!
Jaguar is a great example. As someone said the leases are pretty cheap, there are cash incentives, yet people walk by them everyday to buy a RR.
Hey if LR Richmond is being arrogant or whatever then shop around for sure. But if they just won't negotiate the deal you may want that's just a business decision based on inventory etc. not being arrogant or uncooperative. I hope you get an LR4 because they are great vehicles.
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  #49  
Old July 1st, 2014, 02:36 PM
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[QUOTE=bonefish4;542042]I didn't choose the most expensive model - I simply asked for one with a light interior and they told me that was the next one coming in, and quoted it accordingly. It is also worth pointing out that if the demand were as great as suggested, they would build more of them. My belief is that LR doesn't want to stick dealers with 3 year old $45k trucks that they have to try to find a market for, particularly with a major update coming next year (not to mention fuel economy that will make it hard for many to justify as the EPA continues to roll out their increasingly stringent CAFE standards).

Supply is low as they cannot get enough 3.0 sc motors and they seem to be pushing them over to the higher profit making Range Rover's. This would be better for LR dealers if we actually had Range Rover's to show for it. They are also now low on Jaguars with the same engine.
They say they are running three shifts trying to get supply up but keep in mind global demand (and profits) have also shifter (ie China)

To say leasing doesn't make sense doesn't always make sense. It depends on programs, I usually tell people a few things.
Add up the lease payments plus the residual value, tax etc and compare to if you just buy it and say finance for five years. If they are close, I would rather the bank take the risk of owning the car for the initial few years. Lets say you get into an accident and now car fax shows a accident, it is going to make your car worth less, how much depends but even a scratch if reported will show as a accident an devalue your car by as much as 20% depending on who you ask.
Also high mileage drivers are sometimes better leasing and just prepaying the miles as you are not trying to unload a high mileage car that is only a few years old.
This being said I bought our last two Sports and did well and will buy a 14 vs lease based on current programs but lease my Jaguar as the money was cheap and resale is not as high.
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  #50  
Old July 1st, 2014, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by bonefish4 View Post
I didn't choose the most expensive model - I simply asked for one with a light interior and they told me that was the next one coming in, and quoted it accordingly. It is also worth pointing out that if the demand were as great as suggested, they would build more of them. My belief is that LR doesn't want to stick dealers with 3 year old $45k trucks that they have to try to find a market for, particularly with a major update coming next year (not to mention fuel economy that will make it hard for many to justify as the EPA continues to roll out their increasingly stringent CAFE standards).
Your partly right for sure. The CAFE standards are one reason LR has chosen to sell fewer LR4's and use the V6 engines for the all new Sport and RR. Which are hugely popular and get better fuel economy.
A new LR4 called Discovery will probably arrive in Q1 of 2016. Demand does currently outstrip supply. And LR is building cars as fast as possible.
Unfortunately it looks like there are only about 7 LR4 models available in VA right now and they all have dark interior.
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  #51  
Old July 1st, 2014, 04:13 PM
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You are partly right.
North America's supply is limited because Land Rover makes bigger profits shipping to China.
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  #52  
Old July 1st, 2014, 05:08 PM
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Brian. Why if you are in Greenport, NY are you talking to Land Rover Richmond ?
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  #53  
Old July 1st, 2014, 08:35 PM
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Brian. Why if you are in Greenport, NY are you talking to Land Rover Richmond ?
Because I work there and I'm as cool as it gets. Anyone that wants to be cool must associate themselves with me.
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  #54  
Old July 1st, 2014, 08:45 PM
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Because I work there and I'm as cool as it gets. Anyone that wants to be cool must associate themselves with me.
But Jeff tells me you like cats???
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Old July 1st, 2014, 08:57 PM
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You are partly right.
North America's supply is limited because Land Rover makes bigger profits shipping to China.
Yep that's part of the problem too. LR is stretched too thin. Factory opening in China in 2016 I think.
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  #56  
Old July 1st, 2014, 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Jymmiejamz View Post
Because I work there and I'm as cool as it gets. Anyone that wants to be cool must associate themselves with me.
Thought you are skipping up to Manhattan to work in a closed dealership ?
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  #57  
Old July 1st, 2014, 09:34 PM
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Thought you are skipping up to Manhattan to work in a closed dealership ?
They have to shut it down since I'm coming. They aren't ready for me.
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  #58  
Old July 2nd, 2014, 12:14 PM
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Wait until the differentials go on the LR4...of course, if you're leasing then it's not your problem. It's common on the LR3s, and i'm told the LR4s also. Of course, LR won't admit it. Some of the RRs have the same problem. When they change the diff fluid at the Richmond dealership they have been including some kind of additive. They claim to have significantly reduced the occurence of the problem.
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  #59  
Old July 2nd, 2014, 12:20 PM
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Wait until the differentials go on the LR4...of course, if you're leasing then it's not your problem. It's common on the LR3s, and i'm told the LR4s also. Of course, LR won't admit it. Some of the RRs have the same problem. When they change the diff fluid at the Richmond dealership they have been including some kind of additive. They claim to have significantly reduced the occurence of the problem.
I don't think I've ever seen an LR4 diff fail. I've also never seen a '06+ RR diff fail. I'm pretty sure the diffs have been redesigned. When we do a 75k service we also change the diff fluids, which may be contributing to their longer life.
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  #60  
Old July 2nd, 2014, 12:23 PM
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That's great. Hopefully the diffs their putting on the LR3s when they fail are the fixed models. I have a friend at work who has a RR...somewhere around '06...and the diff failed. Very low mileage vehicle too.

------ Follow up post added July 2nd, 2014 12:30 PM ------

Aside from the diffs, which were covered under my extented warranty, it's been a great truck.
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